Building a sustaining Youth Intake for first time

[alanschu14]

Hi there!

In my current game I ended up at Skeid in Norway, a placement that appealed to me as it had a solid foundation for building a team from lower leagues due to their youth system and now that I've been promoted to the Premier League and qualified for Euro Cup, I have ambitions to grow the team (and by extension the league) and see what sort of long term continental success I can get.  There are two challenges that I see long term that I'll need to accomplish this: making money to pay for escalating wages and adhering to Norway's squad registration rules:

• Squad Registration rules are as follows:
  • Squad size must be between 20-25 players
  • Minimum of 2 players trained at club (This is easy to adhere to)
  • Minimum of 16 players trained in Nation (this one is a bit more restrictive!)
     
• Money issues:
  • I suspect the league prize money and TV contract will fall behind as league rep grows
    • Short term I think I'll be okay for money.
      • The league has dropped from 17th to 32nd while I've been here, seeing 1st place prize money drop about 1 million euros to currently 1.9M.  So there is room to recover here.
      • 1st Place in the Cup dropped from $800k to $600k in the past two seasons so some extra room for growth there
      • Income will also be supplemented with Continental games.
        • Lots of progression available as we're at 3 1st round qualifications in Euro Cup, and 1 2nd round qualification for Champions Cup
    • TV contract seems unchanged and I don't expect any changes (not sure when contracts renews, if at all).
      • Slated to make about $2M in TV money.
    • Long term will need to rely on continental league money and selling players!

 

Right now my current setup has me largely looking for promising youth around the world to sign for free transfers. I'm not against selling players if I have other potential cheap transfers and/or kids ready to fill the slots.  I also have supplemented my scouting to look for promising 17 year olds from lower leagues that can be had at a cheaper cost to help attain "trained in nation" benefits.

My current youth program situation is:

• Average Youth Facilities ($1.2M upgrade just approved after finishing second in Premier League)
• Exceptional Junior Coaching
• Established youth recruitment
   
• Skeid 2 reserve team which plays competitive games at Third Division levels (this is an assumption. It doesn't list anything, but Odd 2 once played in Second Division and relegated and now lists nothing as well).
  • I think a random chance it may possibly get promoted to a Tier 3/Second Division team
• A Third Division loaner affiliate - Lorenskog (formed before I realized Skeid 2 was also same level, but it is a free arrangement)
• A senior affiliate from Wil in Swiss Premier League - First option to buy players. Pays me $54k and they may loan players to me (hasn't happened, but I see no benefit to this arrangement in the short term)

 

I had a pretty decent intake of kids already, and in fact have won the U19 league twice and won the U19 Cup this season.  My general plan adapted midseason was to have my premier U19 kids play in the U19 game, with surplus kids spending time on loan or on Skeid 2.

With my facilities, league/club rep improving I should start getting better recruits.  I am worried about tapping out Norway's overall potential however.

Things I'll need to worry about long term are ensuring my youth intake is filled with capable kids with high potential. I think my junior coaching is about as high as it can go, and I have pretty good youth recruitment.  Youth facilities struggle a bit but that will come as the board agrees and yearly income will hopefully help.  Because of the 16 players trained in Norway requirement, it's very important for me to ensure players are trained in Norway. I know I can buy kids in the EU at under 17 to help work around this but that can get pricey.  Is it possible to have kids from abroad (Germany and Brazil of course, but I'm not picky) come to my Academy via the youth intake?  How do I facilitate this?

In terms of developing kids, I'm not sure the best way to ensure I can get sales of kids that will likely never sniff my first team, and I think it's due to a lack of first team time! Barring getting a new affiliate at a higher league/Skeid 2 promoting, I'm not sure if my current feeder teams will get enough exposure for people to be interested in purchases (I have gotten some loan offers though).  Should I be more active on sending them off on loans to other leagues with the hopes they play well and develop and then I can transfer list them?  The only real success I've had selling people are first team stars that want a higher league that I have suitable replacements for so I'm not sure the best way to both develop them while also making sure other teams know enough about them to pay reasonable dollars for them.

 

Thanks!  (Lunch time is over so I have to wrap this up, but I'll be back with any additional updates.

[wkdsoul]

Have you read Guido's guide on the strikerless site, just posted a really decent guide on how he built west ham into a product factory for HG talent? might have some ideas for you? 

[alanschu14]

20 minutes ago, wkdsoul said:

Have you read Guido's guide on the strikerless site, just posted a really decent guide on how he built west ham into a product factory for HG talent? might have some ideas for you? 

I am not sure if I have. Do you have a link handy?

[wkdsoul]

https://strikerless.com/2017/07/20/the-academy-applying-what-weve-learned/

[alanschu14]

Interesting! I'm not sure the Juventus approach is available for me yet as I'm still in a lower league with lower reputation and I'd have issues getting top tier talent for guaranteed loans with a fee. That said, I did find a really promising right wingback that made me muse over whether or not I should keep my current.  THe new on is available on a free and I could maybe loan my current one out, keep the new one and maybe get some money from that loan and/or build him up for a profit, and it doesn't make me feel as squicky as the human trafficking example he set up either! Hahaha  Maybe we'll see once finances are a bigger question mark!

But it is an avenue I haven't maybe considered well enough (I did loan out one right back when I brought in this guy so I could do the same if I find other free transfers). 

One of my strikers has moved up to a reliable 18 year old on the first team (super speedy!) so I just need to keep giving him some more time.  He has good familiarity with both wings which should help.  Once they are through the U19 team it seems like best option is to offer them on loan to teams they'll play first team for.

I guess I've struggled with that because as a control freak, I like being able to control their training and tutoring/traits. I guess that's something I need to make sure i get out of the way with their U19 time!  I'll keep at Skeid 2 for fringe players that cannot go out on a loan as long as wage bill doesn't get too expensive.  I may have jumped the gun too soon on my junior coaching as the costs have really shot up but as long as I can get strong league/cup placements, find deals on signings I think I'll be okay.

If I can get the loanee to cover their wages and the player grows might help pad the coffers a bit.  I'll see how things go with the continental cup.

[Ghents]

I played a lot with Atletico Bilbao, where you basically have to use youth since they have the Basque restriction.

I would say your initial plan is solid. The key is game time. At Bilbao their B team can promote, so it helped having them in Tier 2 to bleed players before being ready to work into La Liga, but loaning players helps a lot if you pay attention to it. I'd usually keep them on my youth squad until they were 1) too good for it or 2) too old. 

I didn't look for loan fees really, but I always made sure to have 50% wages covered at least and make sure their facilities are good. It's possible you could loan them out to German Tier 2 or whatever for fees, though. Like I said I never needed to turn the extra money. Then always make sure they're a valuable first team member at the least and if they don't get game time, recall them.

Game time is the key. It's the only way they'll really grow. I'd say I kept about 1/3 of the products and sold the rest. My squad wasn't too fluid though, since I couldn't really shop the transfer market much so I didn't have a lot of outgoings unless it was just too good to not sell.

[alanschu14]

Okay thanks. I was able to just secure a loaner affiliate with Byasen who just relegated to the Second Division so I have another lower team I can send players to to help ensure my youth program is getting players.  I'd like to see if I can't help them get promoted and then make sure they never promote . Ideally I wouldn't mind seeing Skeig 2 promote to Second Division then I'd have options at the 3 tiers below me.  This is still useful for ensuring players get the "developed in Norway" bonus to boot.

The board lets me choose affiliates but I can still only select from Norwegian teams so I imagine league/club rep still needs to improve. I was able to loan out a player for Italy back to Italy though so clearly it's still an option for players of enough skills/notoriety. I suspect this will improve now that I'm in continental competition.

[alanschu14]

I'm being a bit more liberal with my loans for some of the top players I had on my U19 team which for a couple players has paid off *really* well.  (note: I wish I could keep track of their training progress more clearly while on loan but alas).

Pretty sure the player (whom I considered fringe for first team!) is getting "match experience" bonuses since it's his first First team experience down in Byasen.

He's a midfielder and I'm getting a bit of logjam there now though so that leads me to a question:

Is his time playing in Second Division enough to start getting some attention that I could maybe sell him right now, or should I look to snag him some Premier League experience to up his exposure/value?  He could be a good candidate for a sale I think if I decide he's not for my first team.

[alanschu14]

Oops another bump with a question:

One thing I've noticed is that I don't typically get offers for players on Reserves/Youth teams even if they seem pretty decent. I get loads of offers for my First Team youngsters, but I imagine part of this is because scouts don't actually see the youth players all that much and teams are mostly unaware?

If that's the case, does that mean that if I loan a player out and he does well in his league, teams will be aware of him and increase the likelihood of offers?

I may have to tweak my youth teams a little bit then if that's the case and start loaning people out a bit more liberally.  Given Norway's aggressive nation home grown status it's been interesting trying to manage that with some of the younger kids I've been trying to poach from other nations.

 

I'll also give an update on how the progress has gone throughout my second year in Premier League in case anyone finds this interesting!  We just had our first ever Euro Cup game where we got lucky on our 1st round draw and played a team from Gibraltar and went up 5-0.  Played a lot of kids due to weak team to not put my Premier League at risk.  Second leg is soon and then I get to play either a team from Lithuania or Ukraine (probably latter, and I suspect they'll kill me... but it's been fun to show up!).

[ajsr1982]

Sorry if I'm hijacking this thread a little, but I thought the answer to my query may help you some.

I've noticed that players who come through your youth system - that is, those who come from your yearly youth intake as opposed to the 17 year-olds you mentioned above - often perform above and beyond what you'd expect if you objectively observed their attributes. I always find this really rewarding.

I've also noticed that if you can get a player to 'preferred', 'icon' or 'legend' (I think they're the categories) status - shown in the club information screen, you'll get supposedly inferior players playing their heart out for you. If your players like you, it helps as well! I have a 19-year-old who came through my ranks currently picking up 'Young Player of the Month' awards in Serie A, despite being a middling Serie B player by all appearances. Lovely stuff, and certainly encourages a long-term approach to home-grown talent, I'd think.

Of course, I could be imagining this. If someone could give us the definitive answer on some of this, that would be great.

[alanschu14]

3 hours ago, ajsr1982 said:

I've noticed that players who come through your youth system - that is, those who come from your yearly youth intake as opposed to the 17 year-olds you mentioned above - often perform above and beyond what you'd expect if you objectively observed their attributes. I always find this really rewarding.

Growing kids is one of my favourite things to do in the game. I clearly get a dopamine release by seeing a chart trend upwards

Not sure what you mean by "objectively observe their attributes" though. My basic policy since money isn't a huge issue (First Team wages are still pretty low) is to sign any player that has 3.5-4 star potential to a max length FT contract with optional extensions as I've definitely seen some "meh" prospects at 15 turn into "hmmmmmmm" players at 18-19!  Only thing I really try to keep an eye out for is making sure the team doesn't have *too* many players, and I have a decent balance at each position.  Exceptions thus far have been for low stats that don't tend to change (bravery/aggression and natural fitness).

My training regimen so far has been largely fitness based, although maybe too much. My first batch of promising kids growing up are amazing athletes but probably lacking some technical skills than I'd like. Last season I split about 1/3 Fitness, 1/3 Attacking, 1/3 Ball control to mix things up a bit. I think also the kids just see huge growth in physicals because they're still kids haha.

I've also started to do some more loaning.  I typically keep players until they are at least 18 years old and then evaluate. Since I have a U19 team I might keep them on the youth team if I want to personalize their growth, but I'm starting to loan out to affiliates and doing what I can to make sure those on the cusp are getting first team time somewhere.  I was able to flip one kid for a modest €20k sale after he did pretty well on my Second Division affiliate but ultimately wasn't going to make first team.  I'm also making sure I have some first team opportunities for kids that may be flirting with full time status just so they can get some minutes. Will probably keep them match fit on the 2nd team (playing in simulated 4th Tier games).  I have one forward that is going to make me think long and hard about keeping my current one! Current one does have better finishing though so maybe I'll try a pump and dump on the kid

3 hours ago, ajsr1982 said:

I've also noticed that if you can get a player to 'preferred', 'icon' or 'legend' (I think they're the categories) status - shown in the club information screen, you'll get supposedly inferior players playing their heart out for you. If your players like you, it helps as well!

I didn't think much about the preferred stuff but that is interesting. I do try to make sure my players like me as I feel it helps out in contract negotiations for sure.

I also just became Norway's National Team manager so I can make sure that my kids are now getting the opportunities they are due! ;P

[alanschu14]

Actually in a more direct question not hidden in a wall of text, how do people deal with youth training?

I had set them to fitness largely under the idea that "it's easier to grow physical skills when under 18" and figure it'd be best to help them reach that peak sooner rather than later.  But part of me is also thinking maybe it'd be best to just keep a balanced approach to make sure my kids are well rounded?

First Team focuses a lot on tactics and ball control as those fit into my club DNA, but I definitely still want well rounded players.