Wolfsburg 523

[Mena1999]

I use this tactic with Wolfsburg. For now, it is still being played, so I can't rate it exactly, but I'm looking for your opinion and maybe some suggestions to apply.

[n00bmaster69]

I see this a lot but I really don't know why people have defensive duties in midfield when playing a 5 at the back formation. You have essentially 5 players at the back so why would you add another defensive player to that?

[Mena1999]

20 minutes ago, n00bmaster69 said:

I see this a lot but I really don't know why people have defensive duties in midfield when playing a 5 at the back formation. You have essentially 5 players at the back so why would you add another defensive player to that?

And somehow it's my habit to put DLP on defend, and now you've just paid attention to it and I'll try with support duty on DLP. I also thought to put Mezzala instead of BBM, but I don't know if it will answer because on that side I have both CWB and AP on the lap that I sometimes put on IF support duty.

[n00bmaster69]

tbh I would not play Weghorst as a DLF. I would probably keep him closer to a TM on support then an attacking role. That way he'll get Brekelo into play. Keep the BBM but maybe consider switching the WB duties. I'd much prefer an attacking WB behind an IF as he cuts in and there will be space to attack. Not sure I'd have a double ball-playing defenders but that's just me.

Edited January 4, 2021 by Experienced Defender
inappropriate words

[Mena1999]

6 hours ago, n00bmaster69 said:

 I would probably keep him closer to a TM on support then an attacking role. That way he'll get Brekelo into play. Keep the BBM but maybe consider switching the WB duties. I'd much prefer an attacking WB behind an IF as he cuts in and there will be space to attack. Not sure I'd have a double ball playing defenders but that's just me.

 

Well, I even think of putting side central defenses on the CD, and in the middle to be BPD stopper or libero support, I use DLF attackers because I plan to buy Jack, and I have Arezo and Mandzukic in the team.

 

[Experienced Defender]

I know what I personally would change/tweak in your tactic. But changes would make sense only if you are not pleased with how the tactic works. Otherwise, why would you want to make any changes?

[Mena1999]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

I know what I personally would change/tweak in your tactic. But changes would make sense only if you are not pleased with how the tactic works. Otherwise, why would you want to make any changes?

Well, the team doesn't create a lot of quality chances, and so the goals themselves are missing. And I'm asking for some advice on what you would do with this tactic.

[Mena1999]

And the team does not have the consistency of good games

[Experienced Defender]

4 hours ago, Mena1999 said:

Well, the team doesn't create a lot of quality chances, and so the goals themselves are missing. And I'm asking for some advice on what you would do with this tactic.

Okay, here is my take based on my personal tactical approach:

- I would not use the CWB role in a non-narrow system, because I don't see the need for that when he has a partner on the flank

- I would not play an attacking wing-back without proper defensive cover in the midfield (referring to your partnership of CWB and BBM on the right)

- I definitely would not be anywhere near as aggressive out of possession (I prefer intelligent over aggressive defending and don't want my players to press and tackle around like headless chickens)

- I would not use extremely high tempo because I don't want to give possession away too cheaply without any tangible benefit

[Mena1999]

15 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Okay, here is my take based on my personal tactical approach:

- I would not use the CWB role in a non-narrow system, because I don't see the need for that when he has a partner on the flank

- I would not play an attacking wing-back without proper defensive cover in the midfield (referring to your partnership of CWB and BBM on the right)

- I definitely would not be anywhere near as aggressive out of possession (I prefer intelligent over aggressive defending and don't want my players to press and tackle around like headless chickens)

- I would not use extremely high tempo because I don't want to give possession away too cheaply without any tangible benefit

Okay, so you would slow down to "Higher", instead of the right CWB you would use WB, and WB would not be on attack duty but support or defend. Or you did something different from what I wrote.. 

15 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

- I definitely would not be anywhere near as aggressive out of possession (I prefer intelligent over aggressive defending and don't want my players to press and tackle around like headless chickens)

 

And this part is not clear to me. What do you mean more intelligent?

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, Mena1999 said:

Okay, so you would slow down to "Higher"

Yes. 

 

2 hours ago, Mena1999 said:

instead of the right CWB you would use WB, and WB would not be on attack duty but support or defend. Or you did something different from what I wrote

WB instead of CWB, but along with a couple tweaks elsewhere as well (including a replacement of the BBM with a different role). 

 

2 hours ago, Mena1999 said:

And this part is not clear to me. What do you mean more intelligent?

Creating defensive traps, rather than pressing like mad across the pitch. That's why I never play gegenpress btw.

[Mena1999]

54 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

WB instead of CWB, but along with a couple tweaks elsewhere as well (including a replacement of the BBM with a different role). 

What role do you mean? 

55 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Creating defensive traps, rather than pressing like mad across the pitch. That's why I never play gegenpress btw.

I really don't know what kind of defense you're talking about, I mean I'm not familiar with those defensive traps and how it's done, I've always pushed pressing.

[Mena1999]

I made a new tactic for next season

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Mena1999 said:

2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

WB instead of CWB, but along with a couple tweaks elsewhere as well (including a replacement of the BBM with a different role). 

What role do you mean? 

BWM on support duty or carrilero. 

[Experienced Defender]

42 minutes ago, Mena1999 said:

I made a new tactic for next season

Let's hope I am wrong, but I fear it's hardly going to work. Because you have a very gung-ho setup of roles and duties paired with possession-heavy team instructions. Which means that the tactic contains an obvious contradiction. Such tactics usually fail, but as I said - let's hope I am wrong.

[Mena1999]

19 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Let's hope I am wrong, but I fear it's hardly going to work. Because you have a very gung-ho setup of roles and duties paired with possession-heavy team instructions. Which means that the tactic contains an obvious contradiction. Such tactics usually fail, but as I said - let's hope I am wrong.

About this? 

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, Mena1999 said:

About this?

What? That's a third one already 

What happened with the previous one when you decided to create this latest one so quickly? 

[jc577]

17 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Creating defensive traps, rather than pressing like mad across the pitch. That's why I never play gegenpress btw.

How do you create these traps? Sorry if it's off-topic!

[Mena1999]

13 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

What? That's a third one already 

What happened with the previous one when you decided to create this latest one so quickly? 

Well, this last tactic has been with me since the beginning of the season, I made the first one together, the geggenpress variant and this one, and I didn't send this one at all. Before this one, I sent a tiki tak that I would use next season, but I brought certain players, so I will use the 4231 formation or even 424.

[PeeDub]

I am not a tactics master, but I would not use a mezzala or carrilero in a 5-2-3. Part of what they do is drift to the wings to provide lateral coverage and you already have quite a bit of lateral coverage, but not as much central solidity. I would say a B2B would be better than either of those, but a simple CM would also work. A BWM maybe. Possibly others. But I wouldn't use the MEZ/CAR roles in this case. 

[Experienced Defender]

9 hours ago, jc577 said:

How do you create these traps? Sorry if it's off-topic!

By letting the opposition enter my compact defensive block and then not letting them find an easy exit  

[Contexx]

I used this formation a couple of versions ago, with Hoffenheim, which were, when I took over, in disarray - underachieving squad and the previous manager used 352 so they had a load of wingbacks and no decent wingers, so decided to try it.  We ended up playing some great defensive football, which was ugly at times but very effective. As the team evolved the style improved but the foundation stayed the same - attacks mostly down the flanks, and a load of 1:0 wins. I managed to change things with inverted wingbacks later on and things got a bit more stylish, but that's another topic.

In FM, even when they're pushed to the wb slot, wingbacks tend to drop deep to join the rest of the defensive line. What you have, essentially, is a 5 defender formation.  This can be good defending if you set your roles right, and the wingbacks can absolutely wreak havoc, but the most important part is your midfield engine room - the center of the pitch, where you only have two players.  I personally used an MC(d) and a BWM(s) for a while, and switched the duties of the two from time to time, but had little luck with the deep lying playmaker as, unless he's amazing, there will just be too much of a burden on him. The two central midfielders in this formation need to cover a lot of ground and boss this area of the pitch, often against three opponents in the center of the pitch.  Yes there are three cenrterbacks behind them, but without either an AMC to drop deep or DMC to clean up the mess, a lot of the dirty work will be done in the center - defensively as well as linking the attack and midfield.

What worked for me were fast transitions to the wide men with the forward as either a holding pivot up the pitch (which is the case for Wolfsburg) or a counterattacking threat clearing up the space for the wingers to cut inside.  Against teams that push up, especially those with wide forwards, this is very difficult to cope against. A striker like Mandzhukic in with his mentals could be ideal for that.

I'm personally not a fan of both wide players on Attack, and considering the numbers you have on the wings, some variety wouldn't hurt.  If you have such a player, a wide AP with an overlapping wingback behind him and overloading IF (or even RMD) on the opposite flank is very hard to defend against. It almost creates a "pick and roll" situation to use a basketball term - get ready for 6.9 ratings for said AP and your wingback getting loads of assists, but it certainly works.

Finally if you really want to get adventurous, you could try a Libero. I must say it didn't work nearly as well for me as I had imagined, but that could be down to my lack of tactical knowledge than anything else.