Late goals & offside

[nextqprmanager]

I played more games than usual over the weekend and 2 things which annoyed me the most are :

Conceding late goals in matches - because it happened more than once, I changed mentality to defensive / contain, formation to my `the wall` etc. etc.  -  all to no avail.

Also , not only my players [ but mostly ] , are constantly offside, it is so annoying - how to stop ?.

Any ideas please?

thx in adv

[HUNT3R]

Tactics forum for tactical questions, please. If all you're doing is switching Mentality to Defensive or Contain, I can see why you're conceding still. You're not altering much of the tactic itself, just how much risk will be taken. If the tactic is still open, it won't change much. You may actually be making it worse. Keep this in mind if you do post in the tactics forum and detail your system + changes made.

[borivoje213]

It might appear to be "only one change" but doesn't changing mentality have an effect on defensive line, passing, closing down, player's who have 'automatic' rather than attack/support/defend, and width?

In reply to the OP I have had similar spells with my team from time to time, I put a lot of faith early on with younger players in a somewhat trial by fire attitude.  One thing that has helped me is to keep the team...I forget what it's called, the thing that shows you your team's morale and mood (and the oppositions too actually).  I keep an eye out for changing mood during the match to combat nervous/frustrated players.  Also to get an idea of how motivated/fired up the opposition are.  Try using touchline shouts and remaining substitutions to combat nervous/frustrated - particularly defensive - players.  And be weary of teams that are highly motivated late on.

Defensive and contain are good options but certainly the latter is only decent for short term desperate measures.  But tbh the biggest change I made was not defending one goal leads unless it's absolutely necessary and for short periods.  a 2 goal gap is your best defence from late goals.  you'll find some players getting nervous holding one goal leads for any amount of time.  if anything remaining with a decent mentality for a narrow lead will give you an effective chance of putting a game to bed late on while they're pushing forward.

This is of course just my opinion, it worked for me but it could all just be toss.

[HUNT3R]

9 minutes ago, borivoje213 said:

It might appear to be "only one change" but doesn't changing mentality have an effect on defensive line, passing, closing down, player's who have 'automatic' rather than attack/support/defend, and width?

It does, but that's still not taking into account roles, duties, TIs and PIs.

He could be using a 4-2-3-1 with 8 attack duties for all we know.

[borivoje213]

yeah. I'm still inclined to question whether a defensive approach is the correct option at all rather than whether it is being correctly employed.

[nextqprmanager]

Thank you for your replies HUNT3R & borivoje213.

This is the tactic - the one I have had a little success with :

Instructions :

My changes have been :

More time wasting, retain possession, sometimes more direct passing.

& I agree that some players were getting frustrated / nervous in matches, so at half time I said `good effort` & that went away & I shouted calm concentrate / tighten up.

Any help please?

Thanking you

[borivoje213]

I've not really had much experience with using wing-backs on this version (or at least only one player on each flank).  But one thing I've noticed (might just be me) but I notice a lot of assists coming from the wings on fast counters where unsupported full backs are unable to get back and tracking CBs can't cover attackers ghosting late for low crosses.

But specifically holding a lead I would drop "prevent short GK distribution" because it just encourages them to get the ball forward more directly, also stop closing them down as much because if they're chasing a goal late on they're not going to be hanging about. They'll be pinging the ball around quick enough to handle the pressure you're throwing at them, so your closing just ends up opening up gaps for them.

Also the DLP, AP and TM combination.  I'm not opposed to using more than one PM, especially if you want to play high possession as I've noticed they're really good for recycling the ball.  But having PMs who are given licence and freedom to create, and putting a TM in front of them to focus passes at seems a little ironic at first glance.

The BWMs will be actively closing looking for the ball rather than sitting too. It might be worth setting at least one to a plain CMd. Its great for them to be hunting for the ball when you're looking for more goals because they can catch players out, but late on holding a lead I would say they're too aggressive and can leave gaps.  Given the choice (and available players for the roles) I'd go DLP(s), CMd, BWM(s).  Been a while since I played with a 3 man centre midfield though I'll be honest so someone else could probably give you a better combo.

[herne79]

@HUNT3R is still on the money.

Lowering your mentality in this instance is in effect conceding space to what are now pretty attack minded opponents in the critical zone between your midfield and defence.  And when you do win the ball back, what happens to it?  You are using a Target Man so your players are still looking to pump it up to him, regardless of "Retain Possession" or whatnot, and unless he holds onto it you're just giving the ball back to the opposition.

So how to change?  One idea could be to change your 4312 into a 4132, by removing the AMC player and putting someone into DMC instead.  That can manage the space better and offer additional defensive cover.  At the same time you could alter the Target Man to a different role.  Perhaps even reduce the risk taking of your fullbacks.

I'm moving this over to the Tactics forum.

[nextqprmanager]

Herne79, HUNT3R & borivoje213, thank you for all your help - I will take on board.

ps. I often reduce the FB`s to support / defend, esp if opposition are attacking flanks.

Interesting & frustrating this game.

[Delvey]

I use a wing back system at the moment, and I was finding late goals a problem too. No idea where yours are coming from, but I found team throwing forward full backs with wingers were getting 2v1s on the outside. Now I switch to a 4-1-4-1, or anything with doubled flanks, just to see out the game. 

Working so far!

[nextqprmanager]

Delvey, thanks, I did all the above & still conceded late in a 1-1 draw.

I then changed after 30 mins at home where Newcastle were dominating to Counter flexible, then changed all instructions at half time - won 2-1 [ Newcastle scoring the late goal, albeit a consolation ].

[Delvey]

Given your level of closing down, the players are prob just knackered.....