Variable Player Potential for FM21 or FM22

[crusadertsar]

Other modern sports management games have it. Why not FM?

For example I have been playing Franchise Hockey Manager a lot recently and discovered this:

 

"New to FHM6 is the possibility of Variable Potential. Some players will be given a special marker that allows their potential to either rise or decline over time. This will produce more draft surprises - first-rounders that bust, or late-rounders that turn into elite players. Scouts may give you some warning if they think a player has this trait."

 

How awesome would it be in Football Manager where we could more accurately model late bloomer players like Jamie Vardie. And how come a certain famous ⚾ sim developer can do it and SI cannot?

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by crusadertsar

[HUNT3R]

12 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

SI cannot?

That's the wrong assumption to make. 

It isn't going to happen because it goes against the definition of what PA is. It's supposed to be the best a player can ever be. If it's variable, then the definition doesn't make sense.

Late bloomers are already possible in FM. Perhaps more can be done regarding the development/progression of players, but that's then to do with CA and its development and not PA.

[crusadertsar]

But it's more the idea of once you Scout the player 100% when he is 15 you more or less know what his max potential ceiling can ever be. I find that makes it kind of boring. Sure he may never reach his potential but we also know that he can never exceeded it. Which is just not right in sports. In both football and hockey it has been shown many times that scouts can be wrong early in players career. Or that there is often hidden potential that is not revealed until after player crosses that 24,25 age mark. In FM if he hasn't turned into a great player by the time he is 25, he never will. In FHM i already saw one late bloomer that I traded away who went on to become a veritable Franchise player for my rival. 

I just find it adds a whole other dimension to the game and increases that joy of discovering a hidden talent. I guess it's really too bad that's it's not possible in FM because it's really making me appreciate this other sim.

Edited August 17, 2020 by crusadertsar

[HUNT3R]

Just now, crusadertsar said:

But it's more the idea of once you Scout the player 100% when he is 15 you more or less know what his max potential ceiling can ever be

That's not the case though? Scouts are often wrong, especially with young players. They don't know a player's actual PA (the number) so it's based off things like how good they currently are for their age.

I had a left back. 22yo and 122CA and 122PA. My scouts gave him 2.5* CA and 4* PA. They had no idea that he peaked early. As long as we don't look at the number underneath, the system isn't as bad as people make it sound.

5 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

In both football and hockey it has been shown many times that scouts can be wrong early in players career.

That happens to scouts in FM too.

5 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Or that there is often hidden potential that is not revealed until after player crosses that 24,25 age mark.

The real potential of a player is always hidden in FM.

 

 

[crusadertsar]

3 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

That's not the case though? Scouts are often wrong, especially with young players. They don't know a player's actual PA (the number) so it's based off things like how good they currently are for their age.

I had a left back. 22yo and 122CA and 122PA. My scouts gave him 2.5* CA and 4* PA. They had no idea that he peaked early. As long as we don't look at the number underneath, the system isn't as bad as people make it sound.

That happens to scouts in FM too.

The real potential of a player is always hidden in FM.

 

 

Okay I didn't realize that. I guess because I usually play as top team with best scouts, I find my reports are usually pretty accurate especially when coming from multiple scouts. Haven't had a single newgen that surprised me yet. I guess there is always something we don't know about the game. Maybe I will see Vardy type player yet. Thanks for responding. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by crusadertsar

[Heywood JaBlowme]

4 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

 

The real potential of a player is always hidden in FM.

 

 

So ignore the PA to determine whether a player can at least be "decent" in a top league? I admit, I use the Editor to look at PA often when clubs bid on players from my Youth System to decide whether I should sell them rather then look at how they have developed. The Editor can be a blessing & a curse. 

[HUNT3R]

49 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Okay I didn't realize that. I guess because I usually play as top team with best scouts, I find my reports are usually pretty accurate especially when coming from multiple scouts. Haven't had a single newgen that surprised me yet. I guess there is always something we don't know about the game. Maybe I will see Vardy type player yet. Thanks for responding. 

No worries. I'm all for more varied development etc, but PA (as defined by SI) does what it needs to.

On the subject of being wrong - 

That's a nice example of scouts using a player's current ability to judge how good a kid could be.

Also from that thread:

Scouts can be a bit all over the place when it comes to young players especially. There's no real way to tell a player's potential.

--

In my team right now, here are a few examples - 

17yo right winger. 1* CA, 2* (3rd black star) PA. he's 86 CA, 86 PA. The kid will never make it. Based on their estimation, he could be around 140-150 PA, but they are waaaaaay off.

There are more 18-20yo players, all rated 3-4* PA, but all with only about 120-130 actual PA, so again, they won't reach the heights that my scouts think they will.

--

As far as CA goes, they're not too bad, BUT:

26yo ST - 149 CA - 3 star CA.

23yo LM - 153 CA - 4 star CA

28yo CM - 154 CA - 3 star CA

24yo ST - 154 CA - 4 star CA

22yo AMR - 155 CA - 3 star CA

24yo ST - 155 CA - 4 star CA

31yo DR - 157 CA - 3 star CA

26yo DC - 157 CA - 3.5 star CA

So my mid-range CA players vary quite a bit but form also is a part of the perceived CA, among other things.

---

Numbers aren't everything.

My CL winning keeper? 147 CA and 149 PA.

My CL winning striker and one of my best players, who I turned down £100m offers for? He's the 26yo, 149 CA striker. He has 6 caps for Italy so far as well. He scored about 20 goals in 25-ish matches in each of the last two seasons for me... as an AMR on Support Duty too.

My CL winning left midfielder, who I now sold for £95m? A 28yo LM with 155 CA. This was a season where a 171 CA, AMC player went for the same price and a 173 CA ST for 109m. 

I have a striker right now, who has amazing attributes. He's 24 and 183 CA and he cost only £42.5m, so around what I normally pay for players with 20 fewer points in CA. First season, 19 goals in 26. Then he struggles with 10 goals in 25. Then he has a season of 17 in 18(4) so far. So, I have a couple of REALLY good players and, if I'm honest, I don't know if 149-155 CA is considered good or average for a top league, but they're top players for me. It's the first time I'm looking at my players' numbers under the hood, so just reporting what I'm seeing. Hopefully it doesn't ruin the game for me too much.

 

[HUNT3R]

1 hour ago, Heywood JaBlowme said:

The Editor can be a blessing & a curse. 

Definitely. I've seen my players' PA number before and it ruined a save for me. How could my best player 'only' have xxx CA/PA?

I firmly believe in not looking at the actual number. Attribute distribution is important (attributes in the right places) as well as how they fit into your/my system. I haven't looked at the CA/PA of the players who were highly recommended to me, but they didn't fit what I was looking for, so they weren't going to perform for me and I'm happy about my decision. Would I have doubted myself if I saw the number? Maybe? If that number was high, would I have made a plan to fit him in? Probably, and for a stupid reason. If his attributes were good enough, I would have made a plan.

People also forget, Consistency and Big Matches don't form part of a player's CA and they can (not will) affect players and their performances so that's something to look at too.

And of course injury proneness. What good is it if you have a 198 PA player who is always injured so he struggles to ever get to that PA?