Need help setting up 4-1-3-2 with Rotherham

[^Goose^]

In my seemingly neverending quest to understand this game i've decided to start a game as Rotherham which is a big change to the normal Liverpool, Spurs, Schalke type games i normally play.

With Rotherham i've gone for 4-1-3-2 since i have no decent wingers/IF's and 2-3 decent CM/DM's and forwards.

I've been reading through all the guides and such from Cleon, wwfan and rashidi etc. so im trying to think logically about how to setup my team but still feel that i'm mostly guessing.

My main issue with Rotherham so far is that is that we have the slowest defence in the league but the best in air which leads me to believe that i need to play with a deep defensive line with means either a Defensive or Counter strategy. Unfortunately my midfield isn't very creative and their PPM's aren't all that suited to their natural roles.

I'm not going in to too much detail about my CB's because all there really is to know is that they're both really slow and good in the air. My FB's are both poor as well which is a pain since they provide all the width.

Setting up my midfield and attack is far more bothersome. You can refer back to my 1st screenshot to see what i've done with each player.

Arnason (DM)

Noble (MC)

O'Connor (MCL)

Schofield (MCR)

Revell (STCR)

Nardiello (STCL)

As i say, i've tried to set them up as logically as i can but my gut tells me something aint right. Also, aside from playing short passing (to stop us from just hoofing the ball long since we're going to be playing deep) i'm not entirely sure what other Team Instructions to set when playing this formation with a defensive or counter strategy with this squad of players.

Any suggestions would be most grateful.

I'm quite willing to admit that i may have got literally every decision wrong so dont be afraid to be blunt afterall, i've started this save and this thread to try and educate myself.

Whilst i wait for feedback i'll crack on with pre-season and play the first few league games and see how i get on.

Thanks

[Hazza22299]

Great thread and I'm sure you'll get some help although I'm not really the person to ask. You should analyse the pre-season games very carefully to see how certain players perform in each role. You can't rely on your gut instinct. Generally from reading many articles on this forum Cleon mainly likes to watch the game (or at least the start) to see how his team/tactic is faring whereas Rashid1 uses the analysis tab. They probably both use both of them and I would agree with that. For the pre-season I'd watch at least the first 30 minutes. Carefully analysing the passing options each player has during every move you have. Once you get a tactic right and you go on a winning streak you won't need to concentrate much on analysing the game unless it's an important game as it'll take a good side to knock you off your momentum.

Articles I recommend you read if you haven't already:

Cleon:

- 90 minutes what I do

- Ajax Youth Development

Rashid1:

http://fmrashidi.wordpress.com/

- Tactical Systems - Stafford Rangers goes on a trip

- FM13 – Default settings on the tactical creator you should change

- FM13 - Dummy guide to tactics

A lot of his articles are found in Stafford Rangers goes on a trip so read ALL of that.

Wwfan:

- How to Play FM13: A Twelve Step Guide

These, in my opinion are the very best ones but there are loads of other great one's also by Cleon, Rashidi and Wwfan as well as many other authors. Check the resources part at the top.

Hope this helps but I can't give you anything more detailed as I haven't yet got the tactical knowledge of the people above. Good luck!

[^Goose^]

Thanks for links, mate. I'm still working my way through most of them.

Anyway, on to my first competitive game.....

We start the season with an away trip to Championship team Derby in the Capital One Cup so not really expecting to get a result here.

My team lineup ended up like so with a few additions from my OP.

I managed to bring in quality fullbacks in Galan and Lichaj as well as Eggert Johnson to anchor the midfield and allow me to move Arnason to MC.

Derby line up.

I began with a Counter strategy but changed to Defensive as it soon became apparent that my defenders wanted to just hoof the ball clear making it impossible to launch counter attacks.

Shouts i used were Retain Possession, Pass in to Space, Play Narrower, Exploit the middle, Hit Early Crosses.

The result was a 1-0 win to Derby in Extra time which wasn't too bad really. Match Stats below.

As i predicted in my OP my two CB's did an immensive job of dealing with crosses due their airial ability and our deep line, plus the sheer number of crosses we face from Derby's attacking FB's.

The main issues i noticed with my team were (from Comprehensive highlights);

When my FB's had the ball they never seemed to have anyone to pass to and im not entirely sure why.

All my defenders could do was hoof the ball clear due to our deep line and the onslaught of Derby players (see Passess Analysis)

We lacked the pace and cutting edge to launch counter attacks. Partly this was due to Nardiello getting injured and his backup Agard being awful.

Derby's FB's had free reign to bomb forward. I was sure to combat them without dragging my team out of shape.

Passes Analysis.

I know a lot of you can use the anlaysis tool to help making positive changes but any analysis i make will mostly be guess work.

Heat map.

Having made all three substitutions doesn't help get a clear picture here. I'm wondering if my DM is too far forward to allow my CB's to give them the ball?

Thats all i have for now. Any comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Veggeh]

If I were to judge solely on how your team stacks up in the league, I'd actually be tempted to experiment with a Control strategy and adjust the defensive line to play deeper than normal. Your defence may be slow, but your forwards are quick, and your midfield seems to have enough passing, technique and decisions to keep hold of the ball in the center before feeding it into space behind the defence for your pacey strikers to run on to. So long as you can feed the midfield from your deep defensive line (via Arnason in the DM slot, perhaps?), your midfield seems strong enough to patiently carve openings for you to exploit, which is probably done best via Control.

On the defensive? I can't really give too many suggestions on this I'm afraid, as it's not a formation I've commonly used. You may be on the right lines with playing narrower and trying to force the play into the center of the park, where you should be dominant. Though if the flanks are being abused by the AI then I'm probably not the best person to give advice, as I'm not sure what I'd do off the top of my head. I'd react differently dependent on the situation, most likely.

Can't guarentee any of the above will actually work, I'm literally going off the top of my head here. Might try and test it myself at some point, as now I'm curious. Good luck with your save!

[^Goose^]

First League game of the season.

Torguay 0-1 Rotherham.

Positives:

1) We won (from a corner)

2) Erm....

Negatives:

1) Everything

2) Our passing was horrific - ~50% from our CB's

3) We got owned possesion wise

4) We created little - our 2 CCC's were from a corner and from an LOL mistake from their keeper

[lewis999]

Knowing Rotherhams players on this FM (My mate plays with them) I would look to play on control or maybe even attack, they have the best player's in the league in a lot of positions. I wouldn't worry about the higher line as you won't be playing against many strikers with high acceleration and/or pace really. If you are just use the drop deeper shout.

[^Goose^]

League Game 2

Rotherham 1-0 Northampton

Following the advice of Lewis and Veggeh I changed my strategy to control. I also manually adjusted the passing of my two CB's to very short in an attempt to control their love of hoofing the ball as soon as they can.

Della Vallle has been brought in to replace Agard, also rotated a couple of players out due to fitness.

Shouts Used:

Retain Possesion

Pass into Space

Play wider (wanted to see if we create a bit more space)

Exploit Middle

Work Ball into Box

Passes

Shots

The Goal

[video=youtube;QKpqEJgdNJo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKpqEJgdNJo

Positives:

1) Much better team possession

2) Drastically improved pass completing by CB's

3) We occasionally played some neat football

4) Limited opposition to 2 half chances

Negatives:

1) No CCC's

2) 55% pass completion from Pringle (CML) - need to investigate why.

3) Both strikers always seemed to receive ball in relatively deep positions - not sure why.

As always the more feedback the better

Thanks

[lewis999]

You also have to remember that you are at your second game, once your team becomes familiar with both your tactics and each other you will see even better performances.

To Pringle, click on a few of his unsuccessful passes and see what he did, it could be that he didn't have enough options, it could be to do with his PPM's as he avoids his weaker foot and also likes to switch possession to the other flank.

About your strikers being deep, I would change your poacher to an advanced forward as I know that doesn't make sense with the dropping deep part, but he will be very static and if you are using control he will have very little space in which to make his runs so he might be trying to hunt the ball and come deeper whereas if he's an advanced forward, I think it will change his wide play to 'moves into channels' which will also pull defenders away and may in turn give Pringle another option down the line which might increase his passing %.

PS : Congrats on the win

[Veggeh]

Good to see that Control seems to have a promising outlook from that analysis. I can pretty much echo what Lewis said, in that it'll take time for the tactics to really sink in. Personally, I wouldn't necessarily say that strikers receiving the ball deep is a bad thing if they can blast past defenders using sheer pace, or have support from a teammate or two to play around with. Regardless, I do agree that using a striker with "moves into channels" will help open up that defensive line more by dragging defenders out of position. With that, your other striker or your AM can use the space to run in onto a through-ball and start generating some potential CCC's, if not goals.

As for Pringle, check what kind of passes he's trying to make, to who, and where from. It may be he's just getting his passes intercepted, which, like Lewis pointed out, may be improved with the striker changes.

[MichaelBrown]

This may be unhelpful, but have you checked out the PPM's of the poacher?

[^Goose^]

This may be unhelpful, but have you checked out the PPM's of the poacher?

Even before I saw your replied i noticed that my poacher for some inexplicable reason had the 'Comes deep to get the ball' PPM so his loan move was swiftly terminated

Haven't had much playing time since my last post but just had a nice win vs Port Vale.

[video=youtube;9WSWXC-nprE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WSWXC-nprE

On another note, how you would try and exploit the opposition when you see their DC's so close together like this?

[Äktsjon Männ]

On another note, how you would try and exploit the opposition when you see their DC's so close together like this?

Were they actually playing like that though? It usually shows like this on the analysis page if they switch their positions around at some point.