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Total Control: FM21


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il y a 7 minutes, VanGaal a dit :

I finished my first season with Manchester United using the Panneton0 ball.
What a great tactic! Ive tested different high position tactics and this one is by far the best.
Won almost everything with outstanding stats and some wonderful goals.
Only problem I faced was against 3CDs tactics before I decided to use different tactics against these teams.
I would like to know if anyone tested different roles.

Awesome results!!

Against 3CDs, I'd recommend to use @StewG version of the tactic (see his post on May 8th farther up this thread). It uses the flanks a little more by pushing the IWB to CWB roles so you can take advantage of the narrower defensive line. Slightly lower possession overall w/r to the base tactic, but absolutely great results! Credits for StewG for those tweaks :)

Enjoy!

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4 minutes ago, Panneton0 said:

Awesome results!!

Against 3CDs, I'd recommend to use @StewG version of the tactic (see his post on May 8th farther up this thread). It uses the flanks a little more by pushing the IWB to CWB roles so you can take advantage of the narrower defensive line. Slightly lower possession overall w/r to the base tactic, but absolutely great results! Credits for StewG for those tweaks :)

Enjoy!

I saw his version
Apparently he always plays CWB which might make finding suitable players easier.
I usually change only the mentality during a match unless I´m 2 goals behind which is a rare situation. In this case I shift the position of the FBs and one of the IFs to force more chances.
Is there any other role combination for the DM/CM?
Would a combination of DLP and  B2B make sense ?

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If you have the players for it it's worth trying.

My guess though would be that DLP will naturally try more long passes to "create" chances, which may isolate your players up front. And B2B as MC may leave lost balls in the middle since I usually try to give that player as little movement as possible and let my AMC gravitate around.

If you set your MC to B2B, my first instinct would be to set your AMC individual settings to "hold position" instead of "Road from position" to switch the dynamic. That way, you'll keep one midfield anchor and one midfield with constant movements.

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So basically switching roles between the CM and AMC
This might help in some match ups
I tried playing with DLP / BBM / MEZ  with both CDs set as BPDs in difficult matches like Liverpool away and still managed to keep position but it seemed a bit more direct as you mentioned.
 

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9 hours ago, Panneton0 said:

Awesome results!!

Against 3CDs, I'd recommend to use @StewG version of the tactic (see his post on May 8th farther up this thread). It uses the flanks a little more by pushing the IWB to CWB roles so you can take advantage of the narrower defensive line. Slightly lower possession overall w/r to the base tactic, but absolutely great results! Credits for StewG for those tweaks :)

Enjoy!

I'm still going great, have just beat Liverpool home and away and hope to win that elusive first Champions League this season. :)

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  • 3 weeks later...
Il 8/5/2021 in 12:47 , StewG ha scritto:

Here you go. Start most games with Positive, use Attack against weak opponents or when you need a goal and Waste Time to see out games.

When away to big teams I suggest starting with a Cautious mentality depending on who you are playing as (not the waste time tactic just change mentality from Positive to Cautious), as Rangers this has got me away wins at Inter, Dortmund, PSG and Bayern to name just a few.

The changes I have made to the original tactic is adding Complete Wing Backs with Overlap instead of Under, changing to a Standard Defensive Line which has cut down on conceding on the counter or long balls over the top and I added different set pieces.

Enjoy, i hope it works for you. All credit for the original goes to Panneton0.

Waste Time.fmf 43 kb  · 164 downloads Attack.fmf 43 kb  · 181 downloads Positive.fmf 43 kb  · 188 downloads

hi guys, the download is blocked by chrome, how can i download it?

 

Edit: resolved

Edited by Stoga
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  • 4 weeks later...

@Panneton0 thank you! You've achieved something I've been trying since FM19! Seeing nice wins with +800 passes or even +1000 passes is wonderful!

 

I've tried with Milan and got the Serie A with 87 points (expected 5th if I remember correctly) in first season. In the second with a more adapted squad to the tactical needs I'm doing even better...

 

I've also tried to convert the tactic to a 343 diamond (one full back as CB cover in the midle and other full back to the RCM as OAD with the same PIs as the LCM) and it's doing well also! I use it in some escenarios, like when I face parked buses.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Funny you post this now, I won my first Champions League with Boston Utd just today!

Going all the way from Vanarama North to EPL and winning Champion's League is my goal every edition. And winning it with my own Total Control tactic while dominating the possession against every Giant is the cherry on top!

I will start working on a FM22 version eventually, but I haven't even bought it yet :P

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12 hours ago, Panneton0 said:

Funny you post this now, I won my first Champions League with Boston Utd just today!

Going all the way from Vanarama North to EPL and winning Champion's League is my goal every edition. And winning it with my own Total Control tactic while dominating the possession against every Giant is the cherry on top!

I will start working on a FM22 version eventually, but I haven't even bought it yet :P

I won the Europa League and then was beaten finalist in the Champions League twice and The World Cup with Scotland over the space of three seasons. So very glad to get them both over the line before moving to 22 :D

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hace 2 horas, kalokalitokalo dijo:

Yesterday I tested in holidays with Atletico de Madrid and result was 2nd position but only 65 goals scored. Something like 28 thousand passes.

Right now I'm testing it with a small tweak: Pressing Forward support instead of F9.

Test done: 85 points, +80 goals scored and low 20s goals against. 27.800 passes.

Won super cup (against madrid and barcelona), and eliminated in CL against liverpool in 1/4 with a 6-0 defeat.

 

As everything was left to Assistant, Suarez was sold to PSG in January  (by that time 20 matches and 14 goals)

Edited by kalokalitokalo
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Il y a 5 heures, kalokalitokalo a dit :

Test done: 85 points, +80 goals scored and low 20s goals against. 27.800 passes.

Won super cup (against madrid and barcelona), and eliminated in CL against liverpool in 1/4 with a 6-0 defeat.

 

As everything was left to Assistant, Suarez was sold to PSG in January  (by that time 20 matches and 14 goals)

Just to be sure, are you testing it on FM21 or FM22? :)

Thanks for sharing, by the way!

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I loved this tactic in FM21 so have done a couple of holiday tests before I actually invest some time into the game.

First test was with Brentford as they have possession play as a club vision.

Didn't do too badly.

10th position (predicted 18th )

Most passes completed and joint 1st pass accuracy.

4th in total possession.

1107548108_BrentfordPlayerStats.png.6210ce67c38c562a6790b5007f44223c.png

619628939_BrentfordTable.png.a7db63fcca4b02cc2f007d167f815306.png

523287976_Pass.png.babba2b2213eb7cc7b53fe4b7c8d19ff.png938664765_PossessionTable.png.6ef52c5bf4c452f707893c6de2575de0.png1349061494_TotalPasses.png.10403ea6ff01cf84a1709a78d1bb80fd.png

I also did a quick test with Ajax

Finished 2nd (predicted 1st)

Dominated possession, passes and accuracy again.

Ajax were very good defensively as you'd expect.

The only issue seems to be chance creation and conversion. Obviously Brentford are not expected to created hundreds of chances, but with Ajax we were a little way down the table for chances created, clear cut chances and chance conversion.

1451600615_AjaxStats2.png.8a68d0412c1b34418be266f76ccd189a.png

1407811860_AjaxStats.thumb.png.d233248d176fda03fe69cf2b74151b44.png

 

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I have changed a little bit my approach at the moment.

I'm using v21.3 as a basis (and as primarily trained tactic). I also create 2 copies of the tactic and simply switch one to "attacking" and the other one to "cautious". With that set up, I usually start my games with the basic 21.3 (positive). If I'm against a team that I feel will park the bus (mainly lower division teams, or weaker teams, or even big teams later in the season when I've proven to be a threat), then I'll START the game with the Attacking mindset. If I'm away, against a team that I expect to break my possession more often, then I START with the cautious mentality. I then switch between those 3 mentalities as I see fit.

The attacking mentality also, by default, use the flanks a little more so it is also actually better than the default "positive" mindset for teams that lack technical skills to keep possession in midfield.

I also avoid using the "cautious" mindset even when I'm in the lead. I stay positive or even attacking. If it worked, it will work even better when they'll start opening up their game.

Finally, I go Very Attacking if I'm losing or even tied in the last 10-15 minutes.

It is important to have your 3 tactics slots with the basic, "attacking" and "cautious" versions so that you can switch freely between them with a similar "familiarity" :)

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Been using this in my PSV save on the fm22 beta because it was my favourite tactic on fm21, seems to work still I’ve won the league back to back with it quite comfortably overthrowing Ajax as the number 1 Dutch team. Seems to have a little less possession than on fm21 with 28000+ passing success still though, trying to work out how I can up the possession still

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  • 2 weeks later...

First season with Arsenal since the full game has been released, using this tactic I won the league only losing one match to Liverpool away. As you can see the passing numbers are phenomenal but the possession numbers have dropped a little, might be a match engine issue because I’m not sure how I can make that many more passes than everyone while having the ball less than a few teams.F910F8B5-BBCA-4865-9E74-244E7E22AA7A.thumb.jpeg.b16e695fdad404dae9b496afeefe82eb.jpegF4D4C5EB-598E-4B46-AE3A-FD111E0783F9.thumb.jpeg.3e6b0da6ab42a5ca4c1d07ec24d6803c.jpegC75D1AE5-7903-43A5-8CCA-A135F1CA2570.thumb.jpeg.0fe36e1da1337c21c9c698883911b898.jpeg

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I just got the game and trying to figure out how to get a TotalControl tactic with the new engine.

Without changing anything, I noticed that possession remains broadly the same, but with many more passes, as you pointed out. This seems to be because the new ME encourages slightly more backward passes, and central defenders leave less spaces for the F9 to get the ball. This leads to this kind of possession map:
image.png.4c7871656c1d06d5f5f0445cfff72dfe.png

By comparison to this kind of possession map on FM21:
image.png.0af34c1ae4b8f0ad539a0b290a3ae26d.png

This is obviously partly due to me not having the same players, but the difference is so huge that the ME definitely changed.

In our case, this means 2 things:
- Less xG opportunities

- More dangerous counterattacks because the opponent might get back control closer to your own goal

So I'll keep you guys posted whenever I find a way to get back on the undisputable winning ways of the TotalControl philosophy in this new opus of our favorite game! :)

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  • 2 weeks later...
 

I just got the game and trying to figure out how to get a TotalControl tactic with the new engine.

Without changing anything, I noticed that possession remains broadly the same, but with many more passes, as you pointed out. This seems to be because the new ME encourages slightly more backward passes, and central defenders leave less spaces for the F9 to get the ball. This leads to this kind of possession map:
image.png.4c7871656c1d06d5f5f0445cfff72dfe.png

By comparison to this kind of possession map on FM21:
image.png.0af34c1ae4b8f0ad539a0b290a3ae26d.png

This is obviously partly due to me not having the same players, but the difference is so huge that the ME definitely changed.

In our case, this means 2 things:
- Less xG opportunities

- More dangerous counterattacks because the opponent might get back control closer to your own goal

So I'll keep you guys posted whenever I find a way to get back on the undisputable winning ways of the TotalControl philosophy in this new opus of our favorite game! :)

Any news @Panneton0?

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il y a 53 minutes, PeacemakerBR a dit :

Any news @Panneton0?

Hey!

Currently running in the lower leagues of England and consequently using a very aggressive version of the tactic.

I'm not yet convinced of the overall style, but try it out! Probably way too aggressive for top-tier leagues though.

Let's say this is the beta version of the tactic for FM22 ;)

TotalControl_V22_1_0.fmf

Edited by Panneton0
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  • 2 weeks later...
Il y a 8 heures, PeacemakerBR a dit :

They are commenting on the SI forum that with the new ME, it might be possible to make a good tactic of high possession and real position game. Did you notice that, @Panneton0?

Haven't seen it. I have to say that I haven't really put much efforts yet in the new edition of the game, unfortunately :|

Do you have a specific link? I'm interested, obviously :D

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New version available.

Version 22.2.0 (yes, already the second one). The Total Control of FM21 did translate poorly into the new ME, with possession being much lower on the pitch. With some tweaks, the tactic now seem to produce attack-oriented possession again, with your team installing itself through quick passing in front of the opponent's defence.

Try it out! TotalControl22_2_0 at the bottom of the original post :)

Edited by Panneton0
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Since I'm never 100% satisfied with the tactic, I'm always working on the next version.

Currently working on a more punishing 22.3 version... But trying to make my players do what I want led me to a point where the structure does not seem to make any sense... and yet it is insanely effective.

So before releasing it, I will obviously test it a little more, see if my last games were not just a string of luck. But just a little sneak peak of what might come next, if it proves reliable.
image.png.30a76abbca5708ececb02988550b13fc.pngimage.png.7c8aeb1c69b66fc338845f70f2f674a1.pngimage.png.ff62541b5c23f68134dc5b59ca36b938.png

Heeheeheeeeee!

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9 minutos atrás, Panneton0 disse:

Since I'm never 100% satisfied with the tactic, I'm always working on the next version.

Currently working on a more punishing 22.3 version... But trying to make my players do what I want led me to a point where the structure does not seem to make any sense... and yet it is insanely effective.

So before releasing it, I will obviously test it a little more, see if my last games were not just a string of luck. But just a little sneak peak of what might come next, if it proves reliable.
image.png.30a76abbca5708ececb02988550b13fc.pngimage.png.7c8aeb1c69b66fc338845f70f2f674a1.pngimage.png.ff62541b5c23f68134dc5b59ca36b938.png

Heeheeheeeeee!

Nice! Looking forward to testing. Good job!

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Well... Performances declined very very rapidly after I posted that last update. Back to the drawing board! Both with underdogs and with top-tier teams, the tactic seem to provide amazing results early, and quick performance drops once the opponent starts to use counter attacks.

It's very difficult again this year to produce a strong TotalControl-type tactic with high possession, higher on the pitch, with attacking intent and natural positional play. I'm still working on it :P

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  • 1 month later...

Finally found a decent version for FM22! Good center-pitch possession, amazing results, beautiful football. True Total Control DNA.

Again, it's not game-engine-breaking. There are a lot of better tactics out there, but it's the most beautiful Control football I've managed in this edition. I've started a new thread for FM22 here:

 

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  • Panneton0 changed the title to Total Control: FM21

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