Tactic SOS

[Deisler26]

Hi there! I've just taken over West Ham, midway through season 2. I struggled with Crystal Palace for a season and a half and I'd really like to go it on my own with separate tactics for home and away.

Now, I have set up a tactic for the away game, but my tactical nous is absolutely appalling. So I offer it out to the board. What is wrong with this tactic? And if it is wrong, can you explain why?

Cheers!

[RTHerringbone]

In terms of Duty balance, you've done well but the Role selection may have one or two issues. I have a couple of questions:

1. Who do you see getting the goals? With the F9 dropping deep, the IF (A) is arguably the main attacking threat unless Nolan is advancing quickly enough

2. What is Downing's cross completion rate like? Considering his set up, and the movement of the F9, I imagine he's hitting some pretty speculative crosses

3. Why Play Narrower? Stand Off? Stay On Feet? What is your understanding of these Tis and what are you aiming to achieve?

[Deisler26]

In terms of Duty balance, you've done well but the Role selection may have one or two issues. I have a couple of questions:

1. Who do you see getting the goals? With the F9 dropping deep, the IF (A) is arguably the main attacking threat unless Nolan is advancing quickly enough

2. What is Downing's cross completion rate like? Considering his set up, and the movement of the F9, I imagine he's hitting some pretty speculative crosses

3. Why Play Narrower? Stand Off? Stay On Feet? What is your understanding of these Tis and what are you aiming to achieve?

1. I see the goals coming from the wings, with Maiga dropping deep, Morrison's cutting in will be what I need atm

2. No idea, but again, deep crosses to the far post for Ravel.

3. I want to defend en-masse, a wall of bodies as it were. Compact and defending the middle

[todo por ella]

I've been playing a very similar tactic to this one, with the main difference being two Wingers (one S, one A) who seem to get the bulk of my goals. A couple of suggestions from many seasons of trial and error, some good results and a few horrific thrashings

1. In my experience I tried many times to use an anchorman or half back, but never quite worked. A defensive midfielder with D just seems more natural and helps with distribution. In similar terms, a ball-playing defender and centre back helps you play out at the back much more fluidly.

2. If you have a quick central midfielder change the AP to a CM A with instructions to get further forward and dribble more, he will give you at least 15 goals a season and as many assists with a bit of luck.

3. TI wise, exploit flanks with this formation always seemed a bit superfluous for me given you play principally with wingers. Save it for teams playing 4-1-2-1-2 or three at the back and you'll get best results. Likewise, with short passing and a goalkeeper that distributes to defenders you get in my opinion a more effective version of play out of defence.

[RTHerringbone]

Play Narrower actually influences your passing structure - passes will be focused through the middle so if you see goals coming from the wings, this potentially is an issue.

EDIT - You also Exploit The Flanks. I have no idea how this and Play Narrower combine. One says focus passing centrally, the other says play it wide. They possibly negate each other and the ultimate output is just that the full backs become more attacking and the CMs hold the ball up more.

Stay On Feet will see you hold a more consistent defensive shape and Stand Off will add to that, so these TIs fit in well with your defensive plans.

[Deisler26]

Play Narrower actually influences your passing structure - passes will be focused through the middle so if you see goals coming from the wings, this potentially is an issue.

EDIT - You also Exploit The Flanks. I have no idea how this and Play Narrower combine. One says focus passing centrally, the other says play it wide. They possibly negate each other and the ultimate output is just that the full backs become more attacking and the CMs hold the ball up more.

Stay On Feet will see you hold a more consistent defensive shape and Stand Off will add to that, so these TIs fit in well with your defensive plans.

My plan for ETF & PN, was that we held the centre, but sprayed the ball out wide

[Deisler26]

I've been playing a very similar tactic to this one, with the main difference being two Wingers (one S, one A) who seem to get the bulk of my goals. A couple of suggestions from many seasons of trial and error, some good results and a few horrific thrashings

1. In my experience I tried many times to use an anchorman or half back, but never quite worked. A defensive midfielder with D just seems more natural and helps with distribution. In similar terms, a ball-playing defender and centre back helps you play out at the back much more fluidly.

2. If you have a quick central midfielder change the AP to a CM A with instructions to get further forward and dribble more, he will give you at least 15 goals a season and as many assists with a bit of luck.

3. TI wise, exploit flanks with this formation always seemed a bit superfluous for me given you play principally with wingers. Save it for teams playing 4-1-2-1-2 or three at the back and you'll get best results. Likewise, with short passing and a goalkeeper that distributes to defenders you get in my opinion a more effective version of play out of defence.

I am doing the goalkeeper thing. I don't have a midfielder that I would trust with the CM (A) tbh, not in the Premier League.

[RTHerringbone]

Have you played many games yet? Barring the fact that you could do with some more oomph through the middle (I agree with todo por ella's suggestions), it seems like a decent tactics for matches where you want to try to nick a win.

[Deisler26]

Have you played many games yet? Barring the fact that you could do with some more oomph through the middle (I agree with todo por ella's suggestions), it seems like a decent tactics for matches where you want to try to nick a win.

Played one game, against Man City. Lost 2-1, but weren't outmatched.

[RTHerringbone]

How are you planning to approach games where you think you have a chance to win?

[Deisler26]

If I could ask the same about my home tactic? (ignore the players involved)

(Nolan would be the Enganche)

[Deisler26]

How are you planning to approach games where you think you have a chance to win?

See above

[todo por ella]

I am doing the goalkeeper thing. I don't have a midfielder that I would trust with the CM (A) tbh, not in the Premier League.

That's fair enough, I've noticed it takes a very specific type of player to make this work.

In fact, in my 8 years of current save I've used the same player in 7 of them!! A young Argentine winger I converted into CM, then took him over to La Liga when I left the Argentine Primera. Not the best star rating, 3 1/2 I think now but with great pace and dribbling, **** decisions but always capable of doing great things. Whenever he's injured or suspended, no other player seems to do the same job. I think the kid may be my favourite FM player ever

[RTHerringbone]

I don't like the "Home" tactic

There are no clear avenues to goal and too many specialist Roles to play Fluid.

[Deisler26]

I don't like the "Home" tactic

There are no clear avenues to goal and too many specialist Roles to play Fluid.

OK. So, back to Balanced then. That formation just got me a 0-0 against Cardiff. We made some decent chances, but the keeper beat us. Plus that was with a rookie striker as the F9.

[Marsupian]

1. The home tactic has 3 instructions to lower the tempo, 2 instruction to pass shorter and 2 instructions to play wider. That is on top of a mentality that tries to attack in somewhat careful way. I'd imagine it will take about 45 mins to reach the opponents goal. I'd remove all team instructions and have a long think about what 1 or 2 instructions you would use to define your style of play.

2. On top of slowing your team all the way down and explicitly telling them to not pass forward or do anything too quickly you also have no players running at the goal. The F9 drops deep, the enganche who is your only attacking role is famous for being immobile and the wide players are creators on support duty. You really look determined to not score goals.

3. Roles without a fancy name are perfectly fine to use. If you don't have a very specific plan for a role besides just doing what a player in that position does just use the standard role. The choice of anchorman for your home tactic for instance doesn't make sense to me at all. A DM on defend or support seems to be a far more logical choice for that formation.

4. For your away tactic the combination of "stay on feet", "stand off" and a defensive mentality looks really scary to me. It will give the opponents acres of space with a reluctance to put in a strong challenge. Keeping shape is a good plan but playing with a counter mentality already does this (except on the break). If you see opponents walking through your final third without any pressure you might want to remove one or both of those instructions. Especially "stay on feet" sounds silly to me if you want to counter the opponent. What better way to start a counter than a strong sliding challenge on that playmaker that is trying to control a pass?

5. If you want the goals to come from the wings (away tactic) I'd change the winger to attack duty. You don't have anyone who is going to win a cross from deep unless you are on the break in which case an attacking winger would probably do the same and an attacking winger provides an extra goal threat for the F9 and AP(a) to play into and he will get to the byline more often which can be a real danger with the players you have.

Hope this helps!

[DavidBeckham]

For your Away tactic:

The IF-A and AP-A may be playing into the same space, maybe swap the CM duties around?

On the right wing, IF-A will cut in and with the RB on support duty, width may be compromised. I would go IF-s & FB-A on right wing and W-A & FB-s on the left.

You should definitely use CM-A instead of AP-A to add more thrust into the box when the F9 drops deep. A CM-A & f9 combination works really well on this version.

If you are looking to counter with this tactic, playing out from the back may slow down your counter attacking. And I feel that ETF and PN are contradicting instructions as well.

For your Home tactic:

The gap between your DMs and AMC may be too huge and cause disconnection in your transitions. I would recommend you to make changes to the roles and duties to bridge this gap.

The midfield anchor should be on the side where your FB is on attack duty to cover the space he leaves behind when bombing forward.

I would also change AP-s on the right wing to AP-A just to balance the duties around.

Your team instructions may cause your buildup to be too slow and that may explain the goal-less draw with Cardiff. Personally, I would remove retain possession and lower tempo.

Hope these pointers help mate!

[j4y_z]

Play Narrower actually influences your passing structure - passes will be focused through the middle so if you see goals coming from the wings, this potentially is an issue.

EDIT - You also Exploit The Flanks. I have no idea how this and Play Narrower combine. One says focus passing centrally, the other says play it wide. They possibly negate each other and the ultimate output is just that the full backs become more attacking and the CMs hold the ball up more.

Stay On Feet will see you hold a more consistent defensive shape and Stand Off will add to that, so these TIs fit in well with your defensive plans.

Is the bold part really true? I always thought that 'Exploit the middle' focusses passing centrally. In my opinion, 'Play Narrower' and 'Exploit The Flanks' is perfectly fine, because you play narrower, thus forcing the opponent to stay more compact and probably leaving space on the flanks for you to exploit with the 'Exploit The Flanks' TI.

This worked a treat on FM13 with my Malaga side.

[RTHerringbone]

Is the bold part really true? I always thought that 'Exploit the middle' focusses passing centrally. In my opinion, 'Play Narrower' and 'Exploit The Flanks' is perfectly fine, because you play narrower, thus forcing the opponent to stay more compact and probably leaving space on the flanks for you to exploit with the 'Exploit The Flanks' TI.

It's true. Exploit The Middle is far more than just focusing passing centrally (it also affects some player Mentalities, through balls, forward runs AND where the passing is focused).

Play Narrower affects fewer things (it decreases width AND focuses passing through the middle).