My tactic is struggling to score

[tigerking]

I'd appreciate some advice on this tactic. I'm playing as Atalanta in the Serie A - we were projected to finish in the top half but missing CL spots, and that's just about where we are.

I watch all the games on Extended or Comprehensive highlights and I actually really like how we've played against the top teams. But we have a lot of trouble scoring in general, especially against bad teams. In the last 6 games, 4 were against bottom-5 teams and we managed a total of 1 goal.

We actually do produce quite a few half-chances, but my strikers never seem to put them away, and we don't get many clear cut chances. I'm generally happy with the play of my back 6 (my RB and DLP are playing amazingly, and the B2B and AP spots play pretty great too), but I haven't found the right front 3 combination to make it work. We suck in the air, so I want to play this fairly fluid system where we work the ball forwards with mostly short passes, and slip balls in to the front 3 running into any open space. But it seems like every possession ends in a bad pass turnover or a crappy cross that gets headed over goal. I'm generally happy with how the tactic looks out of possession & in transition.

Things that I've tried playing with:

• Work Ball Into Box - if I take this off, we get more crosses headed over goal, and less turnovers passing the ball around at the edge of the box.
• Overlap Left/Right - overlapping right helps a bit, I usually turn this on vs bad teams.
• Switching IF duties (AT/S) - haven't seen a significant difference here.
• Lowering the tempo - I really thought this would help, but it doesn't seem to. Neither does increasing it, as it seems to take overlaps and my AP out of the game more.
• FB roles - I've honestly never been able to really tell the difference between WB-S and FB-A.

Are there things you'd suggest to crank up the aggressiveness of this tactic, even if it means conceding more goals? (I'm currently allowing the least goals in the league, only 5 in 12 matches.) Or is a 4-3-3 primarily a defensive formation at its core? Another thing I'm thinking of doing is bumping my DLP and AP up a strata so it becomes a 4-2-3-1.

One thing I'd add: my wingers are mostly two-footed players, and most are better fits for IW/IF than Ws. Any tactic that requires wide wingers to dribble down the lines and cross would take at least 1-2 seasons to implement effectively, although if it's the WBs doing that I can work with it.

Edited January 1, 2021 by tigerking

[frukox]

3 hours ago, tigerking said:

I'd appreciate some advice on this tactic. I'm playing as Atalanta in the Serie A - we were projected to finish in the top half but missing CL spots, and that's just about where we are.

I watch all the games on Extended or Comprehensive highlights and I actually really like how we've played against the top teams. But we have a lot of trouble scoring in general, especially against bad teams. In the last 6 games, 4 were against bottom-5 teams and we managed a total of 1 goal.

We actually do produce quite a few half-chances, but my strikers never seem to put them away, and we don't get many clear cut chances. I'm generally happy with the play of my back 6 (my RB and DLP are playing amazingly, and the B2B and AP spots play pretty great too), but I haven't found the right front 3 combination to make it work. We suck in the air, so I want to play this fairly fluid system where we work the ball forwards with mostly short passes, and slip balls in to the front 3 running into any open space. But it seems like every possession ends in a bad pass turnover or a crappy cross that gets headed over goal. I'm generally happy with how the tactic looks out of possession & in transition.

Things that I've tried playing with:

• Work Ball Into Box - if I take this off, we get more crosses headed over goal, and less turnovers passing the ball around at the edge of the box.
• Overlap Left/Right - overlapping right helps a bit, I usually turn this on vs bad teams.
• Switching IF duties (AT/S) - haven't seen a significant difference here.
• Lowering the tempo - I really thought this would help, but it doesn't seem to. Neither does increasing it, as it seems to take overlaps and my AP out of the game more.
• FB roles - I've honestly never been able to really tell the difference between WB-S and FB-A.

Are there things you'd suggest to crank up the aggressiveness of this tactic, even if it means conceding more goals? (I'm currently allowing the least goals in the league, only 5 in 12 matches.) Or is a 4-3-3 primarily a defensive formation at its core? Another thing I'm thinking of doing is bumping my DLP and AP up a strata so it becomes a 4-2-3-1.

One thing I'd add: my wingers are mostly two-footed players, and most are better fits for IW/IF than Ws. Any tactic that requires wide wingers to dribble down the lines and cross would take at least 1-2 seasons to implement effectively, although if it's the WBs doing that I can work with it.

This is not bad for counterattacking or direct styles(if your defensive line is able to play through pressure), mate but you need a more patient approach to open up deep defences Let's look at your roles. You have near to no connection with your attack. This is because you play an AF which is marked by CDs.He needs space space to thrive. If he has the necessary attributes turn him to a simple DLFS or any other support role other than F9. Now ST is linked to the midfield and the flanks. Now your right side needs an early runner a FBA to catch up with IFA because he's going to be 2v1 there in the early transition to attack. To support this two a simple CMS or APS. Next to a supporting role I prefer another support role like a BBM with get forward  because IFS is going to cut inside. Now set both wings to sit narrower to support midfield play better and create more space for your fullbacks to do their thing. 

When it comes to your instructions, you need to be a bit more expansive against deep and narrow sides because you don't want to reduce your passing options, right? So, removing shorter passing, WBIB and narrow width will help with that. What you basically do with these instructions is playing in front of a deep and narrow defence without giving width to your attack to create some space in the middle. To increase the space IFs and DLF need to operate at their best, I strongly advise you to consider a mid-high block( Higher DL, More/Extremely Urgent Pressing, Get Stuck In(optional)) Your team will let them come a bit then you win the ball during transitions and attack before they settle which is the perfect situation for your attacking trio and your wbs so to ease these transitions I'd change your DM to a simple DMD. After winning the ball he' s going to distribute it to any passing options without being a ball magnet. 

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by frukox

[tigerking]

Thanks for the feedback! Two things I'm interested in more details on:

10 minutes ago, frukox said:

removing shorter passing, WBIB and narrow width

When I did this (any of those, actually), I found that way too many possessions were squandered by throwing terrible crosses in, which would either get intercepted or headed out of bounds. Any suggestions for counteracting that?

 

12 minutes ago, frukox said:

I'd change your DM to a simple DMD

I know rating isn't everything, but my DLP is the highest rated player of the season. When I've turned down his passing range, I've found that most of his passes go back to the CBs, who aren't nearly as good at playing the ball as he is. What's the rationale behind switching that to a DM?

[frukox]

2 minutes ago, tigerking said:

Thanks for the feedback! Two things I'm interested in more details on:

When I did this (any of those, actually), I found that way too many possessions were squandered by throwing terrible crosses in, which would either get intercepted or headed out of bounds. Any suggestions for counteracting that?

 

I know rating isn't everything, but my DLP is the highest rated player of the season. When I've turned down his passing range, I've found that most of his passes go back to the CBs, who aren't nearly as good at playing the ball as he is. What's the rationale behind switching that to a DM?

1) Because your players lacked passing options with the previous setup.

2) not to affect the speed of transitions to your attack. Any playmaking role will attract the ball more. I suggested you move your PM to right CM to support attack better. Maybe play your DM there if you have another player good at defending(bravery, acceleration, determination, anticipation, concentration, positioning, work-rate, tackling, etc.)

[Experienced Defender]

There is an obvious contradiction in your tactic - your TIs are very much possession-oriented while at the same time you use an AP with attack duty in your setup, who is a lot more suited for fast-transition styles of play. You can try with removing the Work ball into box and see if there is an improvement. If not, then you should consider a couple of tweaks in your setup of roles and duties, the first of which pertains to the aforementioned duty of your AP (or even the entire role).

Up front, if you want to pair a simple runner on attack duty such as AF with a wide forward also on attack duty, the latter tends to work better in such kind of partnership when played as a standard winger or IW than IF. Simply because both AF and IF are roles with an essentially very similar mindset, whereas winger and IW are a bit more of a midfield type of role, so to say. 

Your defensive TIs are overly aggressive - and needlessly so IMHO - plus coupled with less-than-optimal defensive compactness. You may now wonder why I have mentioned the defensive TIs when you are actually complaining about attacking issues only, but you need to know that the way you defend affects the way you attack (and vice versa). 

[Os]

I would imagine that your striker struggles to find space in behind defences.