Solid Approach

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hahahaha i imagine her asking you about flowers and the same time you conceed a total fluke

I ve been many times to brake up because of frustration by FM..............

I wish the best to you two

Actually they dont try long balls probably because of Shorter Passing option and because they have many players near them to give it short (FBs and two DMs).

Last game i am Everton and won West Brom (12th in PL, not too down in morale) 3-1, having 11 shots (6 on target, 1 long) and 6 CCC while they had 9 shots (1 on target, 6 long) and 1 CCC created later in the game when they played with very high tempo. And thats exactly what the problem is. I ve seen so many times in my saves, crap teams tearing me apart just with their high tempo. I know i am deep and give them time and space to do that but then again when i am high some crap AIs DC or DM will make a brilliant long pass to their lone attacker who easily breakes the offside he is one on one with the gollie. Thats what i am trying to do, to find the balance to work most of the times, having in mind what will happen when i am up against BETTER teams and players.

[jamez_b]

hahahaha i imagine her asking you about flowers and the same time you conceed a total fluke

I ve been many times to brake up because of frustration by FM..............

I wish the best to you two

Actually they dont try long balls probably because of Shorter Passing option and because they have many players near them to give it short (FBs and two DMs).

Last game i am Everton and won West Brom (12th in PL, not too down in morale) 3-1, having 11 shots (6 on target, 1 long) and 6 CCC while they had 9 shots (1 on target, 6 long) and 1 CCC created later in the game when they played with very high tempo. And thats exactly what the problem is. I ve seen so many times in my saves, crap teams tearing me apart just with their high tempo. I know i am deep and give them time and space to do that but then again when i am high some crap AIs DC or DM will make a brilliant long pass to their lone attacker who easily breakes the offside he is one on one with the gollie. Thats what i am trying to do, to find the balance to work most of the times, having in mind what will happen when i am up against BETTER teams and players.

Yeah i'm using very high tempo in games i'm expected to lose and it seems to make a big difference and is definitely the way to go against big sides. It is when i'm playing on very high tempo and the opposition seems to have an even higher tempo than me that i really struggle to turn the tide. I just think some games my team looks so slow and lethargic and other games they are on the ball. Complacency is a big problem now given that we've walked the league the last 2 seasons and my worry is that it'll only take PAOK and Olympiakos to get their act in gear and i'll be in trouble.

Always concede a stupid goal when she's asking me questions and then getting a telling off for getting annoyed with "just a game".

I'm wondering with LD instruction if i'm playing a half back they won't cover the flanks as well as a CD. I need to have a play around over pre-season a bit i think and create a new tactic to retain my dominance over Greece.

How are you finding Lagos a Centre back? I've always thought him to short to play that position and him better suited to a DM role? Was thinking for a while about retraining Donis as a ball playing Defender but he's too good going forward for me. Need height in the backline

[jamez_b]

Finished my 3rd season last night with another league and cup double. Was looking bleak after losing 2-0 at home to Olympiakos is the semi final of the cup. Then this happened:

Not beaten Olympiakos that bad the whole time I've been playing but it felt bloody good. Hiddink got sacked in the end after they finished 3rd in the European places qualifying group. Dick Advocaat is the new manager....

Also managed to get to the Europa League semi final only to crash out 2-1 on aggregate to eventual winners Marseille. Good effort but finishing let us down in the end so will have to come back stronger next year.

Now the big piece that i need to focus on having analysed my end of season stats....mistakes? I'm making bloody loads of them and worked it out that i'm making on average 33 a game.

Team Stats

Player Stats

That is my focus for next season and I need to have a closer look into how many mistakes on average people have per game and what cause them.

Need to build a new philosophy for my 4-3-3 shape for the new season as well. The Greek teams well and truely have me sussed out.

[jamez_b]

So finally ended my 12 game streak without a win in the Champions League with this result:

You can watch the goals on youtube (Villalva's 4th is a peach):

I've changed tactics this season to a 4-1-1-3-1 Formation to go for more of a high press and think I've finally got it working and the goals are flowing. I need to get some proper analysis done it but just been busy so only really been getting time to play rather than analyse. In the last 8 games including Champions League I've scored 33 and conceded 2. The likes of Donis, Mavrias, Ninis and Villalva are thriving in the new system and by switching to very fluid i'm seeing teams struggle to counter my formation as easily as they did when i played my very rigid counter attacking game.

Will try and put some proper analysis together in the next few days but pretty busy for once at work so that is hampering my time available to write these things up.

[HTC]

Just an update james_b

Still have issues but i am having a little fun now.

I started from scratch, and again after two years of testing (minor changes) i ve came up to something that i am happy with.

It started as a set of three tactics in my first and second year.

422(MRL)11. One Standard one Attacking and one Defensive. Defensive Line defined by mentality, a few TIs and A LOT PIs after studying my players strengths.

In the league i am ok won it two times. First year conceed 26 goals second 19. Right now i am second in 26 games conceeded only 15.

Some good results those years was two wins against Chelsea and Milan at home. 3-0 and 2-0. But it wasnt the score, it was the solid defence i had. Didnt got the results from luck.

After a heavy loss from Galatasaray away (5-0, could be much worst) i ve decided that i cant defend in a deep line, so took your advice from the other topic and considering i have now Trianta (he is much quicker after latest patch) and Oikonomou (a young quick great defender from Cagliari) i changed my philosophy to press high and play offside. (Dont know yet what to do with Risvanis. He is a wonderkid after patch but he is too slow. Any advice?)

So :

Very Rigid because my defenders are only good in defence, my midfielders are decent in both defence and attack and my attackers are low workrate pacey players.

(Tryied to change that to Rigid to give my team a little extra in attack but after some really bad decisions from my DCs changed back. And i am fine again.)

Standard. Its ideal i think for what i want.

Be More Disciplined : because my team has low decisions, composure and creativity in generall.

Drill Crosses : because my striker is quick, not a target man style.

Use Offside with Much higher Def Line.

Hassle Opponents.

Exploit the Middle (this is a new addition, i feel it made me better both in defence and attack)

GK - SKd : I have Kapino and i signed Gomes who is perfect for my team status to rotate them. So frustrating to have only one good gollie and he get injured.

Pass shorter, Distribute to right full back because a) its very dangerous to distribute in the stopper area and b) because the DLP is on the right side.

RB - FBs : I have Marinakis and i also use Lagos (quicker after patch). Dribble Less, Shoot Less, Pass Shorter, Close Down More, Tackle Harder, Few Risky Passes. All those instructions based on his attributes.

LB - FBa : I have Insua and Grillo. Two descent quick good in defence Argentinians. Same PIs.

DCs - CDd both : Trianta and Oikonomou are my starters. Koutroubis and Risvanis backups. They have very good mental and defence atts but they are slow.

Pass Shorter.

DMCR - DLPs : Zeca and one of the best potensials in Greece, Ballas.

Tackle Harder.

DMCL - Anchor : Potouridis (Novara. He is great after patch. A quick strong techniqual gifted defender) and Donis . Donis after patch and with some training has 14 strength, pace, jumping, balance, 13 passing, decisions, passing, composure, anticipation, and 12 tackling, positioning and marking. He is great as the feeling of using your academy products.

Tackle Harder - Pass shorter.

MR - WMa : I brought back Mavrias too. He was transfer listed. I also have Katidis (Novara) there. He has been a monster.

Shoot Less, More Risky Passes, Pass Shorter, Tackle Harder.

ML - WMs : Federico Freire is a free agent at start. And Korovesis. I use the second one in hard matches because he is more hard worker and Freire when i need a goal or in easy maches as he is actually a quick Playmaker.

Same PIs

AMC - APs : This is the role i currently sticked too. I ve tryed TQ and EG but they didnt get deep to make play as much as i wanted.

Here i have a brilliant kid named Lourival.

I know he is better as a striker but wait to see my strikers

More Direct Passes, Dribble More, Mark Tighter. As a backup i have Neumann and because he broke his leg i also brought back Fourlanos (both Panathinaikos academy products).

ST - AFa. Shoot Less, Pass Shorter, More Risky Passes, Move Into Chanells, Roam, Mark Tighter, Run Wide (key instruction i feel).

Here i have two wonderkids. I rotate them all the time. The first one has 22 apps, 17 goals, 4 assists. The second one 18 apps, 14 goals, 1 assist. Both have the same Key passes, and same average rating so EVERY TIME i dont know which to choose

Judivan

and Anthony Lozano (bought him for 600 euros :lol: )

Just beaten Atletico Madrid to EURO Cup 32. 1-1 home, 2-0 won away with two great performances.

Won olympiakos also 2-1 away in bettween of those two matches with Atletico.

Something important. Tryied ease tackles and tactic lost all its effectiveness both in attack and defence.

When i score i use Retain Possesion. Thats it

----------------------------------------------------

PS. and the most important. Did you see? WE WON THE CUP

[HTC]

Questions to everyone.

1) What to do with Risvanis and the offside trap? Look how good he is. Dont want to sell him. Combination of stats and that he is homegrown is a must stay for me.

2) In my set i used in first two seasons i tryied to replicate the nike defence but not with cover - stopper.

I asked my DMCR to close down less, and my DMCL to close down more

And my DCR to close down less and my DCL to close down more.

Is there any chance it did actually worked or i was dreaming? Milan ahich

3) I havent set any movement to my WMs (Run or Cut). What moves they do by default?

[HTC]

happy times

[HTC]

http://oi59.tinypic.com/jg2kpx.jpg

ffs sake:thdn:

[HTC]

Finished my 4th season. Lost again in Europa League Knock Out Round from Tottenham in the match you see above.

Finished 2nd in my league having the same points with 1st. (Lost in between matches)

Won the cup.

Came up with a change in formation again in my last 14 (league-cup-play offs) matches and its working wonders (hope i dont jinx it) at least in my league.

13 wins, 1 draw. 26 scored, only 4 conceeded.

Shots average : 17-3

CCCs average : 3-1

(this is not fair)

Tackle Harder - Pash Shorter to 4 defenders

The same plus Fewer Risky Passes to DM

Dribble Less, Pass Short, More Risky, Tackle Harder, Mark Tighter to BBMs

Run Wide, More Direct Passes, Cross from Deep, Cross Center, Get Further Forward to DWs

Move Into Channels, Hold Position, Pass Shorter, Dribble Less, Mark Tighter to CFa

Shoot Less Often to everyone.

[jamez_b]

Well i guess the positives is that you've got to the end of your 4th season and i like the shape of your formation. The Tottenham match is a really unlucky one and i'd have been chucking things around the room at that one. Even so getting out of that group is nothing to be sniffed at.

How do you find the link up play between the CF and the BBMs in your latest formation?

Is that Heurelho Gomes you have in goal? If so no wonder you conceded 4 against Tottenham. Has Kapino not become your number 1?

I had a very frustrating FM weekend and the below two screenshots pretty much sum up my problem at the moment.

And compare that final shot analysis with a match versus Olympiakos 3 months earlier:

Just getting a bit fed up now with 1-0s and my strikers missing chance after chance. So not sure my options really to try and fix it. Not playing High Tempo, i've got work ball into the box selected, playing standard so they should be taking their time. Creating plenty of opportunities just either missing or the keeper is saving them and then having to rely on a corner or free kick to avoid a 0-0. Annoying but i shall keep trying to find a way to start scoring again.

[HTC]

I think its a combination of mediocre finishing (composure decisions technique)/maybe constistency and pressure/bad days/and ME trying to frustrate you

Try place shots (if he has good technique and finishing) i saw good improvement in a striker of mine.

Its working brilliantly actually.

My first game in Europa League (draw Arsenal in CL play offs and lost 4-3 agg ). I know its an easy team but again....

9 CCCs

I sold Mavrias 10 Million, to reduce the loss of my Champions League fail. Bought noone. Lourival is now my first choise there, Katidis my backup and his place in BBMs covered my an academy product (Angelopoulos. Real one, i dont use regens) who turned to be really good.

And yeah thats the Gomes one. I rotate them. They had last season 25 games each. Kapinos is great but not so great to win me matches. If Gomes is on a good day he wins me matches. If not, like in reality, you know

[jamez_b]

Yeah probably I think its complacency more than anything but currently can't find a way to fix it. Victim of my own success but i would have thought the players would have known by now not to muck be around. Ah well i'll shall continue and hope they pull their fingers out and we get back to our best.

10-1? impressive don't think I've ever recorded a victory that comprehensive (mostly because of missing easy chances )

Do love that you still managed to concede 1 goal from 2 shots and Gomes got rated 8.2. 2 CCC for them?

I guess it's just the way of the world with high lines and is all good so long as you score more than them.

Shame you had to sell Mavrias, i'm genuinely concerned now for keeping Panathinaikos sustainable financially as even though i've not made huge signings i'm having to pay champions league wages now so the likes of Leto, Mavrias, Ninis, Donis, Trianta, Marinakis etc. are all on 40 grand a week plus. Just in the process of buying Apostolos Nikolidais as well so that i can expand it. Would much rather grow the classic homeground of Pana rather than end up in the Mendoza Arena.

Also looking at expanding my commercial incomes, to make the club more sustainable. Both Olympiakos and myself have Japanese feeder clubs now and am doing tours to Asia in every international window. Good way to make a million during the international break and hopefully increase shirt sales and general merchandising. (There is a post on my plans and whether it'll work in the general discussion.)

How are the likes of Donis, Marinakis, Stamatkis, Anastopolous, Chouchoumis and Giannitsanis all doing?

In real life have you heard of one of the Pana youth players Lazaros Lamprou? Saw a youtube video of him the other week and looks amazing.

Finally i saw the riots in the Pana vs PAOK match at the weekend which was pretty mental, no surprise that PAOK were involved but from what i read it's a problem across the board in Greece which is a shame.

On flip side though i'm liking the new Pana kit and glad they've gone back to the all green kit, wasn't really a fan of the stripes hence why i edited the kit of my long term Pana game as well as designing my own SS and 3D kit to match.

Anyway keep us posted on your progress and i'll try and get a bit more analysis up later on this week to illustrate my struggles to get back to scoring lots of goals. (Hopefully )

[HTC]

olympiakos president doesnt want either paok or us to play inchampions league playoffs because if a second team in greece quilifies he loses half of the market pool (over 5 million). This fact meets the stupidity of some drug addict fools (paok fans entered the stadium just when the game started and the first thing to do was to through flares to FAMILIES of Panathinaikos fans were sitting in the near gate. Then some of our fans entered the field and went there to attack them) and we have the result of marinakis beeing the dictator of football in greece. We (our fool fans) eat the bate and here we are. Paok are already punished with -3 points for their riots against olympiakos and we are also gonna be punished with the same way. but wht a surprise, when olympiakos doing those things the referee doesnt write it in his after match report so no punishment for them. The same things happening for 17 years now for the same reason. The huge (considering our very low incomes in our league) Uefa bonuses for Champions League.

On topic now they are doing great for me. Marinakis Trianta Risvanis Donis Neumann Kapino and all the other Greeks i bought. The feeling if having a homegrown squad plus a few great foreigners just to make the difference in addition to a solid way of play is a joy to behold for me.

Forgot to tell you i trained most of my forwards to play one two's so this must helping a lot to attacking phase of the tactic.

I have huge problem in my finances though because of failing to qualify to CL for two years. Players asking at least 1 million per year which means i need 25-30 million per year if i want to keep then more and take advantage if their cohessiveness and good relations they have.

I am writing from phone will write more later

[HTC]

Started a new save because i am excited with my tactic and want to implement it from the start because i dont use regens (well except really unique occasions i maybe use ONE player in my squad, and generally i sign them for my u20 with only purpose to sell them and gain profit) and every single year counts for me.

Tactic works really good considering that my players are all young and untrained and dont have the quality they have in my other save. I have the Standard one as my starting and depending on situations an Attacking one (all others the same exept Full backs on Attack) and one Contain plus Waste time and play Safer.

In 30 games (cups and league) i scored 53 and conceeded 22 (4 free kicks, 4 penalties).

22 wins, 4 draws, 4 loses.

I am in February 2014 and already won Olympiakos 2 times and draw once. Two cup matches and one league. One home win and one away which is pretty fantastic.

I am now trying to play exactly the same without the offside trap to see how it goes.

If it goes how i plan i will continue. If not i ll return to the other.

Well i dont thing it can go bad because i already have huge problems with my squad*** and it still works

***Lost my one quick defender for months (injurie)

Relations with Trianta (my second and last wuick DEF) are f*** up because i fined him for being dismissed in a match

The same with Koutroubis because i wasnt using him. They both have Very Low Morale and want to leave.

and finally lost for months with injuries my first choises Striker and DM.

They only problem with the tactic is the cards. I am first in my league with 43 in 24 games and first in Red with 4. But i am not going to change that because it really helps me in winning balls. And i ve already found two tactics when i play with ten. Remove DM, put MCs to DM positions and my striker to AM strata as an SS.

[HTC]

Lazaros Lambrou is the best talent we have in our academies. Recently he signed a full time contract alongside Neumann, Staikos, Angelopoulos (the one i mentioned before) Myrthianos, Ymeraj and the tweo keepers, Kotsaris and Gekas.

[jamez_b]

Yeah i've seen the youtube videos and he looks class, hopefully he'll be able to develop in Athens rather than be poached by one of Europe's elite.

Neumann is now my backup for Ninis and seems to put a shift in if called upon and i think i'll keep him on going even though i have two polish wonder kids on loan from Monaco.

Staikos is on loan at my feeder club Cercle Brugge and seems to be doing well. He played for Apollon Limassol the season before and was one of their stand out players but i don't think they can afford him.

Angelopoulos made his first team debut in the cup last night but the coaches only rate him 2 star even though his stats are pretty good.

Myrthianos is my 4th choice left back behind Chouchoumis, Kurzawa and Lombardi and i'm trying loan him out but no one is interseted. Played in Cyprus the last few seasons and did well.

Ymeraj is probably 3rd choice creative active midfielder and is on loan at OFI but seems to be doing the business for them so may consider him as an squad player next season.

Kostaris is my third choice keeper behind Kapino and Tabakis but feel like he might have to move on to get first team football.

Gekas is on loan but will leave at the end of the season when his contract expires.

It was a bad night on FM last night, i lost to liverpool in the champions league after Kapino chucked the ball straight to their striker FIerro and he scored then Lagos gave away a penalty. They ended up with 6 CCCs against me and i should have lost about 4 or 5 -0 in the end. We had 3 really good chances to get ourselves back into the match and missed all of them. It was one of the worst performance i've seen in my time as manager and i have no reason why, there was just no effort and i don't think i saw one player get above a jog all match even though normally they are so quick and incisive. It's only October as well so they can't possibly be tired already.

Anyway put that one behind me and went up against AEK and was 3-0 up within 25 minutes and i thought that maybe we were turning a corner....then had to endure 60 minutes of utter rubbish involving Ninis getting sent off for 2 stupid yellows, missing easy chances and giving away stupid opportunities. Finish 3-1 but it was just the lackluster performance for 60 minutes of the game that worries me. Even moving to a more intensive pressing tactic was like trying to get stone statues to close down the ball.

Morale is high, no one seems pissed off so i haven't got a clue what is wrong with them and why it's so hard to take a simple chance. It's not as if it's a new trick they need to learn, they've had no problem scoring the last few seasons.

Urgh i'm just out of love with FM at the moment as every time i play i get frustrated, even when i'm winning. Just feel like the team is going backwards this season not forward.

I've been playing a few other side games that i started ages ago, Dinamo Bucharest, Maccabi Haifa and Debrecen. All with different tactics and styles and all have the same problem. Miss easy chances and then concede stupid goals, maybe it's just a phase i'm going through at the moment with FM.

[HTC]

I see you kept them all. Plus the Argentinians, we have the same philosophy This French LB is great too.

I ve been there and there is no explantion really. The only think i can say is maybe more aggressive and demanding teamtalks.

Finished my first season in the new save, won the championship and won olympiakos again away. (three wins one draw this year). Insua (left full back from Boca) has been my best player in the season, giving 5 assists and scoring 6, although he is a Defend duty full back. Pranjic next as a DW, 8 goals 10 assists. Trianta and Risvanis my CDs finished season with average over 7. And i ve got at average 4 goals 4 assists from my BBMs (Zeca, Amorim, Renato Augusto). My purpose is to buy players with good Workrate, Teamwork, Tackling, Marking, Strenght for ALL positions. Even for Wingers. I love the way the tactic defends. Even if a striker gets in front of them they aggressively return in front of him and block him.

[jamez_b]

You've got through a season already?!? God i wish i had that much time to play FM these days. I literally got 2 games in last night as the missus is ill so obviously it does not go down well if i'm ignoring her slowly dying of cold on the sofa while i sit on the floor shaking my head in disbelief at the mistakes i'm seeing on the pitch.

A season takes me at least a few weeks these days but then i do watch every match in either comprehensive or full match mode which is probably why i get even more annoyed as i see every crap pass, missed tackle and stupid mistake. My eyes are everywhere.

Yeah the philosophy is very much established and it meant so much more when we won the champions league and there were 8 greek players in the first 11, all of them came through the Panathinaikos academy as well.

I think if i can get my scoring modjo back then i'll happy again, in this never ending quest for perfection i realise i'm very easily frustrated but that goes for me all walks of life.

The plan to make Panathinaikos the Greek Barcelona is very much coming together now with the structure of the club becoming more and more sustainable, instilling my footballing philosophy across the whole club.

I've even got Katsouranis managing the under 20s now with the coaching team packed full of former Pana players, Vlaovic, Karagounis, Bosnjak, Borrelli, Rocha, Kryigakos, Vokolos, Boumsong etc. Ideally i want Warzycha to be my number 2 but he's still got his heart set on management having managed Apl. Kalamaris a couple of seasons ago. They were relegated and shockingly he's not had a job since so maybe in time he'll think it's best to come and join me. Tempted to give him the Greek Under 21s job in the mean time to see what he can do and hopefully that'll lead him toward a better job.

These are some of my next generation prospects that are now pushing for first team places:

Once dubbed the next Alfredo Di Stefano, he's coming on nicely but suffers from being in Rescaldini's shadow. Big bids are expected for Rescaldini in the summer so it might be time to sell and put my faith in Roberto.

Vlachos arrived from AEK when he was 15 and although he's thrown a few strops about lack of first team football when he was 16, he's really starting to excel in the anchorman role and Lagos should be concerned given some of his recent performances.

I'm guessing the next phase of the philosophy is to create more of possession based football similar to Guardiola whilst still retaining a Plan B. How i play now is mix of both possession and direct football so possession tends to be around the 50 mark most games.

We'll see though, just need to keep evolving i guess to keep ahead of the competition. Sometimes harder said than done.

[HTC]

You've got through a season already?!? God i wish i had that much time to play FM these days. I literally got 2 games in last night as the missus is ill so obviously it does not go down well if i'm ignoring her slowly dying of cold on the sofa while i sit on the floor shaking my head in disbelief at the mistakes i'm seeing on the pitch.

:D:D

Yeah ended it in 2 and a half days. Watching only Key highlights.

This Vlachos guy is exactly what i am looking for my BBM role

I've even got Katsouranis managing the under 20s now with the coaching team packed full of former Pana players, Vlaovic, Karagounis, Bosnjak, Borrelli, Rocha, Kryigakos, Vokolos, Boumsong etc.

You are a real Panathinaikos fan. Did the same with Cisse, Leto and Borelli. Such small details but so nice.

[jamez_b]

That is impressive. I faff too much with analysis, player scouting tactical tweaking etc. so does take a lot longer.

Interesting what you said about Vlachos as BBM as I've always had him marked as a future ball playing centre back. I thought about re-training him as a left back and playing him as a complete wingback but i think his height would be wasted out there and i need him under the high ball.

He's pretty much the opposite of Lagos in the DM position and it gives me a lot more variety even though Lagos tends to get the nod in more important matches due to his experience.

Haha given that I've never been to see them play, let alone Athens I'm not sure i can call myself a true fan but definitely got a soft spot for them. The joy of youtube is being able to go back and watch some of the classic matches and try and incorporate some of the great Pana teams into my philosophy.

What ever happened to Ezquiel Gonzalez? He was class back in the day as the Pana number 10. Found a great highlights video on youtube:

I have Dante Moran Correa as my number 10 but he's still young and more of an understudy for Ninis/Mavrias. Does have a wicked left foot though and definitely reminds me of Gonzalez.

I guess one tactical move i could make is to go strikerless, if i sell Rescaldini and play Moran Correa as more of a Shadow striker/Trequartista. He definitely has the stats for more of that type of player:

Just need to find my Dimitris Saravakos and i'll be sorted.

(Well if Mavrias keeps going as he has been i might have the next Saravakos on my hands.)

[jamez_b]

Revenge is sweet....

I stuffed them even if they did score their only chance which was a 40 yard wonder goal from....Joe Allen.

All i did was drop my three AMs to M L(Wide midfielder with PIs to make him an Inside forward), M C and M R(Wing- Support and after about 60 minutes dropped the CF to being an SS in the AM C position with Moran Correa replacing Rescaldini as i felt he was isolated. Worked a treat as Moran Correa scored the 3rd.

Positional heat map below:

Good coverage though i think i still need Ninis a bit further forward as he's too close to the anchor man. Think i'll switch him back to the AM on AP - support and play him alongside Correa playing SS or with Rescaldini/Gonzalez up front as CF.

The only annoying thing is having to retrain Danny Villalva as a M L as he's unconvincing even though he's playing exactly the same role as he does at AM L just seems to benefit the defense on the pesky left hand side.

I don't like the look of the formation on paper but it seems to give me exactly the same shape i had with my asymmetrical formation yet i'm able to score goals again.

The next match i beat OFI:

16 Half chances and 0 CCC with 4 goals and the shots were coming in from all the normal places as my champions league winning tactic they just seem to finish them:

So i've got some tweaking to do as ideally i'm not ready to go strikerless just yet as Rescaldini is one of my best players so i'll need to work out the best way to do that.

You completed another season yet? How is the next tactic faring? Any tweaks yet?

In real life another great win for Pana last night, fingers crossed you don't get docked 3 points but if they keep playing like they are then there is no reason why they can't get that Champions League spot. Even if they don't the Europa League will be a good chance to see Pana back in Europe again. Are they already guaranteed that for winning the cup?

[HTC]

Last night i spended most of the time building my squad for next season. Unfortunatelly i didnt make the transfers i had in mind. Couldnt find for example a left winger with good defence attributes. So i loaned Stafylidis who is ineffectual for this position and training him for there. I also bough Kourbelis to replace Mendes who left, Speroni for free to have a descent second keeper and i signed for free Vellios who i had last year as a loan. I managed to play only my friendlies and two matches. First one against Ofi, won 3-1 and second olympiakos away in which i was lucky to steal a draw. They had 14 shots (8 long though, tactic still works), 2 cccs but i didnt do anything attacking (4 shots, all off target, 1 half chance). I got a red card in 60th minute so i am happy.

Again. i cant actually believe you know Saravakos. He is a legend for us, he is a player he was so great that he made children at his period to start loving Panathinaikos just for him. I think i ve found a guy that can be the new him. I have him in my eye, i tryied to signed him this year with some 48 months installments but he didnt want to come. His name is Guido Vadala

Perfect win against Liverpool you are playing as a Champions League holder with your academy based side, which is so great.

One question, did you tried to unlearn from Marinakis the Get Further Forward or the Dive to tackles? Or are those ppms fit your tactic? And what tweaks have you made for finishing?

What Anastasiou is doing cant be described with words. He took 15 new young players and he is cruising with them. Berg (he insisted so badly to take him) is on fire. Such a great professional. What we have for surtain after winning the cup is the Europa League play offs. This team is already in our hearts so badly. They won Olympiakos 3-0 away, they won the cup when many people said in start of the year they may be fighting for relegation and they easily could qualify for Champions League which means they could save the club from the finance problems we have.

[HTC]

Played a couple of matches in my league (one win and one draw using my backups to keep em happy (long term problem in FM. A player lower quality should me more forgiving when he isnt often used)) and my first champions league game.

everything was going by plan (playing for draw and maybe steal a win) when in 45th minute a player of mine with low pressure (playing nervouslly all the time) concceded a penalty. And that was it (this was their CCC). Changed to my Attacking tactic in 70th minute, nothing happened, happy with their try we keep going

[jamez_b]

Some good signings for your second season there, and in my game Stayifilidis is my first choice left back for the national side and plays week in, week out for Leverkusen.

I like the look of Vellios but just never got round to signing him as Berg and Zapata were my main men. Think he should do a job for you up front all the same.

Unlucky result against Man Utd, i think success in the champions league takes time with Pana but only conceding a penalty against Man Utd has a lot of positives. Looks like you've got my shooting problem though

Nah just left Marinakis as he is and he does the job though does get quite a few yellow cards but don't mind too much as he always puts 100% effort him. Have him playing as FB - Attack so having the get forward whenever possible PPM work nicely. Him and Mavrias are pretty deadly down that side as i get Marinakis to cut inside so him and Mavrias often switch positions going forward which throws the oppositions defenders off. We then miss the chance they create but the build up play is excellent.

Do you know anywhere (can be in Greek as i can use Google translate) that will give me a more detailed analysis of Anastasiou tactics? From what i can find on the web and see on the youtube and daily motion video it is mostly around a 4-3-3 with high pressing and a direct style of football. I'm pretty much implementing the same philosophy in my new tactic i'm developing and that beat liverpool 3-1. Just want to be able to link it back to the way the team is playing in real life but obviously i'll be using better players.

I only really know these Panathinaikos greats from the research I've done. Got a real passion for history in general so enjoy going back and reading about the great teams and players who have played for Panathinaikos. I grew up watching the likes of Warzycha, Karagounis and Gonzalez play in the Champions League but that was late 90s early 2000s so my knowledge of Pana before then is pretty minimal.

Just been spending more time researching the past to increase my knowledge and build some of the history into my current save as i think it just adds an extra element to keep me interested. Obviously anything you can tell me/website that are worth visiting would be greatly appreciated. I'm keen to learn all i can about the Greens.

[HTC]

I will be VERY happy to provide you with info.

Some links first of all.

1. This is the greek "zonal marking" : http://www.overlap.gr/category/panathinaikos/

2.

This is the Cup Final (full games)

3. and this is the 0-3 derby against olympiakos :

Anastasiou started using the classic dutch 4-3-3

Two CWBs, Nano, Marinakis. Both attacking heavy the wings and playing overlaps all the time

One BPD, Koutroubis or Risvanis and one CD, Trianta or Sildefeld. Koutroubis runs with ball and try through balls often (its something he learned from Henk Ten Cate. Chelsea fans will know. Thats exactly what they did under his managment)

One Regista (or Halfback. He returns to defence as a halfback but he also is the first creator so, dont know), Mendes

Two CMs (best way to describe them), Zeca and Pranjic

Two Inside forwards, Klonaridis (or Ntinas) and Karelis (or Bajrami)

And a CFs (or TMs, or F9) Berg who does everything.

Short quick passing. Extreme Roaming and off the ball movement. Variety in attacking methids. Attacking both in middle and wings. EXTREME but PLANNED and worked PRESSING. (It reminds me Barcelona, really :S)

Now after a unstable start because players were all new in the club AND in the style of play, plus the fact that we also had Figueroa, he changed the formation to 4-1-2-1-2.

He also transfer Trianta to right back because he wasnt happy with Marinakis defending and he placed Figueroa next to Berg.

So it became something like this.

Nano CWB left

Trianta FBs (with Get furhter forward. He doesnt get so attacking as Nano, but he often DOES)

DCs the same.

DM the same.

MCs the same.

AM (Abeid or Ajagun) is like a secret CF. Dont know if the SS is the appropriate role. They always make aggressive vertical moves to opposition area , to score. Same thing like Ten Cate did with us, with Katsouranis which led him to score 8 goals in our first half of the season 2009-2010, and is a scoring record for us, for a midfielder. Record which is broken this year by Abeid.

Now forward when we had Figueroa it was the classic one deep one TM type of duo. Berg was coming back, Figueroa was the "Target Man". When Figueroa left and because of the injurie of Bajrami (Karelis isnt so good as an IF), We kept the same formation (until now) but instead of Figueroa the second man is either Karelis or Klonaridis. The difference is that they play more as IFs. Its like a 4-1-2-1-1 plus a hybrid IF/DLFs (Karelis or Klonaridis) in the opponents weakest side.

Anyway the best way to describe his philosophy is the dutch style.

Also :

1. He CAN actually make it happen into the field. Because in theory everyone can play the dutch style, is the process that is difficult.

2. He MASSIVELY improved EVERY SINGLE PLAYER. Trianta is now a descent full back who crosse good. Koutroubis is 10 times better than Sariegi or Vyntra who were turnover (mistake) machines. Mendes is like Gilberto Silva. Zeca, my God he runs all the time and cover all the field. He is an endlessly stamina BWM/BBM. Pranjic doesnt make an obvious difference but his quality helps a lot in our attacks. Karelis was NOBODY an he has already the numbers (in assists anf goals) Leto had. Klonaridis has over 8 goals. Mavrias who was one of our best players last year (and took a 5 million transfer to Sunderland) ended the season with only 2 goals...And Berg, he is the best Striker ever came here alongside Warchycha (we made a new song for him with the same rythm of the Warchycha one just to make clear this) and Cisse. He has 20 goals and 10 assists. Nano was a Secunda Division solid (all years he had 40 apperances) left winger and he turn to be the best by far DL in our league. Ajagun was nobody. He was playing for a team named Dolphins. He is now our key player for our good pressing. Abeid was a non techniqual gifted MC. He is now one of our favorites scoring so many goals coming from deep. Plus he scored the third goal against olympiakos. Lagos is already named our new Basinas. And it continues. EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IS BETTER. There isnt A SINGLE exception. You can see that by starting a new save and see the attribute updates. They are spot on. (Karelis should be a little better though). Berg should be a lot better but the Greek researche guys didnt want to risk huge changes i suppose.

3. He made the players a family choosing the right CHARACTERS. He gave Zeca a psychology lift up giving him the 10 and the armbrand.

4. He studies every single opponent. He underestimates noone and nothing. He says often in Press Confernaces that if the players are concentrated to what we work in training, we can beat ANYONE. And you BELIEVE HIM. In scouting we have massive help from his first assistant. He is an English man, you may know him. Steve Rutter.

5. Our Stamina is exelent. Thanks to his choise in Fitness coach. Jusef Vos.

6. and finally

this guy that leads the team to the pondium were they lift the cup, is DIMITRIS SARAVAKOS. He is our chief of staff this year.

and its very possible that he plays Football Manager. You can see it from some things he says in Press Conferances. They are the same as in FMs He even has teamtalks which leaked in Cup Final. He wrote them in the board those things. I am copying them from the article, i am not imagining them

concentration-determenation

the will to do more for my team

we play quick move without the ball

faith to the team and ourselves

Enjoy

Whatever else you want ask me.

[jamez_b]

Great post HTC, really appreciate the detail and will have a closer look at that website tomorrow at work.

I've just had to leave FM for the night as the shooting issue is driving me up the wall.

I've having a beer and a rethink but am running out of ideas. :-(

[Petros7]

Can I just say, as an Olympiakos Piraeus fan, who sat at age 8 at the Apostolos Nikolaidis stadium and watched Semertzidis score the winning goal for my team against Panathinaikos (my first time at a match) and having seen so many matches between those two through the years (whether at home or at the ground) and on some occasions actually sat amongst the Panathinaikos fans (quietly ), I was very surprised and happy to see them beat us 3-0 this year at our own back yard playing with a perfectly executed plan throughout the whole match. It was mesmerizing and totally humbling!

Anastasiou has shown that he learned so much while he was abroad and has managed to instill his ideas and philosophies to his young team to such an extend that I believe he can turn out to be the best ever Greek manager - I certainly wish him all the luck in the world! He may be lucky in that expectations were low for this year, but even during the slow start you could see he was building something from the ground up and moulding his players into what he wanted them to play like.

I'll be following his career. And this thread mostly for the memories you've both invoked. Now I need to go wash my mouth with soap as I've been praising the enemy for far too long!

[jamez_b]

Nice to have an Olympiakos fan involved in the discussion as well. Are you playing as Olympiakos on your game Petros7 or as someone different? Would be good to get a wider discussion going on tactics in the Greek Superleague and how you maintain the dominance and putting the Greek Superleague back on the map.

HTC - I've read the analysis on the Cup final match and I like the thought of the 4-1-2-1-2 narrow diamond however how to Pana counter the threat down the flanks? Or do Zeca and Pranjic push wide and act more like WM than CMs? Where does Lagos slot into the system? Interchanging with Mendes da Silva for Regista or one of Zeca and Pranjic?

I'm tempted to try something similar though my personnel are very much geared to a traditional 4-3-3. Could keep the 4-3-3 shape and just adjust the pressing areas slightly.

Would you say that Berg and Karelis track back and press or is their job only to press the defensive players and if the ball bi-passes them then the midfielders take over? Or is it a case of the whole team presses everywhere? (Just thinking whether i should be operating as very fluid/fluid or balanced.)

So in terms of my results last night it seems my results against Liverpool and OFI were a false omen...the dreaded shoot...miss disease is back. It's even spread to the Greek National team even if we did manage to scrape past Belarus in the WC playoff thanks to a 1-0 win in Belarus.

So a few examples of what i mean:

Now this was just a friendly but should have done a lot better but when you look at some of the chances missed it's pulling out my hair stuff:

Lombardi hits the post but it's ok because it bounces out straight to Nikoletos:

He's got an open goal and surely it's an easy chance....

Nope hits the post again....

The next match with Greece:

CCC for the wonderkid Giantsis and although not the easiest of chances but the goalie saves.

CCC for Feftiziadis and this one really is an chance he should bury....goalie saves.

CCC for Donis, breaks free of the defense after excellent movement and pass from Ninis and even though last season he put these kind of chances away for fun he boots it straight at the keeper.

Another CCC for Donis and maybe not the easiest of chances but lets be honest we've all seen the opposition score from here with their 1 token shot on target every game. Needless to say the keeper pulls off a wonder save to deny Donis again.

There were a number of other chances where really the players should have done better but scraped through. On another day though the finishing in front of goal could have cost us a place in the WC so i need to fix it somehow.

Final game of the night was away at Apollon, surely i could finish a few more chances than against Belarus and Ulsan....

No bloody chance.

Villalva had this effort...saved

Leto had a CCC...saved

Tzorvas denies Ninis again

Now i appreciate not all of those chances are ones that your Gran can score but still one of them has got to go in at some point. I'm really at a loss as to what i can change to improve our finishing other than chopping the goalie's arms off and making the goals double the size.

I played strikerless against Belarus in a 4-1-4-1 with an AM C and then my usual formation below against Apollon and my attacking pressing tactic against Ulsan.

Champions League Winning Tactic:

Mavrias was top scorer in the Champions League last season and finished the season with 20 goals i think whereas this season by December he's scored 2. Has as many chances as he did last season but now he either misses them or the keeper saves them. Confidence is high and he's a winger so in theory shouldn't be as affected by not scoring goals as a striker would.

Attacking Pressing Tactic (i know it shows Romania below but i just saved and imported straight to my pana game):

Don't have the Greece one to hand but the instructions are the same as the attacking press tactic.

So anyway that's my slightly long predicament i have at the moment. Got intensive attacking training going on at the moment in order to get the team ready for the World Club Championships which are what await me when i get home this afternoon.

If i can't shoot i won't win so need a solution quick.

[HTC]

Actually the formation indeed turns into 4-4-2 in some games WHEN DEFENDING.

Mendes and Pranjic CMs and Abeid and Zeca the WMs.

But eitherway, when opposition plays whith attacking full backs, there are people to double up our full backs.

Dont know what to say about your shooting problem. Maybe opposition became too afraid of you after winning CL so their ultra defensive mentality helps them defend you? Dont know :S What i would do if i was you, try to have three players with good finishing/composure/decisions.

I didnt play anymore of my save, didnt have the time, just dreaming the squad i will have in two years play time and i will stick to it until my players become 32-33 years old. With top of my thinking being Guido Vadala as an AMR. He is perfect. Great Workrate and Teamwork, plus Messi attributes in Passing, Finishing, Dribbling, Technique (with the right training).

@petros7 kalws ton

[HTC]

MY GOD this game.......

end of first half : http://oi62.tinypic.com/x0pj4k.jpg

72 minute, i get a red card : http://oi57.tinypic.com/iqzzp2.jpg

red card was a free kick, Direct goal from Saviola

88th minute, second yellow card, penalty (this is their CCC), goal.

http://oi62.tinypic.com/34sjzo2.jpg

[jamez_b]

Oh the joys of FM, the old "I'm going to kick you in the nuts really hard" game. In football it's just one of those things, in FM you can see it coming. Still i guess Olympiakos is always a tricky game especially away from home. It could be worse you could be drawing 0-0 with Xanthi at home after thinking you've finally turned the corner and find a way to score goals consistently.

So my weekend started off with plenty more of the rubbish shooting that has plagued me all season. I decided to just stick to my guns tactically as we were creating the chances and surely we'd turn the corner eventually and start finishing our chances. A 4-1 win against Sarajevo to win the Champions League group made me think we were potentially turning the corner. Next game though was a ridiculous game in the Club World Championship semi final, i thought i was going to go out such were the ridiculous misses. Luckily though a tap in that Rescaldini couldn't really miss (he tried bloody hard to) sent the game to extra time and the introduction of Moran Correa saw him grab 2 goals and assist another for Rescaldini.

Seems like a battering though bear in mind the number of shots and chances we did miss it was driving me insane for 80 minutes. Why can't you bloody score?!?! ARGH

Ridiculous shot maps:

Here was Vokolos' take on the game and the player stats:

Luckily though we got through and then battered Tigres 3-0 in the final to secure my 5th trophy of the calendar year and more money and fame toward establishing Panathinaikos on the footballing map.

Yesterday I had a really good session taking a win from every game and actually finishing some chances against sides that i normally struggle to break down. Then Xanthi came along....and it was like winding the clock back 3 months, absolutely shocking in front of goal which wasn't helped by Xanthi making no attempt to play whatsoever. Finished 0-0 and just when it was starting to look like we might start to build a bit of a gap between ourselves and Olympiakos.

Plus points are that i finally won Manager of the Year award, it's took me to win pretty much everything available and lead Greece to the world cup to win it. Still surprised that Panionios manager didn't beat me to it after leading his team to 2nd in the league after 4 months in charge. Actually looking at it the award seems to only take into account what has happened in half a season and not who actually won the league, cup or any international honours. Wonder if that is a bug?

Funnily enough guess who plays for Panionios...

Seems to be having a good season and wouldn't be surprised if he's on to bigger things in the summer alongside a few other Panionios players who really have impressed.

In terms of tactical changes i think i'm going to stick with the two options I've got for the moment and then come June/July it'll be time to build a new tactic, potentially looking at same 4-3-3 shape but mixing it up a bit but we'll see.

Another good win for Pana again yesterday and no points deduction? Do you think they can keep going and get the CL qualification spot?

[HTC]

45 shots OH MY GOD........Did you watch that game in Extended or full match?

I have the feeling that if you replace two of your 4 (Ninis, Donis, Leto, Villalva) attacking midfielders with players with good Finishing and composure you will completely break the game with your cohesive Club Workd Champion team

And those passes from your Playmaker. So nice to see your tactic working that good.

This was my FM 13 Club World Championship final. I was more amused from my way of play than the cup itself

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/attachments/football-manager-2013-tactics-training/298737d1357674800-mr-langvatns-underdog-beast-1zv34wi.png

I currently having fun with a tactic based on the Sam Allardyse one in tactical theorems.

GK distributing long to my TM

Hold position to my 4 defenders.

Ease off tackles to my AP

Get furhter forward to my two DWs (tactical theorems translated those roles as DW with attack duty)

Shoot less often were availiable.

So nice to see :

1. My DWs making interceptions and tackles (they are natural CWBs)

2. My TM winning KEY headers.

3. My team being so hard to brake and...

4. ...make deadly counters were possible or dominate the game when opponent is worst.

5. Scoring from some nice set pieces i ve setup.

Just beaten Zenit away 3-0. Never threaten me in the match.

And won first years league unbeatable and conceeding only 15 goals.

I know IT WONT LAST. But ok... Its so nice to see your ideas implemented into the field.

PS. Yes no points deduction finally. I am not positive at all that we will enter the groups. So many good teams to pass through. In third knocked out round we will face on of : Lille, Zenit, Kopenhagen, Standard Liege, Besiktas. IF WE PASS that round we then have to face one of : Arsenal, Porto, Leverkuzen, Napoli, Athletic Bilbao.

This team has very low salaries and already battered olympiakos away and won the cup. If they save our finances (because that will happen if we enter CL groups) we then will talk about the fairytaile story.

[jamez_b]

Watched the game in comprehensive...was seriously painful to watch. I think what is frustrating is i know that they can all do it given their stats from last season. I don't know what has changed as they still get into the same positions and ahve the same chances but whereas last season they put them away, this season they miss.

I'm almost at the end now so i can just start a fresh with a new tactic and see if that sparks them back in to life. I slowed the tempo down and beat Apollon 6-0 the game after losing to PAOK (the first time i've scored more than 4 goals all season) and thought that the lose and given them the kick up the backside they needed. Sadly it didn't last and a 1-0 win at home to Red Star, a painful to watch 2-0 win over Kuwait with the Greek National team and then a 2-1 win over Aris at home in the cup led me to give up for the night.

Obviously i'm winning these games which is great but against inferior opposition and as the PAOK game showed the team in general is really not firing on all cylinders and now Aranguiz has fallen out with me after i shouted at them after the loss to PAOK.

Champions League quarter final against Dortmund though i suspect i won't be getting much further given the performance of most of my players this season.

I'm top of the league by 9 points yet only 1 of my players are in the top 20 League ratings and that is my right back Marinakis. I win games but on the whole have played poorly all season. Maybe i'm just too much of a perfectionist just feels like after last season i was making massive strides and this season has just has been a bit of a let down in terms of performance yet is still wielding results so can't complain too much i guess.

[HTC]

Slowing down tempo was a nice thought. Try learn to Villalva and Leto the Place Shots ppm, because they both have good technique.

I am crusing in the league. Conceeded 1 goal in 8 matches. Won olympiakos 3-0 away.

Champions League is again a problem. After winning Zenit my expectations went high until i got battered by Chelsea at home.

1-5 lose. It was mostly a Kapino bad night i think, because they werent so much better.

10-13 shots.

2-4 CCCs.

2-2 half chances.

2-3 long shots.

They had 63% possesion though, but the thing is that all goals where quick counters, after a quick counter of mine were we lost the ball in the attacking third. They found the opening and there it is. Willian, Hazard and Diego Costa killed me.

Then i had two league matches. 3-0 and 1-0 win.

Paris away, 2-0 lose again. 10-8 shots, 1-0 cccs, 2-2 half chances. Again they werent that better. One goal from penalty and one long shot.

i am in a huge dillema. Drop deeper when huge underdog, or push higher+offside.

The second worked better in an another save of mine, but then i had players with descent attributes for offside trap.

Now Trianta, Risvanis, Marinakis etc are in development (I train them in Tactics in generall training. I remember in FM 13 after 7-8 years they had concentration 20 because of that training. Huge development in Decisions too, which is such a key attribute)

[jamez_b]

Sounds like things are going well HTC. I am having the strangest season and although I've just secured the league again i don't feel overly excited by that achievement. Averaging ratings in general have dropped by about 0.3 which is quite a drop in performance across a whole season.

The low tempo, keep possession tactic was a false dawn with the goals drying up after about 3 games and to add to that my defense started leaking goals. 1 shot, 1 goal you know the drill.

The only thing i can put it down to is complacency of my players in the league now as in the Champions League it is a different story. A 2-0 win against Dortmund at home followed by a 1-1 draw in Germany has seen me in the Champions League Semi-Final against Man City.

I mean watching the games in the champions league matches shows me how well my team can play and follow instructions. They don't miss tackles, they read the game and make interceptions, Kapino is a cat between the sticks. Such a contrast to watching a lot of the league games this season. The story of most league games this season has been excellent build up play resulting in a chance that goes anywhere but the back of the net. Of course goals do go in eventually else i wouldn't have won the league, just so many errors happen before that i can't even enjoy when one does go in. It is always "about bloody time" rather than "Cracking bit of play and what a finish, i enjoyed that!"

I donno I'm just ranting as i've not been enjoying FM the last few weeks, just trying to hammer through games and get this season out of the way. I'll no doubt go and beat Man City now and win the Champions League again such is the way my season is going.

I have thought about getting Leto to place shots as I think Villalva already has it, i think though a lot of the missed chances of the missed chances come from the player trying to place the ball into the keepers hands rather than hit the ball with some power.

I just wish there was more you could do in the FM with the player management side of things. I want to be able to go in and ask the team why their performance dropped this season, set individual targets for next season, get advice from coaches as to what they think can be improved, what teams and tactics we struggled against and potential reason why. Sadly though i think that side of the game is a while away yet.

In terms of defensive line when the underdog i find that high line, offside trap can work very well as the bigger team doesn't often expect it.

I've found a few teams starting to play high line against me in Greece (atromotis and PAOK) and it is bloody effective.

So needs some ideas for real life manager styles to replicate whilst retaining a 4-3-3, the more relevant to Greece and Pana the better. What about some of the great Pana teams from the 60s, 70s and 80s?

[jamez_b]

A bit of a break down of player stats, last season versus this season:

Season 2016/2017

Season 2017/2018

[HTC]

I ve read the topic from the start and realize that i ve been ridicullus on how many times i ve started over after saying that i found a tactic that works.

Well this is exactly my experience of Football Manager 2014. I cant find consistency.

Anyway i will stick to it because i am sick of building squad all over again.

10 matches in my league, 1 goal conceeded, 9 wins, 1 draw.

Third match in Champions League, and this happens

So unfair and frustrating.

One goal from corner (after billiard, because i dont conceed from direct corners if i have a tall player in my near post) and one goal from Direct Free Kick, in which my TALL and defensive players in the wall, DIDNT JUMP.

[jamez_b]

It is amazing though that no matter how frustrating you find the game sometimes you always come back for more and something out of the blue will happen and you are back to feeling good about playing FM. Frustrating result against PSG especially when you've played that well to restrict them to so few chances. Sadly the set pieces is a key weapon for away sides and if you don't finish your chances then the likelihood is that you are going to get punished.

Though remember my record i set in the Champions League earlier on in my game, 19 matches or something without winning, 15 of them score draws and most of them came from corners.

Then the season i finally broke my winless run i go on and win the whole competition, it's a funny old game. We love it just the same.

In terms of finding my next Warzycha though....i think i've found him in the form of Mateusz Wozniak, a regen i have on loan from Monaco. He's 19 and hit 22 goals for the Under 20s this season from the inside left position (not quite the Warzycha position but he is Polish so it's a start ) Anyway he's had a run in the first team recently as Villalva got injured and he's hit 6 goals in 4 apperances including two excellent goals against Dortmund. Almost signed him on a free but agreed a new 1 year deal with monaco but did manage to renew his loan deal so plan to get him on a free next season and start to really push Danny Villalva for that inside left.

I tell you for all the negatives this season there have been two players who have players that have really performed better than i expected, Leto and Stamatkis.

Now obviously i know what Leto can do from previous FMs but apart from that all important equalizer against Benfica in CL final, he had a pretty average season by his standards. However this season he's been excellent playing on the right wing and cutting in and has scored a 11 with that wicked left foot of his. Him and Moran Correa have both been giving Mavrias a run for his money and definitely given me the chance to mix things up a bit when Mavrias is having a bad game.

Stamatkis on the other hand found himself 4th choice for the CM - Attack position at the start of the season behind Donis, Aranguiz and Anastopolous. However selling Anastopolous to Parma in January, an injury to Donis and Aranguiz throwing a hissy fit after the performance against Red Star, Stamatkis has been given a chance. He hasn't disappointed and has been scoring important goals both from the start and from off the bench and if Donis doesn't up his game then he could find his position under threat.

I'm thinking probably some of the complacency this season has been caused by me having a very settled team. I have a very clear first 11 that know each other inside out. It should be a benefit that they work so well together however i feel that it could have caused some of the complacency. I'm now very willing to drop Ninis, Mavrias, Villalva, Rescaldini, Donis and Lagos if they are not performing. Neumann, Moran Correa, Wozniak, Gonzalez, Stamatkis and Vlachos are all in a position to challenge the senior players for a starting spot.

Big season next season to try and get back to our best in the league.

Still interested to see who takes over at Olympiakos as Advocaat is retiring. Only lost 3 this season so they are very much rejuvinated after missing out on champions league last season. PAOK seem to be getting back to their best under Slaven Bilic and Atromotis, Aris, Panionios and Xanthi are all emerging a tricky opposition. Just want to see them go further in Europe and boost our ratings further.

[jamez_b]

Sooo been an interesting week of FM full of highs and lows for the mighty Panathinaikos and Greece. Firstly after my last post i was in a bit of a downer on how the season had gone and how the players had been performing. Anyway in true FM style i continued to frustrate in the league after securing another title my poor finishing again led to 1-1 draws with Kavala, Ap. Kalamaris and Iraklis. Champions League however i managed to dispatch of Dortmund 3-0 in the Quarter finals to set up a semi final clash with Man City....

Now given a few days earlier i'd drawn at home with Kavala having missed over 20 shots, i found myself drawing 2-2 with Man City scoring only 2 of my shots on target. Another 1-1 draw with Ap. Kalamaris followed before the home leg where i scored 1 of my 3 chances to book myself a place in the Champions League final for the second year running.

Could i do it again? Barcelona were my opponents...I thought that really the only way to go was to focus on my attacking given that i knew if I could create chances i needed to be able to put them away. My assistant said i should concentrate on defending set pieces but i ignored him, i know best after all? 2 days later Kapino comes down with food poisoning and will miss the final....i'm starting to think something is a foot here.

Big game came....final score:

Panathinaikos 0 - 4 Barcelona - 4 bloody corners?!?!?! I've conceded maybe 1 or 2 all season and my set piece defending is normally really good so to concede 4 to a team that is not known for scoring its goals from corners was a real kick in the balls. Urgh was not happy especially as I played it just after a fall out with the missus, bad idea.

Another final appearance has done wonders for the stature of the club and the league with the Greek Superleague now up to 9th and the league now rakes in a 100 million quid a season (47 million is Panathinakos but still). Shirt sales in Japan are booming with Mavrias and Ninis shirts popping up all of Yokohama and 2 Japanese youth internationals have joined my Under 20s. PAOK and Olympiakos both have links with Japanese clubs now and a home friendly against Japan will hopefully boost the football link between Japan and Greece further.

So a good season in terms of results just not maybe so much in terms of performance on the pitch but hopefully the players can knuckle down and we can move forward.

Before i could start pre-season though i had the World Cup to guide Greece through. Having qualified via the playoffs i didn't hold much hope of getting any further than 2014 where i went out to eventual winners Cameroon.

Things didn't get any better after my first home friendly saw me lose to Canada....that was followed by a 4-3 loss to Chile, 3-2 loss to Japan and a 2-1 win over Zambia. Not exactly promising and my continual frustration with international football continued. So i just thought i'd keep the same tactic and see what happened.

I've set up to play a possession style game, keeping the ball and attack down the flanks with the creators in the middle. CWBS and IFs down the flanks, a F9 and a CM Attack, AP - support and a DLP in the DM position. (I'll get some screenshots tomorrow as i forgot to put them on my Google drive before work).

So first match saw us struggle to overcome a plucky Costa Rica 1-0 and it wasn't exactly a promising start. Then next match was against Venezuela...

What happened next i wasn't expecting and having been absolute rubbish in the run up to the world cup suddenly the team game alive and i won 6-0. A game against Portugal left me with a chance to win the group and an excellent defensive display saw us win 1-0 and win the group. That set up a second round tie with Italy...

Another excellent counter attacking performance (by luck rather than judgement as i'm supposed to be retaining possession..) and some woeful shooting from the Italians saw us scrape through 2-1 and setup a quarter final meeting with Japan.

Now in the friendly they'd absolutely battered us and so when we faced up once more using seemingly the exact same formations and tactics i wasn't hopeful. Especially when after 3 minutes the Japanese were ahead after 1 player beat 5 and scored. Wasn't expecting what happened over the next 87 minutes though, the goals just kept flying in and by the end of the game the Japanese looked shell shocked...the score was 5-1 to Greece.

I'm baffled by this point as to how the same team and tactics produce such a different performance anyway surely it was going to come to an end soon and with a semi final date against a free scoring Argentina and tired squad i wasn't hopeful.

Greece 3 - 0 Argentina....10 CCC for Greece?!?! I couldn't believe what i was watching, we just scythed Argentina apart with them unable to cope with the movement of Mavrias and Fortounis on the flanks. So i was in the final....

...against Mexico?!? They defeated Spain in the other Semi.

With both teams worn out the final was a dire affair and the curse of the terrible finishing returned. Mexico hardly had a sniff but could we hit the target? Not a bloody chance. As the game went all the way to penalties without a goal being scored i was thinking the worse and that FM was out to make me quit forever.

Penalties...urgh and i literally had no decent penalty takers on the field and had finished with 10 men as Fortounis had gone off injured. Luckily though i have one thing the Mexicans didn't, a fighting fit Stefanos Kapino...he saved 3 out of 4 and with Neumann, Giantsis, Mavrias and Vlachos holding their nerve I somehow had brought the world cup to Greece. Mental.

Now i'd like to pretend i'm some sort of tactical genius but i'm really not. I'm starting to think more and more that the underdog always has the advantage a little bit too much on this game. I was ranked 25th in the world before the world cup so was definitely a heavily ranked outsider.

I've been screaming at Mavrias to play like he did in the World Cup all season. I'd have been a far happier man if he'd done that.

I'm starting to think that my players have a high number for important matches but their consistency stat is decreasing by the day as i really don't know which Panathinaikos i'm going to get turning up.

I played a load friendlies in Japan and America in pre-season and struggled to score in any of them, losing a few and grab last minute draws against others. I've tried slow tempo, fast tempo, attacking, standard, control, counter, high line, deep line etc. but they've forgotten how to shoot again. ARGHHHHHHH.

Final game last night was league game against Ast. Tripolis and it took until the 80th minute for them to find their shooting boots and break the deadlock. I've never seen so many wonder saves from Dani Hernandez for the other 80 minutes. Thankfully in the last 10 we beat him 3 times so the result wasn't as bad as the performance in the first 80 minutes had been.

I really need to stop watching comprehensive highlights as i frustrate myself more than i have to. I got a 3-0 win right? What is there to complain about?

It's the silly mistakes and the impossible misses that drive me insane at the moment. I just want to enjoy watching my team play.

Anyway that's where i am at. Need to put some screenshots together and explain how i'm wanting my new tactic to work and will try and put something together tomorrow.

How are you getting along?

[HTC]

Just wanted to share the (temporary unfortunatelly as seen from previous saves) fun i have with the game.

What i had in mind was a Very Rigid 4-4-2 with 9 soldiers and two Key Players (RGA and F9) to take the team in their shoulders exploiting the huge empty area in AMC strata.

Tactic is working great in my league (22 matces, 42 scored, 9 allowed, only one loss, two wins against Olympiakos) and just won Juventus away in my first Champions League game of my third year, blocking them perfectly and not allowing them create a single clear cut chance, but some long shots and some harmless chances.

My two key players are Hazard's brother, Thorgan as a F9 and Tachtsidis as a RGA.

I managed to buy Balanta to be my Key Defender and Kakuta just to give a little boost to my wings as my other three players (for two positions) are more hardworkers than creative.

Team Instructions are a copy of Cleons Defensive setup. Never though this set of insstructions were going to work in a combination of Defensive and Very Rigid. Defensive plus Very Rigid plus Shorter - Retain and Drop Deeper, it was a surprise for me that my team actually attacks very well. I was expecting them to just stay behind ball and pass it in my final third beeing toothless.

Sorry for being out jamez, i was so frustrated with the game and put away for a while playing some Fifa 14 and some GTA V

[Torskus77]

I like the look of that set up above, looks very solid. The Regista and F9 roles are something I have been using in my tactics of mine recently, beautiful roles, never tried the F9 in a multiple striker set up, but I can see it working well in that set up, with all the space he has to occupy. I'd imagine that is a very difficult set up to play through.

[HTC]

Indeed they are beatifull especially if you have the right players.

This is my RGA : http://oi60.tinypic.com/2z57n1c.jpg

his backup : http://oi62.tinypic.com/33lm53l.jpg

and this is my F9 : http://oi60.tinypic.com/15yce15.jpg

his backup (18, good potential) : http://oi58.tinypic.com/2lue1rc.jpg

The first choises are new signings, i love them

I think it also helps that my two (first choise and backup) RGAs are Left footed and my two F9 right footed.

They can find their primary targets (RGA -> F9, F9 -> AF) more easily. Some nice passes from either RGA or F9 to my right (att)Winger or Left FB/W too.

I ve given my F9 the More Direct Passes PI and my AF the Move Into Channels.

Yes it is hard to break it, its like Mourinhos park the bus when defending (very deep, all players exept front two (all of them exept Kakuta have descent defensive attributes) inside area) and even if opponent do create a chance through quick passing and good technique its difficult to find space for a good easy shot. I may try offside trap to frustrate them more.

What formation are you using?

[Torskus77]

At the moment in my Walsall save, I have a bit of a weird set up, just been trying different things out really.

It's actually a balanced philosophy, but I am tempted to go rigid with it. I have actually been using an attacking mentality away from home and a standard/counter at home. I had the best away record in the division last season, struggled a bit more at home, but come good when I changed mentality at home to counter. It's not perfect, there are some holes in it I need to sort out, but I like how it attacks a lot. I like the look of your set up a lot though, am just building for next season, my first season of champions league football after finishing 4th in the Premier League, was well chuffed with that.

[HTC]

Well, jamez, i managed to replicate something like Kyrastas did in our great CL run in 2001.

We were playing a 4-2-2-2.

Attacking right back (Seitaridis)

Defensive left back (Fyssas)

Stopper (Kyrgiakos)

Cover (Henriksen)

Anchor (Basinas)

Regista (Paulo Sousa)

Wide Midfielder right with good defensive attributes (Michaelsen)

Wide Midfielder left (Karagounis...Some really funny stories from training. Kyrastas had to convince ...Karagounis to stay on the left side and not cutting inside doing his things )

F9 (or DLF, or SS, cant really remember...Vlaovic, or Liberopoulos)

AF (or TM, Konstantinou, or Olisadebe)

The approach he was using was deep hard and teamwise defending and very slow possesion until we find space to attack when in attack

[llama3]

Just wanted to share the (temporary unfortunatelly as seen from previous saves) fun i have with the game.

What i had in mind was a Very Rigid 4-4-2 with 9 soldiers and two Key Players (RGA and F9) to take the team in their shoulders exploiting the huge empty area in AMC strata.

Tactic is working great in my league (22 matces, 42 scored, 9 allowed, only one loss, two wins against Olympiakos) and just won Juventus away in my first Champions League game of my third year, blocking them perfectly and not allowing them create a single clear cut chance, but some long shots and some harmless chances.

My two key players are Hazard's brother, Thorgan as a F9 and Tachtsidis as a RGA.

I managed to buy Balanta to be my Key Defender and Kakuta just to give a little boost to my wings as my other three players (for two positions) are more hardworkers than creative.

Team Instructions are a copy of Cleons Defensive setup. Never though this set of insstructions were going to work in a combination of Defensive and Very Rigid. Defensive plus Very Rigid plus Shorter - Retain and Drop Deeper, it was a surprise for me that my team actually attacks very well. I was expecting them to just stay behind ball and pass it in my final third beeing toothless.

Sorry for being out jamez, i was so frustrated with the game and put away for a while playing some Fifa 14 and some GTA V

At the moment in my Walsall save, I have a bit of a weird set up, just been trying different things out really.

It's actually a balanced philosophy, but I am tempted to go rigid with it. I have actually been using an attacking mentality away from home and a standard/counter at home. I had the best away record in the division last season, struggled a bit more at home, but come good when I changed mentality at home to counter. It's not perfect, there are some holes in it I need to sort out, but I like how it attacks a lot. I like the look of your set up a lot though, am just building for next season, my first season of champions league football after finishing 4th in the Premier League, was well chuffed with that.

Really impressed with both those systems. They are excellent interpretations of how to make those systems work. Great jobs!

[Torskus77]

Thank you. Would never have got anything like this without the excellent help off this site, none more than your brilliant pairs and combinations thread (you will notice I have tried to use it in my tactic)

To be fair although this tactic fired me to an unlikely Champions League spot, there are some problems with it, I think I just caught teams off guard a little, and it wont be to long before it starts getting exploited, the CM (d) doesn't drop as deep as I'd like, and I really don't want to make him a DLP (d) because I don't want the ball to go through him all the time. I really like HTC's set up, and am thinking about adjusting my tactic to look something like his, but using a F9 SS combo instead of his AF. I think this will make me more solid (much more) but I still should be able to get some good stuff going forward. Got a pre-season to have a play with it all. I'll probably keep the old tactic knocking around for away games though for now, was so deadly on attacking mentality, crucified teams. A 6-1 Everton being the pick of the games, which could have been 15-1 if we could finish CCC's.

[HTC]

Thank you too llama3, really happy that i ve found a combination of 1) a formation i like, 2) having strict roles that actually work in attack 3) being that solid.

Last season turned to be a dissapointment after those great group results. Lost 4-0 from Atletico from set pieces (i didnt gave much attension to my scout telling me to focus on defensive set pieces, and i payed it. No CCCs, just corners and free kicks) and holidayed last 8 league games (was already 10 points behind against an invincible olympiakos) because of my thirst of creating finally the squad i had in mind since started the game.

Now in fourth (second i use this tactic) season things are going great again. Finished Euro Cup group with 5 wins 1 lose (2-1 against Arsenal), scoring 10 conceeding 4, which is fantastic again considering that i was underdog (in odds) in all those matches. In my league i have 10 wins 3 draws 1 lose, mostly because i aggressively rotate my squad and my two second strikers cant score easily. This is going to end as in January 2017 i am landing Carlos Fierro, so now i have three great finishers (Fierro and Vadala as AFs and Hazard as F9) and one great kid - academy product (not regen, real player) as fourth striker.

The squad i have now plus the way the tactic works is the reason i play the game.

Now i will just stick to my current 22 players (25 years old my oldest) for 7-8 years more and i hope with some lack to win CL.

Torkus if you want the CM a click back and keeping the IF where he is, maybe you could try the SS in AMC position. That way you may cover the gap of CM not being close to him anymore. Or keep it as it is and change left CD to Stopper (or LD and Close Down More)

[jamez_b]

Good to see you back in the game HTC and a very interesting tactic you've got going on there. Nice to see Tachitidis cropping up, he came back into the international fold just before the 2018 World Cup in a DLP - Defend position in a possession based 4-1-2-2-1 formation. Very good on the ball and got a hell of a shot on him, though for Panathinaikos I've brought in a similar player in Guido Pizarro.

I'm having a bit of a break from my Panathinaikos game at the moment to experiment a bit more with back 3s, well mostly gone back to my ending quest to try in some shape or form to replicate a Jorge Sampaoli style. Eventually if i crack it it'll be something i look to replicate with Panathinaikos later on.

Nice to see the regista being used again, it was something i used in my first two seasons with Pana to great effect however i've not used it since. However in my CF America game i'm using Jonathan dos Santos as Regista and seems to be working very nicely but only played 3 odd games so far. Over 100 passes completed each game for both him and the AP - CM Osvaldo Martinez.

It'll no doubt all go hopelessly wrong, i'll get fed up and go back to my Panathinaikos game by the weekend.

World Cup has been as good for Greece as it has for England hasn't it? Do you think they can beat the Ivory Coast or is the team just not up to scratch? Not sure what Ranieri will bring to the side after the world cup either but we'll see.

[HTC]

Pizarro is the ultimate DLP/RGA for Panathinaikos budjet type of team.

Dos Santos is great too, had him in last year's FM as captain and leader of my team.

Sampaoli is a great style to try to emulate in FM, although it needs many Vidals as most of Chile players are. Workrate, Teamwork, Aggression plus technical abilities. So nice to watch them and in generall all Latin America teams. Costa Rica (i want to buy Campbel for ML position but i dont have EU places) and Uruguay (i have Coates, love this guy since FM 12. I now have my little Suarez. Vadala) are great too.

Greece is really a team without any style. We are so predictable. Too bad for us that Mitroglou was injuried for a long time. He has no match fitness. On the other hand out team has no football-id. Predictable football. Everything mediocre. Mediocre defence, mediocre-bad attack. No inspiration from the bench at all.

England lucks inspiration too. I though Hodgson would do well as i remember he took Fulham to UEFA final a few years back. An he is the perfect guy to be humble as its the only way England will do the surprise after all those years. But it was a really difficult group. Then, Rooney is not the Suarez type of striker, the player that will lead the fronline, after Sir Alex Left Man U. Gerard was for sure influenced by Liverpool lost Championhip. Terry and Lambard are big losses. England needs Rodgers i think.

[Torskus77]

Hodgson is perfectly fine as England Manager. We have been down all kinds of routes with managers, and it all comes back to a few things.

* We aren't as good as we think we are. - We lack many/any world class players.

* The better than average players we have constantly fail on the big stage.

* We don't have enough English players playing at the top level.

There were cries for England to move on from the "golden era* joke phrase if ever I heard it, but anyway by and large this is what Hodgson did, picked a youthful side which may be half decent in a few years time. The consequence of this being we failed, but I still believe it was the right decision.

Tough group, maybe, but the un-fancied Costa Rica managed to qualify with a game to spare. It's very disappointing, but all said and done, not the end of the world. I think we will do much better in France 2016.