RonnySanchez Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Well i dont think tha AI worries that much but I have been. Ever since the FM14 came out I have played 300 hours of experimental saves and this is the almost final result of the experiments: This is a tactic that i feel has a lot of potential and is something for you out there to keep experimenting with to get the most of it. For the sake of the experiment i edited in for some players that they are accomplished in the AMC position the first version was this: moving the dlp down in the dmc position is primarily to push the side dmc further to the wings, i now see regularly how the side dmc take up the full back position when the fb is caught up out of position and they also double up together with the fb against wingers, when you have three dmcs' you do not need them inside all the time, the other two are more then enough to cover the hole. The first experiment was with Atalanta. I chose them because they were a mid table team that has the needed types of players. Up until mid february i run the original tactic with the dlp in the mc position but as my reputation rose it became harder playing deep and the problem with the lack of cover on the wings began to show up. After the resounding 3:0 defeat against juventus I moved the dlp down and skip the drop deeper instruction as a standard. As you can see from the results list it is noticeable that i had hard time playing against the stronger teams. I did not lose so many of the games but in most of them i was very inferior. So i was thinking a lot how to win a game with a team that was clearly lacking talent in a number of areas. I had Napoli in april and when i looked back and analyzed the previous games against the big teams i noticed that they were still pegging me on the wings and it was very obvious that the AM players were not doing that much defense when we were in an established defensive position. I decided to switch the two AMCs on support, this way i created less chances but I still created enough of them. The amc on support works more in defense and this was the key. I also tried the tactic with Partizan Belgrade to see how it will work when being a massive favorite. I switched to Control and it worked very well. I use a lot of individual instructions The GK: pass to defenders, pass it shorter DCs: pass it shorter Fbs: stay wider, get further forward, cross more often, cross from deep, shoot less often DMC(d): shoot less often DLP(s): more direct passes AMCL: roam from position, run wide with ball, close down less, shoot less often, get further forward AMCR: the same as above but with the instruction to make ”fewer risky passes”, this will encourage this guy to run with ball more often EG: close down less, more direct passes, shoot less often The Atalanta experiment wa played with a DLF/TM in the EG position with some other instructions: get further forward, fewer risky passes, pass it shorter and shoot less often, close down less. This needed changes to the AMCL guy who in the Atalanta experiment had the forward runs on normal and had more direct passes, this variation created different situations, the EG with ”get further forward” and simple passing game meant that he sometimes got in time in the box for a cross . The Partizan game is played with a true EG and it is different, but my feel is that playing with a true EG is better, more effective. here are some seqences from the tactic Typical CCCs: Stendardo intercepts passes to AMCL Maxi makes a pass into space AMCR is free Interception by the DMCR and pass to AMCL AMCL makes one touch pass to the EG EG plays into space for the AMCR AMCR is free DEFENCE: Double up on FBL Double up on Cazorla stats from the Arsenal game: positions: positions and chances when playing against weaker sides: there is room for improvement of the tactic, if you would like to play a more possession game then maybe the fullbacks should be on support, i dont know but feel free to test the tactic with different teams and other instructions. I would like to know how it will work with a big team in a strong league and with a bad team in a strong league. enjoy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flere-imsaho Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Fascinating! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spireheart Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Just starting another save, i shall have a crack at this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocy Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I played similar tactics without strikers. FB....CD...CD...FB ....DLP......DLP.... ............AP........... ...T....SS......T....... Opposition def tends to pulled out of position, through ball From AP sets SS free for 1 on 1 with keeper. Best result, liverpool 7 chelsea 1, suarez all 7 goals Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnySanchez Posted December 18, 2013 Author Share Posted December 18, 2013 Apart from the confusion in the opponents backline it also gives nice attacking patterns. It creates passing triangles and diamonds, it also stretches the opponent immensly because with the fulbacks rushing forward you get five players that can potentially break free and when the opponent defends it leaves space to put the ball between the center back and the full back on both sides @ocy Virtually all chances created are 1 on 1 with the keeper Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOUGHGUY Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Like a monitor lizard I am monitoring this thread, seeing as I play a 4-2-4-0 myself and it is quite interesting. Not perhaps in a particularly peculiar manner, but exactly in that it is a viable and almost ordinary tactic, in a way. This looks even more of an experiment with perhaps much wilder impact so I might give it a try... seeing as I have about half a dozen defensive midfielders. One thing that kept me tinkering and wondering about my 4-6-0 was the 'striker' in a strikerless formation like that. Have you tried something other than an attacking midfielder, i.e. a shadow striker? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnySanchez Posted December 18, 2013 Author Share Posted December 18, 2013 @Toughguy No, I have not tried anything else other then AMCs on the sides, the reason is that i want symmetry and because an AMC works more in defence. "the Striker" in my experiment both in the Atalanta and in the Partizan save is the AMC on the right side. The AMCR stands for most of the goals, by giving individual instructions I make him to behave as a striker but with some added dimensions, like if he cant get away in a break away then he is instructed to run wide and out wide he behaves as a winger. The AMC on the left side is given a more creative responsability and by doing this he ends up assisting more then scoring. What i'm looking for in the player for that position is scoring ability but combined with a number of other crucial attributes like tecnique, pace, dribbling, decisions, anticipation, flair, off the ball, first touch, work rate and composure. I usually put these guys on the inside forward training schedule. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhorns Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Great thread, I've tried your idea but with a little tweak, the 2 AM is SS and the FB is on S duty. The left SS is allow to roam and fewer risky passes, the right SS is set Move into channel. I haven't set PI to other positions yet, but this is how I got in the 1st match: 8 CCCs from 14 Shots. Half of those came from the SS on the left, tactics farmility isn't fluid yet so i'll just keep experimenting Cheer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnySanchez Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 can you post a picture of average positions from this game? I'm curious how high the full back go on the avarage positions chart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskij1 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I'd say this is the approach Spanish clubs have been playing for the last few years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhorns Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 just got a BSOD with my laptop after a some decent result. So this is how the average position look like on the replay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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