Jump to content
Sports Interactive Community

The 2-6-2-Rule. An Approach To Creating Tactics In FM 08.

Guest

By Guest,
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 328
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

Thank you for the feedback, JoeThorogood.

I’m sorry, but I am not that firm with where to put Derby in the league. Would you say, finishing 5th is a good result?

As I see, at home you did even beat the big four and did not concede that much goals. That is not bad at all. But could you give some more details about the away games? What were the biggest problems? Did they get you through the middle or over the wings? Did you loose because of a weak defense or because the strikers didn’t score? Did you have enough shots on goal? Thanks again! icon14.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by sitruc03:

The good results are continuing, and I am playing some amazing attacking football, thanks to my TM's 16 passing rating. The only thing I noticed is a little inconsistency at the end of the match, when the AI goes to that 4-2-4 formation. I tried both the Away and Counter tactics against this, but still gave up a lot of shots (luckily didn't lose any points). The last few matches I've used the Counter tactic, but set FBs to 'rarely' on forward runs and run with ball, and that has patched it up nicely, allowing good defense at the back but keeping the forward players on an attacking mindset to steal some late goals and add to my goal difference.

Hi sitruc03.

Thanks for the update. Sounds good. I know the problem with the 4-2-4, also happened to me. And I used the counter tactic with the same tweaks you did. On top, I used the following:

- all midfielders on cross from deep

- everyone except the strikers on play through balls often

- unticked target man box

- played "run onto ball"

- team mentality to normal

- team closing-down to 1st notch of always

- ticked counter attack

In 70% of the games I scored a late goal with that... icon_biggrin.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by heathxxx:

I would say 5th with Derby County in your 1st season is a very good result. icon14.gif

Originally posted by jsw123:

Derby finishing 5th is phenomenal dude!

lol. Well then, perfect! Good luc for the 2nd season... icon_wink.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Mat_K:

I'll experiment and let you know how it goes.

I have to confess I did drop the AMC into the MC position with a forward arrow to AMC, simply because I signed a young Spanish MC for close to £10M at the start of the previous season and have great expectations of him.

The theory has been working well, and has even made a couple of stunning comebacks, the highlight was a recovery from 3-0 down at Arsenal to grab a draw. I have had a couple of blips, one 6-1 defeat against Sunderland, but that looked like it was just "one of those games". The other was a heavy beating by Villareal. I suspect both were down to mis-tweaking of the mentality/D-line.

Good to hear that, Mat_K. Dropping the AMC to MC should work well defensively, as the hole in the center gets much smaller... If he still can support the attack, the better. Keep it up. icon14.gif

Btw, playing vs. Villareal imho is a pain in the neck... Did they play 4-2-2-2? Terrible...!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Karus:

First I'd like to say what a post. I've lately been struggling to play the FM series as playing the game didn't feel so much like being a football manager, rather like I was trying to figure out how to cheat or coax the players and game engine into doing what I wanted but after reading your thread its given me a very refreshing view of FM 2008. Playing the game actually feels like it has some relation to real life tactics and has increased my enjoyment of the game a lot. Thanks alot from saving me from trading in FM 2008 in some stupid rage. icon14.gif

Thanks Karus. Glad that I helped you return to the path of virtue... icon_wink.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
JoeThorogood

JoeThorogood

Posted
Posted

Well Defending was pretty awful, at home i did quite well but i really struggled away from home. I leaked goals from the wings and through balls. However I can't give you much feedback on the reasons because quite frankly Derby's defence was awful, they are very slow, (perhaps a deeper line might work?) and passing, concentration and tackling aren't great so i would also find that I gave the ball away, caught with my full backs too far up and be open, as an example i just played man utd in my second season and they had 32 shots. final result 0-0 but i think thats mainly to luck. If I had a better defence I would be able to give you more feedback, all I can say is that the tactic doesn't work well defensively when the defence are rubbish. Attacking brought the best out my team with Miller scoring 22, Johnson about 20, Earnshaw 6, Barnes 11, and jones 5.

Link to post
Share on other sites
inkognieto

inkognieto

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by JoeThorogood:

Well Defending was pretty awful, at home i did quite well but i really struggled away from home. I leaked goals from the wings and through balls. However I can't give you much feedback on the reasons because quite frankly Derby's defence was awful, they are very slow, (perhaps a deeper line might work?) and passing, concentration and tackling aren't great so i would also find that I gave the ball away, caught with my full backs too far up and be open, as an example i just played man utd in my second season and they had 32 shots. final result 0-0 but i think thats mainly to luck. If I had a better defence I would be able to give you more feedback, all I can say is that the tactic doesn't work well defensively when the defence are rubbish. Attacking brought the best out my team with Miller scoring 22, Johnson about 20, Earnshaw 6, Barnes 11, and jones 5.

I have the same problem in away games. At home I win my matches pretty easy. But away from home i get killed. Any suggestions zagallo? I'm Blackburn in the second season.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

@ JoeThorogood

Well, that is a difficult one. If the quality of the defense is really low, it will be difficult to find a tactic that compensates that... Especially vs. a top-side like ManU. icon_wink.gif But also see below.

@ inkognieto

It's tough for me to answer that, as I don't know the Blackburn team well and don't know your style of play.

But from the experiences I made when testing, I can give you some ideas, that have helped me at times:

- try to reduce the mentality of the DCs one notch (-> 2)

- use man-marking and tight marking for the FBs, but reduce tackling to normal

- up the closing-down for FBs to 10 or 11

- reduce creative freedom, fwdr and rwb for DMC

- up closing down for AMC a little

- reduce team creative freedom to lower normal

- reduce width, if needed down to narrow

- buy a better DMC (sorry)

The framework itself seems to be much more suitable to an attacking style of play than to a defensive one. So even if you are not a top team and playing an away game, don't become too defensively-minded. The effect seems to be close to the one, when using a very deep def line - you draw the opposition on you and simply get overrun.

Example: While testing I had to play Liverpool at Anfield. I played the saved game for about 12 times to see what set-up works best as a mediocre German team. When playing defensively or trying to counter I never succeeded. But when I got onto the pitch with a moderate attacking set-up I did win 2-1. Unbelievable in real life. But it seemed like Liverpool (the AI) was more than surprised that I was not willing to accept the pre-match odds and tried to simply get the 0-0 ove the time.

Anyway, hope the ideas help you a little. icon_smile.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
SamD1990

SamD1990

Posted
Posted

I'm using this with Liverpool at the moment and so far have had two draws, 1-1 away at Middlesbrough and 0-0 at home to Sunderland.

In both games I have had chances and the goal I conceded was from an individual error so defensively it works, I was just wondering what adjustments I could make to my strikers (Torres and Crouch) to perhaps create more of a goal threat?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by SamD1990:

I'm using this with Liverpool at the moment and so far have had two draws, 1-1 away at Middlesbrough and 0-0 at home to Sunderland.

In both games I have had chances and the goal I conceded was from an individual error so defensively it works, I was just wondering what adjustments I could make to my strikers (Torres and Crouch) to perhaps create more of a goal threat?

Hi SamD1990.

Guess, the team has to get used to it for 1 or 2 more games. Anyway, here are some ideas for improving the attack:

- set TM (Crouch) to cross from deep

- reduce his creative freedom

- up team mentality one notch

- set Torres to RwB often and short passing

- experiment with his creative freedom lower? higher?

- tweak the wingers creative freedom

- set wingers to RwB mixed and through balls often if you haven't

- are you playing direct (Liverpool) style or lower mixed passing? The latter is preferred.

Hope that some of those help you.

Can I also ask what Opposition Instructions you usual set

The opposition instructions I use are pretty common:

Opposing wingers get closed down often and show onto weaker foot. If they are named as danger men, tight marking.

I use tight marking on the striker(s). If I play against a really good, fast and creative one also close down often.

The AMC or creative MC gets closed down often, same for DMC if danger man.

If one of the fullbacks is identified as danger man or I play vs. a backline of 5, I close down the fullbacks. At timest I found this to be very effective, when an opponent mostly builds up play from the back. Tried this against Daniel Alves once - kept him locked in his half.

Link to post
Share on other sites
yugular

yugular

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by SamD1990:

I was just wondering what adjustments I could make to my strikers (Torres and Crouch) to perhaps create more of a goal threat?

I am also using Liverpool atm. Torres is always threat no matter the instructions. But Crouch is another case. I found out that Kuyt suits better for target man, but I also created a tactic that is counter tactic where ball is always tried to deliver into Crouch's head asap. This seems to work in away games and Crouch scores goals and delivers balls to Torres and AMC. I also use this tactic sometimes for the last 10-15mins when trying to hold on the lead.

Hope this helps icon_smile.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
Psychoward Outpatient

Psychoward Outpatient

Posted
Posted

Currently trying out this tactic with Manchester City and it doesn't do the job for me. I'm about halfway into the season and I can't seem to keep the opposition from scoring goals a plenty. Currently I'm holding the 13th position in the league with 4 wins, 4 draws, 6 losses and 17 goals scored with 25 against. I've tried messing with CF and DL but nothing seems to work. Don't know whether or not it's because my defense is too slow or if it's me being too daft to do anything about it... It's frustrating to say the least

Link to post
Share on other sites
yugular

yugular

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Psychoward Outpatient:

Currently trying out this tactic with Manchester City and it doesn't do the job for me. I'm about halfway into the season and I can't seem to keep the opposition from scoring goals a plenty. Currently I'm holding the 13th position in the league with 4 wins, 4 draws, 6 losses and 17 goals scored with 25 against. I've tried messing with CF and DL but nothing seems to work. Don't know whether or not it's because my defense is too slow or if it's me being too daft to do anything about it... It's frustrating to say the least

Have you used the downloaded tactics? They need little tweaking since every team is unique.

Try to reckognice what is causing the poor form for your team?

Zagallo has done amazing job explaining possible tweaks in this thread so I suggest you read the whole thread carefully.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Psychoward Outpatient

Psychoward Outpatient

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by yugular:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Psychoward Outpatient:

Currently trying out this tactic with Manchester City and it doesn't do the job for me. I'm about halfway into the season and I can't seem to keep the opposition from scoring goals a plenty. Currently I'm holding the 13th position in the league with 4 wins, 4 draws, 6 losses and 17 goals scored with 25 against. I've tried messing with CF and DL but nothing seems to work. Don't know whether or not it's because my defense is too slow or if it's me being too daft to do anything about it... It's frustrating to say the least

Have you used the downloaded tactics? They need little tweaking since every team is unique.

Try to reckognice what is causing the poor form for your team?

Zagallo has done amazing job explaining possible tweaks in this thread so I suggest you read the whole thread carefully. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah I used the downloaded tactic and have done as much tweaking as possible, but maybe I should just start the whole thing over from scratch (although things have actually started improving after I made my first post).

I think some of the problems lies with my leftback and defensive midfielder, so I will try signing some decent players when the transfer window opens up once more...

I'll return with a new post once the season is finished icon_wink.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
Psychoward Outpatient

Psychoward Outpatient

Posted
Posted

mancityca4.jpg

So this is how it all went down in my first season with this tactic. After my first post I got hold of a new and faster left back along with a defensive midfielder with a bit more quality than my current one. I also decided to start the tactic over from scratch and build it up from the ground instead of using the downloaded tactic (which I tweaked a lot though).

Things were going pretty good until the end of the season where I ran into a lot of super goalies while my own keeper made sure to dip his gloves in butter before each match. My team performed slightly better at home than away, but in the league table I was sitting at number 7 in both home and away record.

Next season I'll look into getting some better wingers and will be trying to sort out the whole super goalie thing that went down in the end of the season.

Link to post
Share on other sites
SamD1990

SamD1990

Posted
Posted

Things seem to be working much better now. Probably just me being impatient and not giving the team enough time to adapt to the new system. I was using low mixed passing BTW before just needed more time to get things working.

Anyway we've won 4 of the last 5, the other a 2-2 draw at Arsenal having led 2-0. Saying that before that I had to try hard not to smash up my keyboard following only just scraping a point at home to Derby!

I've signed Aguero so Torres is now playing as the TM and seems to be playing much better (scored in his last 3 games) and Aguero is playing well in the system too, Matias Fernandez is flourishing in AM scoring goals and setting them up too.

I also used heathxxx idea of setting most of the team's CF to 0 and just having 2 or 3 players with high CF and that has also helped out too. Cheers!

Link to post
Share on other sites
yugular

yugular

Posted
Posted

Hi zagallo

One last feedback:

First full season with this approach. I play Liverpool. I built 5 tactics. Attack, Counter, Defend (didnt use this), Crouch (counter tactic where ball played fast towards Crouch's big head) and Last5mins (to hang on 1 goal lead).

I managed to get second and team played according to gameplan (which didn't ever happen before I read this thread) and managed to create various type of scoring chances for Torres, Kuyt and Crouch, Torres alone scored 32 times in the league.

I gotta admit once again that your approach to the game is working! (It just needs some time to tweak the tactics + PATIENCE)

yugular

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

@SamD1990

Good to hear that. YOur are right, heathxxx idea compliment the set-up really well. icon14.gif

@yugular

Thanks a lot, yugular. Good to hear that. And well, I know this thing with patience... Also took me a while. icon_wink.gif

@Psychoward Outpatient

Hi there. Thanks for your results. And no, sorry. With my team I use to have possession between 50% and 57% when using the attacking or away tactic. When playing counters it reduces, but that is normal for counter tactics.

And please don't forget: Although the team defense is possession based, the framework itself must not be. So the goal is not to always have high possession stats. The idea is to build up the play from behind without direct or long balls, but with passes to the sides. Then, when there is any opportunity, the team can try some quick moves or passes to get into an attacking position.

This is something that is quite difficult to set-up with the sliders in the game (unless - assumption - you play really short passing). Because it means the different parts of the team use different tempo. Slow at the back, quick upfront.

So unless you have a problem with too much conceding or not enough chances, possession should not be an issue.

If you want to rise possession though, you need medium to lower tempo and medium time-wasting plus normal mentality, a medium def line and width and less through balls. That should work. Hope that helps you. icon14.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

Oh, and I forgot something. In case you are in the second season or later, re-ranking could also be a reason for lower possession. When most opponents play defensively against you and pass the ball around their defense and midfield lines, they will naturally have higher possession than you. As closing-down is on medium, you midfield will not attack them aggressively to gain the ball. That might also be possible. In this case it might be helpful to up closing down in midfield.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Dako81

Dako81

Posted
Posted

Hello Zagallo

Great post mate, really well thought

Right now I have employed your approach and it very good.

Currently I am managing Palermo, Man City in 3rd seasons and Barca in first one in one game.

Palermo is 3rd; Man City is 1st and Barca unbeaten so far. The tactic is great.

One question: what are your thoughts about Counterattack?

Does it influences the tactic position of players and the way they play or it is just an addition??

Greats

Dako

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

Hi and thanks Dako81.

Glad it works out for you. icon14.gif

As far I could see, there is no real difference in the players position compared to the other set-ups.

Apart from the individual instructions who let the defenders stay a little deeper when countering.

Might come from players mentality being all the same and the low creative freedom.

But the way they play looks a little different for me. Example: I really like the move when my FBs try through balls from pretty deep along the sideline for the fast striker running onto it when countering. I tried to set up the instructions according to that for counters, and it seems to work. I tried the same with the other set-ups - and it rarely happened. So to me it seems like the team plays somehow deeper with the strikers staying more upfront (on the edge of offside) to receive the balls quickly and all of them using less stations to get in front of the goal.

But also I have found, that the 2-6-2 framework itself seems to be made for counters. As it enforces this style of play very much. That's why my team plays best with the counter tactic.

What are your observations about that?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Psychoward Outpatient

Psychoward Outpatient

Posted
Posted

Things are going really good in my new season with Manchester City and I'm currently 2nd in the league. Odd things have been happening with my defense for the last 8 matches though. For some odd reason my central defenders keep getting pulled out of position so they're fumbling about in places of the pitch where they're not supposed to be.

I've tried lowering their CD and raising my defensive midfielders CD (which I had lowered from your original idea before the season) to make sure that he got to whoever had the ball first. It doesn't seem to work though as shots and irritating goals are flying in all over the place... Any idea for a possible solution?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

Good to hear that. But strange thing about the DCs. Usually they should stick to their position and won't get drawn out. Especially when you turn down CD even more. Do you have tight marking ticked for them? If so, they should not. Or may it be the opposition instruction in the game? If you use close-down often and tight marking all the time for the opponents strikers and/or AMCs, the same might happen.

What might help is to change man-marking for the DMC back to zonal and us tight-marking. Depends on the DMCs qualities. Or try is to lower the DCs mentality by one notch. But usually mentality has not much to do with reactions to the opponents moves... icon_confused.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
Psychoward Outpatient

Psychoward Outpatient

Posted
Posted

Don't have tight marking on, and my season is slowly going down the drain at the moment, although I'm still in 2nd place. I have absolutely no idea why the whole thing is suddenly falling apart, it doesn't make any sense, but I guess it's just FM08 being a bastard to me once again... Damn you!

Link to post
Share on other sites
fuzbalino

fuzbalino

Posted
Posted

I started this tactics yesterday and after 7-8 matches I was dominating 1st in french league with average side..but then it was a disaster...13 matches without win..no matter what I tried. Even if I scored first I lost 3-1...I got goals in in first couple of minutes and all that. Hardly saved my season being 12th at the end.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

Sorry to hear that. Did you try some of the tweaking ideas? Can you upload a screenie of your formation and/or settings? I don't have any explanation for that right now and it didn't happen to me yet.

Link to post
Share on other sites
fuzbalino

fuzbalino

Posted
Posted

Zagga...

I just started 2nd season and play at home first match vs poor french prem club in first half alone they had like 10 shots on goal and I had 1...on attacking tactics...I lost 3-1 at the end.

I have much better players and all that. It was great first season but only first 8-10 matches since than its awful. First 10 matches nobody could break my defence but since then every1 scores easily when playing me.

I tried counter..and away..but my defence just leaking..and I have solid def with around 130CA/160PA

Link to post
Share on other sites
coldkohmew

coldkohmew

Posted
Posted

It works for my mexico squad winning the gold cup with at least 2 goals scored.(except against USA where we come from a goal behind to win 4-3 on penaties)

I altered it in to 2CB,1DMC,2MC,2MRL,1AMC,2ST,though mexico does not have many DMs.

MRL need to cross alot and attacking mentality makes them agressive...

MOM usually goes to the MLRs or AMC and i score plently through corners ,thanks for the idea and i would try your version with holland soon...

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by fuzbalino:

Zagga...

I just started 2nd season and play at home first match vs poor french prem club in first half alone they had like 10 shots on goal and I had 1...on attacking tactics...I lost 3-1 at the end.

I have much better players and all that. It was great first season but only first 8-10 matches since than its awful. First 10 matches nobody could break my defence but since then every1 scores easily when playing me.

I tried counter..and away..but my defence just leaking..and I have solid def with around 130CA/160PA

Hi fuzbalino.

Sorry about that. But I still don't have an explanation for it. With my team I had little setback at the beginning of the second season - but for me that looked like a typical 2nd season slump from re-ranking together with new players trying to gel with the team and tactic. For the re-ranking I then played a little more offensive via team settings. For team gelling I tried to have patience. icon_rolleyes.gif

I also tweaked my training to get some faster results there. But with all 3 teams I tested this framework with, I never got that bad results. Maybe you woulf have some more success, if you use the opposition instructions with more tight marking on the strikers and wingers? Maybe you should adapt the 2-6-2 into a 3-5-2 with a DMC/MCd on same mentality as the DCs? But these are about the only ideas I have at the moment...

Link to post
Share on other sites
fuzbalino

fuzbalino

Posted
Posted

Zagga

I started new season this with average/solid Lille now and did this tweaks:

Attacking tac: Removed offside, for CD's decreased CF to 2, MR and RB crosses to target man..LB also..LM mixed. On team tactics I gave right side free kicks to best header and right corner on mixed.

Same for away tactics. I dont play counter.

I am leading the league for 6 months now and looks sexy football finally icon_smile.gif Team is balanced and always dangerous.

I was so close to finishing my FM career so big Thank you Zagallo and I hope this 4 pages on valuable info will help many others to find some pleasure out of fm08.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...