The Tactics of Attacking : Creating Space

[ProZone]

Keeping possession on the flanks is just one aspect of tiring the Chelsea players out. The key principle is to make them move around and battle more than they would like to, for long periods of the game. The strength of Chelsea through the middle is actually counter-productive to the "stamina game" where they are weak because it naturally encourages you to defend through the middle, encouraging their defense forward and fullbacks to overlap. Which in turn leaves you with space to attack down the flanks and in behind Chelsea. So all you are really doing is combining the usual centrally solid, counter-attacking system with a bit of possession play in wide areas.

In terms not only of space but also in terms of getting Chelsea to chase the ball, you want to have a threat upfront that is running behind the defence and chasing the ball into channels. This is not only a good way to counter-attack Chelsea anyway, but is a good way to make Chelsea shuttle back and forth up and down the field, and it is also a good way to receive the ball in the wide channels and construct attacks from wide areas like you might do against Madrid, but also to keep the ball.

The usual counter-attacking system against a team with numbers through the middle is to lob balls down the flanks to a striker that is running the channels, then get him to deliver a good ball to the midfield runners. Maybe a Winger/Inside Forward is running into the box, or maybe you use your wingers to man-mark the opponents wingers and use a CM to make runs into the box. Either way the opponents defence is going to be chasing the ball wide and then facing a runner from deep. It's the basic premise of a good counter-attack.

The start of all good counter-attacks is a good ball over the top from deep. You win the ball deep, play it to your "playmaker" then he lobs a peach over the top to a runner. Against a narrow team, this guy can also lob balls from flank to flank. He is your "playmaker" so he should be decent on the ball anyway, so depending on whether you choose "get the ball forward" or "retain possession" you should be able to control whether he is doing flank-to-flank stuff or over-the-top stuff.

In short if I were to design a formation against Chelsea, assuming a level of quality of players that is not light years behind Chelsea, I would be looking to do the following things:

1. Pack the midfield, very much leaning towards three midfielders. Two of these midfielders would be very physical, high stamina players playing relatively deep but getting in amongst the Chelsea players when they move close to the D. The third CM would be a DLP, tasked with "for the love of god" not leaving his position to hunt the ball, because Chelsea will destroy you through the middle if you give them space. 2 CB's and a DM/DLP sitting in a big triangle that moves as a unit forwards or backward and never concedes an inch of space through the middle. The instant your DLP or DM leaves his position ahead of the centrebacks, Lampard and Ballack are going to link-up and play a throughball to whoever Chelsea have upfront.

Someone like Scholes or Carrick is prime for this role. Don't get them move, get them to sit right infront of the two Centrebacks and ping balls around the pitch.

Then you can use your two CM's to hunt and destroy the ball. If you set up this "triangle" properly (and I keep going on about the central defensive triangle because it is utterly vital to understand in defensive football) then you can involve your Fullbacks in linking up with your CM's to hunt the ball.

2. Play two wingers/inside forwards. If these guys are man-marking the Chelsea fullbacks and have pace and skill then not only are your own fullbacks free to defend other areas, like the centre of the pitch, but your two widemen are always in the prime position to take on the fullback and beat him quickly. The very fact that your widemen mark the Chelsea fullbacks means that your widemen are always in the prime position to exploit any failure or weakness or error by the Chelsea fullback. If your fullback wins the ball it is 2v1 in a deep area giving you the ball and you can then drive towards the Chelsea centrebacks from deep. If you did not man-mark the fullback then you winger might be man-marked 50 yards up the pitch by John Terry. Good luck winning that pass.

It also gives you constant ability to outnumber the Chelsea wide players no matter where they are. Your widemen follow them deep and double mark them with your fullbacks to prevent crosses to the Chelsea central behemoths. You win the ball and it's 2v1 down the flank in close quarters. You could keep the ball there all day, or play it to your DLP and get him to whip it to the other flank.

If the Chelsea fullbacks drop back into their defensive areas, it is just a usual system with your Wingers playing high and wide. You can push your fullbacks forward while your CM's stay deep and make overlaps or link-up play down the wings.

3. Always play a man over-the-top. Chelsea are a team that loves it when you give them the space to move their defence into your own half. They will happily sit there and utterly dominate you Chelsea style inside your own half unless you have a really potent ball over the top. There is very little more punishing in football than a Chelsea defense sitting on the half-way line. Even if their forwards are horrific and having nightmares, every ball you clear will be on the edge of your own box in no more than ten seconds time.

So a DLP is you main man. A good DLP that can switch play from flank to flank or lob balls over the top is key. Keep your CM's narrow and battle-axe like, with your CM's hunting the ball down once it gets into your half. Use your widemen to follow the Chelsea fullbacks, and use your CM's + Fullbacks to press the ball in midfield. Out number them wide and let them have a DLP of their own in acres of space because you are not coming forward as a team. Your defensive triangle forces their attacks wide. You double up down the flanks and use Physical CM's to harrass and chase, and then you lob balls over the top or play possession football down the flanks and from flank-to-flank to tire them out.

If your "core" is particularly solid, you can then allow your battle-axe, stamina endowed CM's as well as your WF's to bomb forward into the box to receive balls from your channel running lone striker. This in particular will cause a huge amount of "back-to-front" motion in the Chelsea midfield.

Basically out-stamina and out-mark them in "mobile/less vital" areas. Out position and pass them in key defensive areas. Out run them through the centre of their defence. And make sure you can out-jump Drogba and Lampard and Ballack inside the box. Chelsea are not an easy team to beat but if you defend a good shape well through the heart of your defence, battle well in midfield, outnumber them down the flanks, and outrun them upfront you can whittle down their stamina and do what you like for the last half hour of the match. The only players of yours that should be doing much running are your 2 CM's and Striker, while most of their team apart from their DLP should be running around like mad.

Bit of a wall of text here, and probably not the best analysis ever. Sorry about that.

SFraser, fantastic amount of information there and thanks for taking the time.

Had a go at putting this into practice and the details were as follows:

Philosophy: Rigid

Strategy: Counter

GK - Foster

DR (Full Back, Automatic) - Neville

DL (Full Back, Automatic) - Evra

DC (Central Defender, Defend) - Brown

DC (Central Defender, Defend) - Evans

DMC (Deep Lying Playmaker, Defend) - Carrick

MC (Ball Winning Midfielder, Support) - Fletcher

MC (Ball Winning Midfielder, Support) - Anderson

AMR (Inside Forward, Attack) - Valencia

AML (Inside Forward, Attack) - Nani

ST (Advanced Forward, Attack) - Rooney

Playmaker set to Carrick

Opposition DMC set to Close Down Never using OI

Carrick set to Zonal marking

Defensive Corners: All outfield players set to Man Mark

These are the players at my disposal. I matched Chelsea's possession 50:50 and we were more or less equal in total shots and shots on target but lost the game 1-0. We didn't really look dangerous after conceding. Some questions then...

Fletcher has the PPM "Arrives in box late" which saw him challenging in the box for balls played in from wide areas. But would you assign different roles to the MCs to make more of this, Box to Box perhaps? And would you specify anything in particular for the crossing instruction (i.e. drill or float)?

The goal came right after half-time from their AMC (Deco) drifting to the left touchline closely followed by my DMC (Carrick) whilst my DR held his position and offered no support. The cross came in and Evans was beaten in the air by Drogba who scored. Exactly what you said to watch out for and I could see it as the move was developing! So, could you give a little more insight on how to prevent the DM-DLP moving out of his position? Reduce his closing down would be the obvious one but I'm wondering if you were alluding to something else.

I didn't use any Touchline Shouts which was a mistake I've spotted since re-reading your post and I'll correct that next time out. Another half-mistake was assigning Valencia an Inside Forward role, he should have been given Winger (Attack). My original thinking was to get the DL (Cole) onto his heavily least favoured right foot but it also puts Valencia onto his heavily least favoured left. A question I'd like to ask you later is how would you go about taking the game to Chelsea and/or the 4-1-2-1-2 formation once you have fallen behind, because, in theory and from experience, opening up against this formation is suicide!

[SFraser]

There are a couple of things to spring to attention almost immediately.

The first one is you are using Philosophy : Rigid with Strategy : Counter and that you observed Carrick following a man into Neville's zone. If you look at the Mentality system of Philosophy : Rigid and Strategy : Counter with those player roles you will see that while your team is sitting deep and looking to spring the counter-attack, there is a distinct Mentality gap between your Centrebacks and your Fullbacks + DM and there is a distinct Mentality gap between your Fullbacks + DM and your CM's.

If you take the Centrebacks as the starting point, they will be slightly deeper than the fullbacks. The Fullbacks are on the same "line" as the Centrebacks but with a slightly higher mentality they will tend to position themselves ahead of the Centrebacks. The DM is on the next "line" and with an identical Mentality to the Fullbacks will tend to keep that precise distinction of positioning. If the DM had a lower Mentality or the Fullbacks had a higher Mentality they would tend to operate on the same "line" for all intents and purposes. However with identical Mentalities and on different "lines" there will be a significant difference in depth of positioning. The DM compared to the Centrebacks is miles away. Instead of a building a "triangle" of 2 CB's + DM with Fullbacks doing the chasing and hunting and pressing, you built a slightly concave back four with a DM sitting quite a distance ahead of it.

The Ball Winning Midfielders are then positioned on the next "Line" with a still higher Mentality. This means the Ball Winners are not in a position to defend the flanks of the isolated DM let alone link up with the fullbacks to patrol the channels.

This is precisely what "Rigid" means. It means Rigid adherance to strict definitions of roles. Fullbacks behind DM's behind CM's behind AM's. I always tend to think of Rigid as meaning "gaps" between players. Fullbacks and Wingers in acres of space in the Fullback and Wing positions. It's not necessarilly accurate depending on the precise roles you give, but it is a good basis to start from whenever you think about "Rigid". It most certainly does not mean a rigid wall of players at the back.

You conspired to create the precise space you want to defend against Chelsea, through Philosophy alone. Carrick didn't chase Deco into Neville's zone, Carrick chased Deco around Carrick's zone. Carrick's zone was isolated both in terms of players operating alongside him in his exact "level" as well as being very isolated from the rest of the team in terms of depth. The CM's were pushed forward, the Defenders pushed back.

If you look at your tactics screen, set it up so you can see every players condition, form, morale etc. while you are looking at your Formation on the right hand side. Click the Formation Instructions panel and set it to Team Instructions, then turn the Player - View panel to Mentality.

Watch what happens to the Mentality of the Fullbacks + DM + CM's if you turn Philosophy to Balanced. Your DM drops right back to the same Mentality as the CB's, the Ball Winners drop right back to about where your DM was, and your Fullbacks charge right forward to a similar mentality to your Ball Winners, far ahead of your DM. Think of what that means in terms of Space and Shape. It means your DM plays deeper, your Fullbacks more advanced and your Ball Winners and Fullbacks are now operating in a Convex line of four ahead of your CBs + DM. The huge gaping maw of space around your isolated DM ahead of your back four is now completely inverted. Your Fullbacks and CM's are now positioned to do what they were supposed to do, defend your back 3 triangle on all sides.

Look also what happens to Valenica, Nani and Rooney. Rooney drops much deeper and if you give him Complete Forward Support he will now Man-Mark either the Chelsea DM or one of the CB's. Nani and Valencia push much higher up and all three are now going to be good targets for balls over the top, or if you choose Defensive Winger roles then good candidates for getting the better of the attacking Fullbacks once they have been pressed hard by your Fullbacks + Ball Winner + Winger.

Now I forget to mention in my last post that pushing high up the pitch is a very good strategy against Chelsea even if your are "defending" against them. Chelsea are an overwhelmingly slow team barring the Second Striker and Ashley Cole. If they do lob passes down your channels, then the rest of the team has to run to catch up. If you encourage them deep onto you near your own box, they don't have to run to catch up. And sitting deep encourages crosses and makes each won header an actual threat on goal instead of a "mere" second ball knockdown or flick on.

I would suggest that your defensive lineup is slightly amiss. Sticking big John O'Shea in defence provides you with a brute in the air, and it allows you to play Brown at RB. Brown will get stuck in, has pace and is good in the air. If you set up your defence along the lines of Brown - Evans - O'Shea - Evra you should have a good spread of jumping across your backline. If you keep your team forward it will encourage Chelsea to lob balls over the top to their runner. This is okay. Their true speed merchants tend to be young and under-developed. Their better speed merchants are by no means Walcott and nowhere near Evra in terms of pace. Let Chelsea do this because you will be pressing them hard up the field and shortening the space infront of your defence allowing your midfield + Fullbacks to hunt the ball far better, while balls over the top will force Chelsea to sprint back and forth as you lob passes over the top in reply.

Even if you are setting up with a 7 man defence and only three genuine attacking threats, pushing high up the pitch against Chelsea is good with this team. You are strong, quick and aggressive and you can turn the game into an absolute meat grinding battle in the middle of the pitch, which will play straight into the hands of Anderson and Fletcher. The Chelsea Centrebacks will not be able to keep up with Rooney over 90 minutes of ball chasing. Chelsea's CMs are solid but the genuinely dangerous ones will not match Anderson and Fletcher. Force Chelsea to work really hard all game, force them to grind for the ball in midfield, force them to chase the ball towards your goal, and then force them to chase it right back to their own goal. Watch out for Terry though, he is a great ball winner if you keep sending the ball to areas he can easilly reach.

And yes getting Fletcher to bomb into the box from deep and late is a great idea, as is getting Anderson to run with it straight at the heart of Chelsea when he is in possession. Of the two, Fletcher is the goalscorer while Anderson is a strange player. Apart from not being able to shoot, tackle, head the ball, hold good positions, make great runs, or time his moves very well he is a brilliant player... He will "boss the midfield" easilly if you set him up correctly.

[ProZone]

Absolutely brilliant once again! I have learnt so much from these last two posts. I will need to have a look at my philosophy settings for all the formations I use now that I can see the effects of mentality in action. Let's stick with this one though for now...

So I've had another very close look at this and have set up as follows. Still not perfect but a vast improvement:

Philosophy: Balanced

Strategy: Counter

GK - Foster

DR (Full Back, Automatic) - Brown

DL (Full Back, Automatic) - Evra

DC (Central Defender, Defend) - Evans

DC (Central Defender, Defend) - O'Shea

DMC (Deep Lying Playmaker, Defend) - Carrick

MC (Box to Box Midfielder, Support) - Fletcher

MC (Ball Winning Midfielder, Support) - Anderson

AMR (Defensive Winger, Attack) - Valencia

AML (Defensive Winger, Attack) - Nani

ST (Complete Forward, Support) - Rooney

Additional:

Playmaker set to Carrick

Opposition DM set to Close Down Never using OI

Defensive Corners: ST set to Close Down Corner, DR set to Mark Far Post, 2 DCs set to Mark Tall Player, everyone else set to Man Mark

Tackling set to More Aggressive

Touchline Shouts at kick-off:

Get Ball Forward

Hassle Opponents

Get Stuck In

Pass Into Space (optional)

Play Narrower (optional)

Touchline Shouts if leading:

Retain Possession

Hassle Opponents

Get Stuck In

Push Higher Up

Take A Breather (optional)

Play Narrower (optional)

The match finished 0-0. Won the possession battle 55-45%, had 3 more total shots than Chelsea but crucially they had ZERO on target which I consider to be a big success.

There were one or two moments where things got a bit disorganised for me defensively and that was to the left-hand side of my DM where there is a larger mentality gap between him and the BWM (Anderson) than to the B2B (Fletcher). Otherwise I'm very happy with the switch to a Balanced mentality system and my understanding of all your previous comments have become clearer as a result.

I am trying to keep things as simple as possible so my control of the midfield battle is managed through shouts alone at this stage. I found that I was looking less dangerous in attack when 'Pushing Higher Up' and I wanted to draw Chelsea out as much as possible to maximise the space for my front 3 to exploit. So I have saved the Push Higher Up shout for when/if I can get a lead in which case it works wonderfully well with the Retain Possession shout and gets a lot of ball to the Full Backs in space.

Clearly though, on this occasion I didn't manage to score despite looking dangerous on several occasions. I like the work the Defensive Wingers do but I think this should be sacrificed a little for the more adventurous options available, at least until a lead is established. I have had joy in the past with an Inside Forward (Attack) - Deep Lying Forward (Attack) - Winger (Attack) set-up accross the front 3 I'll try this next.

Last thing to look at in detail is the left CM role. Anderson is doing a good job there as a BWM but to further sure things up defensively to the left of my DM as mentioned a B2B mentality setting might be better plus the removal of all instructions other than Run With Ball and Try Through Balls. This is however specific to my players and not the 'ideal approach' against the 4-1-2-1-2, I am mindful of this fact in developing a tactic that others may wish to adopt for this situation.

Lastly, and not insignificant by any means, is my teamtalk selection. I have seen many poor, early goal conceding starts when going with my Assistant's option of "For the fans". As I'm playing a rival this may be considered an obvious choice. However, saying "I expect a win" sees a much steadier display and ensures the midfield battle really gets going. I need to understand my players better, but all in all I feel I'm nearly there with this.

EDIT: Just read through (again) the Touchline Shouts details in TT'10 and "Clear Ball To Flanks" has to be tried too!

[SFraser]

I should have explained that when I said "push up" I meant that you can afford to play a more aggressive attacking strategy. The Counter-Attack strategy is a very low mentality strategy and so compressing the space in the pitch with low mentality players is going to produce an advanced backline but cautious approach that will ultimately reduce your opportunities for a counter attack.

With an effective 7 man defence and the other 3 outfield players all playing important man-marking roles on the opponents fullbacks and DM/CB you can be confident that your defense is solid. That the team irrespective of their Mentality Strategy is a very solid and well organised and numerous defensive formation. This means you can afford to take more risks with your strategy or with key players in the team, without disrupting your overall shape or style or premise of defence very much.

As Chelsea are generally lacking numbers down the flanks, and the players that are going to drift wide are not genuine wide players other than the Fullbacks, it is your own Fullback positions that you should be looking at for options to create attacking opportunities. Pacey Fullbacks are a great equaliser when taking risks, and you have two of them. What you can do to Chelsea with your Fullbacks in attack is two-fold. First you can attempt to outnumber the Chelsea Fullbacks, and second you can look to encourage Chelsea midfielders to move into wide areas in defence leaving space through the middle.

The problem with you current attacking setup is that you only really attacking Chelsea where they are strong and you are weak, which is with two wide players attacking two fullbacks fairly constantly and aggressively, with their main lines of supply coming from wide areas into the box to either your lone striker or a late runner. You should look to supplement your Wingplay with your Fullbacks, bring more options to your flank play, and ideally open up opportunities to get your midfield playmakers more involved in constructing attacks.

Now here comes a bit of "theorycrafting" in terms of attack.

So far you have constructed a very symmetrical defence and a very solid one by the sounds of it. Symmetry is always the easiest to employ but not necessarilly the most effective. You do not have a completely symmetrical squad, and your starting defense, midfield and wingers are not symmetrical by any means. Neither are Chelsea a purely symmetrical side. If you are still early on in the game, Chelsea should have a fairly obvious bias towards their left in terms of attacking quality if not attacking instructions, while your Right Back is very weak going forward.

Chelsea's formation also leaves a "pocket" of space infront of the Fullback that a good Fullback of the opponent may be able to exploit. Again you only really have Evra that can exploit this space effectively. You are also aware that Anderson is best when deep despite his skills, he does lack the ability to be trully decisive upfront.

Look at the opportunities the Chelsea defence leaves you if, in theory, Wayne Rooney was to play his football between the two Centrebacks. If Rooney plays between the Centrebacks, the Centreback closest to your Attacking Fullback is removed from the game because he cannot advance without leaving any easy throughball to Rooney on the inside channel of the other Centreback. To prevent the Fullback coming across to mark Rooney, you can make the opposite winger make aggressive attacking runs. That will pin three of the back four facing the Advancing Fullback. So Rooney and Valencia make attacking runs behind Cole and between the two Centrebacks.

This leaves the Fullback you are attacking, + a DM, + a CM, and potentially + an AMC to defend this pocket of space. This is where you DLP is very useful as a deep out-ball, and it is where you Box-to-Box is VERY useful making attacking runs from the other side of the pitch towards the goal. The DM or the opposite CM is going to have to track him as he launches himself towards the Centrebacks.

This leaves you with Evra + Your Near-Side Winger + Anderson to take on a CM, a Fullback and a DM if the opponent is extremely good with his midfield marking. The Chelsea DM/CM is going to have to come across to hassle Evra because if the Fullback moves forward you have a simple ball into a completely free Left Winger to attack the entirely pinned back four.

Whichever CM/DM moves to attack Evra will leave space for a ball infield to Anderson or Carrick who can then rip open the acres of space you have created down the right flank and through the middle with direct balls straight into a multitude of runners. And at all times you have Wes Brown spare at the back.

So my advice to you is to play Ryan Giggs instead of Nani. Get Anderson into a slightly deeper but more Creative Role perhaps DLP Support or Advanced Playmaker Support. Get Valencia and Fletcher and Rooney to make attacking runs from the right/centre, and construct controlled build up play down your Left Flank using Evra, Rooney, Carrick and Anderson. The ocean of space you leave down your right flank incase of a counter-attack will be "capped" by Brown.

All you need to do to achieve this is to tweak a few left-hand side roles. Perhaps Advanced Playmaker for Giggs, Wingback Automatic for Evra, DLP/AdvP for Anderson.

Keep in mind that this should do absolutely nothing to your current defence setup, beyond moving your utter speed merchant Fullback a bit further forward while your Left Winger plays a deeper game. It will keep the idea of the "ball over the top" for the right hand side of the pitch, but down the left hand side of the pitch you employ a completely different approach that exploits in detail the very fact you are making direct runs and passes over the top down the right. And remember, if you are feeling adventurous or in need of a goal, you can still advance Brown forward into a more supporting or attacking role down the Right Flank. To start with ideally he provides solid cover of the right flank, but can be encouraged forward if needed.

So have a bash at that, see how that approach works out for you.

EDIT: And if you find that Carrick is not being put under immense defensive pressure due to your defensive setup, do not be afraid to employ Paul Scholes as your DLP. He is superior in every respect to Carrick as a playmaker, almost purely because of his higher Flair. You can also play Carrick instead of Anderson if you employ a "Creative Left" approach. There are infact many options, including using Berbatov, that can be tweaked out of this basic assymetric premise.

[charlstonbigspuds]

I'd like to say thank you to prozone and especially SFraser for the advice on how to tactically defeat Chelsea.

I'm in the year 2020 in my 5th season with Crystal Palace and 3rd season in Prem,ive been studying this thread over the last few days,it has helped me with leading Palace to 4th in the league at time of writing this and to a 1st league cup final where i was to play the all conquering Chelsea.

On to Chelsea,Ancelotti is still in charge and still using his trusted 4-1-2-1-2 formation none of the current team are still there but they are still incredibly strong and have been replaced with the like of M.Sakho,Zapata,Fabregas,Moussa Sissoko and Gourcuff along with regens similar to type a drogba like CF and a double of Lampard(english too).

As if this wasnt hard enough my squad was injury ravaged i have a youngest squad in the league and i was now down to my 3rd choice left back,without my main CB plus his back up,main striker was also out as was my recent midfield signing Jonjo Shelvey.Due to the defensive problems i held little hope as you can imagine...

Anyway I followed what has been said in recent posts and i set up my team the same in a 4-1-2-2-2,in a quiet 1st half there was little action although i was dominating possesion and restricted Chelsea to very little.The end of 1st half and its 0-0 im over the moon and would settle for penalties right now.

Beginning of 2nd half the ball drops to one of my ball winners after a mix up from a indirect free kick happy days(gf thinks im crazy celebrating a 'computer game' as she puts it).Chelsea inevitably begin to push on but as much i want to drop a little deeper keep my defence pushed up and we look pretty comfortable so leave everything as it is,give instruction to retain possession and we see out the 90mins pretty comfortable(They had 10 shots to my 8,both had 2 on target and no CCC for either team).

Anyway i just thought id let you know how the tactic worked for a team such as my Crystal Palace as i understand you both manage Man U,and to say a big thanks on giving me big helping hand to secure Palaces 1st league cup win!

Thanks again:thup:

[ProZone]

@charlstonbigspuds

Very glad you've found the discussion to be useful and more importantly successful. It has become very Man Utd vs. Chelsea orientated and the approach we've developed is pretty specific to those two sets of players. Nonetheless, there are plenty of ideas for taking on the 4-1-2-1-2 formation in general terms and hopefully this can assist many more people.

[jameswibbs]

i've just started what will be my last save with Fulham iam not going to buy anyone i will wait till the season is over, could you lads give me a an outline off a solid 4-4-2 because i am not very good with all this tactic stuff.

[ProZone]

@SFraser

I feel I've really got the measure of the 4-1-2-1-2 now.

Let me specify how I've been testing these ideas. I have a save which I continuously re-load right before the Community Shield match at the beginning of Season 1. At this point I am disadvantaged heavily I feel which makes for an interesting test. Firstly my squad to a man have 5-6% poorer pre-match condition compared to Chelsea meaning that my squad is usually the one fatigued heavily at the end. I am without my two best DCs, Ferdinand and Vidic, and Giggs is also unavailable through injury. I have no new squad additions. Plus my squad dislike me as their new manager for good measure! I must have played this match ~25 times over now so I'm confident that my observations are reasonably sound.

The balanced philosophy set-up really made a difference to my defence. I still concede goals occasionally mind but these are now almost entirely to moments of individual brilliance rather than my defence being carved to pieces with slick passing. I have a defensive corner set-up also which has been 100% effective so far in preventing Chelsea goals from corners (detailed in my post #103).

The attack is more difficult though. Scoring goals against Chelsea is difficult due to the quality of their defenders and the simple fact they outnumber my attackers, no real surprises there. However, the assymetric approach down the left produced a noticeable improvement to my attacking potency and really helped overload the DR regardless of the fact that I did not have an ideal player for the AML Adv. PM role. I say noticeable because over the course of three matches I won 2 penalties which I personally consider to be a definitive sign that a player is struggling and having to take action in desperation, leading to mistakes.

In terms of strategy, taking the game to Chelsea is the only way I have had any joy getting goals. That is using the Attack strategy combined with the 'Retain Possession' touchline shout if I'm losing the possession battle or 'Get Ball Forward' otherwise. Sometimes I will also shout 'Play Narrower' to tighten up in the middle and create more space for my wide players. (Note: despite the TT'10 Touchline Instructions guide (pg. 53) saying that 'Play Narrower' decreases width and focuses passing though the centre I have found the latter to be untrue when looking at the Team Settings. So I'm happy to use it as it doesn't appear to re-direct play away from my attacking flanks)

So, if I can establish a lead then Chelsea really make a go of things. I have had reasonable further success by taking the brave option of sticking with the Attack strategy but more often than not I have gone more conservative with the Counter strategy combined with 'Push Higher Up', 'Get Stuck In', 'Clear Ball To Flanks' and optionally 'Play Narrower' and 'Take A Breather'. Almost certainly this will not get me further goals but I can contain Chelsea's barrage for prolonged periods of time. If I'm particularly successful at this then Chelsea are forced to change their formation to something more in the 4-4-2 mould which I can react to accordingly and counter with greater ease.

I'm going to reduce all this discussion now and post it in a thread I started on coping with the 4-1-2-1-2 and try to keep it more general for all teams. Really enjoyed working on this and receiving your comments and advice. Much appreciated. I'll let you have your thread back now for discussing attacking space against other formations, Deep 4-2-3-1 anyone?

[ProZone]

i've just started what will be my last save with Fulham iam not going to buy anyone i will wait till the season is over, could you lads give me a an outline off a solid 4-4-2 because i am not very good with all this tactic stuff.

Read this: http://www.fm-britain.co.uk/2009/12/02/how-to-play-a-simple-4-4-2/

Only important detail missing is to use a rigid philosophy when setting it up.

[charlstonbigspuds]

SFraser can i ask a question please? I have read in a thread where you have commented on not tweaking the mentality of player just changing the philosophy/player roles to find what suits what your looking for then tweak the RFD/RWB etc.

Earlier you said you played berbatov as TM as pushed high up,did this mean you just had him set as TM attack or had you tweaked on this occasion?

Just i have a striker who i am of thinking high up?but have had a bit of success by leaving the mentality alone as i had read from one of your posts?

Thanks in advance for any reply

[Harryseaess]

I am one of these players that set a tactic and stick with it for most of my games. But I had Chelsea coming up so I decided I would adapt my tactic to exploit their weaknesses and see if it worked, here is how Chelsea lined up:

And here is how I lined up:

As you can see, Chelsea are playing a playing a narrow diamond, therefore leaving space to exploit on the wings, I looked at their full backs (A. Cole and Bruma) and I decided that Bruma was the weakest of the two, this made me play Suarez (Macheda later came on) in a STL position, this meant that he would constantly putting Bruma under pressure.

I pushed Evra up to the WBL position to provide support for Suarez and put Bruma under even more pressure.

I set my passing to go down both the wings and I asked Suarez, Valencia and Evra to hug their line and therefore dragging Chelsea wide, leaving players in space in the middle for crosses or passes.

Gago was set as an anchor man/defend and he man marked Afellay, this kept him completely out of the game and he wasn't able to influence play for Chelsea, therefore cutting off their attacking threat as most of their moves come through him. I also set Suarez and Valencia to make their respective full backs so that they didn't get any space and they were ready to pick up on any mistakes that they made.

Playing down the wings worked a treat and it left a lot of space, below you can see that Evra is in possession and no Chelsea players are near him, either number 8 or number 2 for Chelsea have to close him down, in this case it is number 8, therefore leaving my number 19 free. Also, the number 2 of Chelsea is focused on the ball and Evra and lets Suarez make a run in behind him, this leaves Suarez in space and Evra can play a simple ball over the top and Suarez is in at goal:

The amount of space that I got on the wings was crazy, most of Chelsea's game was spent chasing me and therefore they didn't have a chance to play, overall, I had 4 clear cut chances and Chelsea had 0, this shows how much they were defending in the game.

There are plenty more examples of this but I won't upload them.

[lucatonix]

I know Real Madrid are a very difficult team to beat, but I think I may have cracked the team.

Real rely on the AML cutting inside as an Advanced Playmaker and the AMR feeding balls through to the strikers as an inside forward with Blask... in this match but normally with Ronaldo looking for goals. The front four is extremely fluid and I find difficult to mark. The DMs provide defensive stability and also means that crosses from the wings will need to be very accurate to meet the striker.

One thing I noticed from Real is they do not have a target man thus one wide player will suffice since the AMR/AML will be cutting inside leaving only the DR/L on the wing.

I also remembered how Robben had difficulty at being crowded out against Brazil, so I thought playing with two DMs would be a good idea.

The MR/ML are solely to provide the link between midfield and attack and not to cross, therefore they are on winger support and normal wide play to allow them to be close enough to connect with Montolivo.

Montolivo was the heart of the attacking moves as the Adv Playmaker support, he allowed swift counter attacks and connected well with Aguero and Hazard.

Hazard was an attacking mid attack to surge into the box on the counter and provide the DMCs a tough time in marking the AMC and MC.

Aguero as a complete forward support came deep into the hole when the DMc closed down Montolivo and allowed the Real defense to be split open on numerous occasions.

I believe the most important part of this tactic was the fluidity since the wingers, MC, AMC and ST had to be moving around constantly to be difficult to mark and open up the defense.

GK defend

DC defend

DC defend

DM defend

DM support

The two defensive midfielders are based on the two midfielders for Brazil, who defend together and also stop the AMR/L cutting inside to assist or score.

MC adv playmaker support

This player stays in the hole between Madrid's wingers and DMs. He is essential because he creates space for the the front three and draws one or both of the DMCs creating space for the AMC and the strikers.

AMC attack

This player tries to get in the gap between the DMC and DC or wide of them on a counter providing a passing opportunity for the MC.

STr complete forward support

Aguero drops deep and roams into any space created infront of the central defenders. He has the ability to beat his man thus causes problems and draws more defenders allowing him to pass to an open Forlan or Hazard in AMC and ST.

STl advanced forward

Forlan stays pinned to his marker until Aguero finds space when he peels off into the channel or into the space from inbetween the DCs

[dz47]

intesting set up. I'd be interested in some more detail on how the wingers are set up. What sort of marking setting do you give them? Also, what sort of positions do they get into in defence and attack? I'd also be intersted in seeing the settings for the DM's.

[lucatonix]

The wingers act like DL/DR when defending but position themselves on the wing slightly more advanced than the MC while attacking.

I think what I realised upon reading this forum is that a defensively sound tactic can have attacking mentalities, so the Philosophy is very fluid which allows for fluid attacks, but the defensive nature of the formation allows for the tactic to be solid. I also set the Strategy to control but alternated with standard, since I don't want to be too deep or my wingers will never be able to get to support my AM in time.

[lucatonix]

A solid Defense:

As you can see from this screenshot, the centre of the park is crowded out, forcing the Real's wingers to be wider than they would like and have no chance of cutting inside. This causes them to be easily picked up by my wingers and are useless in this attack.

There are no dangerous passes available to Diarra, with only the full-backs and 1 CB available to pass to. He does indeed decide to pass to the LB no. 2. It may look like he will have a free pass to Higuain no. 20 but we will see what happens next.

No. 20 for Real has decided to move into the box being an inside forward hoping Arbeloa can beat his man. Due to the abundance of central players, a DM can move out to close Arbeloa down, meaning the my MR is not doubled up on. It also results in no free players for Real and Arbeloa's pass is misplaced and intercepted by no 10.

You may think that if Real brought on Wingers, I would be doubled up on the wing and torn apart, but the MR would close down the full back, a DM or CB would close down the winger and there would still be a man spare to mark Reals strikers.

This defensive system essentially makes Real's fluid front 4 very static since there is no space in the centre to play in.

[lucatonix]

A fluid attack:

Montolivo is as important off the ball as he is on the ball. Because he has no forward runs he has attracted Xabi Alonso out of position creating a massive gap for the front three to utilisize and work in. Kjaer collects the ball and is closed down by no. 11 making Camacho free in this large gap. Notice also the importance of the wingers who although do not tough the ball, stay widish allowing a pass to them to keep possession if needed but wide enough to keep Madrid's wingers away from my from three.

Hazard comes deeper, into the huge gap due to Real's formation and my central mids sitting deep. Hazard attracts Diarra away from Forlan, leaving Real's CBs exposed since both DMs have now left their protective duties. Camacho has a couple of choices.

He could play to Hazard (no. 26) allowing no.22 to find space and play the ball to Forlan or

He could play to Forlan.

He chooses the second option in this case.

Forlan comes slightly deep to collect the ball dragging away no. 18 for Real. This leaves Aguero a large space to run into. If Aguero could not find the space Forlan has the choice to play to my ML who has duly lost his marker and is in a dangerous postion to cross the ball early. However my winger is not needed on this occasion.

And the result:

[lucatonix]

Counter Attacking:

The front three essentially do the business hear, they burst forward and hold up the ball for the rest to catch up:

Neymar as the advanced striker here is in space and ready to counter. Aguero is ready to burst forward into any gap that appears. Forlan may be able to beat Metzelder for pace and so may also help in the build up of the counter attack.

Montolivo does well here to beat Benzema in the air and head the ball to Neymar.

When Neymar collects the ball, he unfortunately has nowhere to go and unable to spin his player he goes deep allowing Forlan and Aguero to burst free.

Forlan moves wider to find space and Aguero continues to burst forward into the space left by Neymar dragging away the CB.

Forlan receives the ball, causing the Metzelder to close him down leaving Aguero completely unmarked down the centre since the DMs haven't got back from attacking and the other CB was pulled away by Neymar.

[lucatonix]

Forlan passes the ball to Aguero who has a straight forward path to goal, and no defenders close enough to stop him.

From this position you would expect Aguero to score, but Casillas pulls off a good save to keep Atletico only one goal infront.

An important thing here is also that the front three do most of the work and the rest of the team advance to positions to recycle possession but also are do not leave the team vulnerable to a counter, counter attack.

[Harryseaess]

Brilliantly explained and great examples lucatonix, is there any chance of you uploading the tactic and posting it on here please? I would love to give it a try.

[lucatonix]

I cannot upload it at the moment since I am on the wrong computer. I can post the settings i used:

Philosophy: Very Fluid

Strategy: Control/Standard (can't really remember)

GK - defend

CB central defender - defend

CB central defender - defend

DMr defensive midfielder - support --- off the ball and passing ability is needed for both defensive midfielders as well as the usual defensive attributes

DMl defensive midfielder - defend

MR winger - support --- the wingers need the defensive attributes of a full-back, acceleration to lose their marker and good crossing since

ML winger - support --- crosses will need to be very accurate to pick out your quick attackers.

CM advanced midfielder - support

AM attacking midfielder - attack

STr complete forward - support run with ball on mixed

STl advanced forward - attack run with ball mixed, through balls often

[lucatonix]

What I do believe is very important is making sure one of your strikers is on loose man marking. This makes sure when possession is regained, he is far up enough the pitch to latch onto a punt up the pitch or a long through ball and can hold the ball up for your other striker who should be surging forward. The striker also helps defensively because he reduces the passing options by being able to intercept passes to both CBs at times meaning Real often end up running out of passing choices.

The marking must be loose because it means the striker allows the reduce passing options without being too close to the defenders so he can start a counter attack. If the striker has a poor marking attribute then tight marking also works but a good first touch and strength is essential.

[aderow]

I remember when I was playing Real, I managed to cope with them by showing Ronaldo and Kaka wide, making sure that their front 4 did not have much room to operate.

I also made sure to occupy Xabi Alonso so he didn't have the space to playmake from deep.

I played deep, knowing they would attack me, in order to maximize the space on the flanks and in behind their defense.

I think having a player mark the oppositions deep midfielder/playmaker (especially if his name is marcos senna) because it reduces the chance of getting hurt by long shots and also helps you to win the ball nice and high up the pitch.

I think that you are probably gonna find more space to exploit while counterattacking than you may find in a general attacking situation.

[SFraser]

I think that you are probably gonna find more space to exploit while counterattacking than you may find in a general attacking situation.

That's pretty much a rule to be fair. What you tend to lack when counter-attacking is numbers in support. When you are an extremely strong side that rarely gives up the ball then you have to find a way to play in the absence of counter-attacking space.

The way I do that is explained in this thread: Creativity and Flair

[aderow]

That's pretty much a rule to be fair. What you tend to lack when counter-attacking is numbers in support. When you are an extremely strong side that rarely gives up the ball then you have to find a way to play in the absence of counter-attacking space.

The way I do that is explained in this thread: Creativity and Flair

And that's exactly the issue that I have been having in the last few games.

I switched from my 4-4-2 w/ AML and AMR to a wide 4-3-3 with FL and FR.

My wide forwards have almost max closing down so it usually gets them dropping deep and closing down attacking full backs. It also means that when we regain the ball my wide forwards are deep so my defenders/midfielders don't have to resort to hollywood balls....but lately teams have not been attacking me with their full backs which means less space for me to counter attack into and now, more than I would like, there's a gap between my midfield and my attackers.

I'm gonna try increasing my wide forwards' closing to max and/or reduce their mentalities in order to get them to drop deep on more of a regular basis against teams who don't attack me as much.

[Jenko_EFC]

I figured since this thread has just been bumped I might as well help keep it going with a summary of a match I just played yesterday against Tottenham. I am Manchester United for a "big club" save and I'm on a 9 match unbeaten streak currently on the 23rd of October, first season, seeing me come up against the likes of Fulham, Everton, Blackburn, Manchester City and Inter and now I come up against Spurs at home. I thought my run would come to an end here as it's a difficult match and my luck might be running out.

Checking their team list their squad at the moment was: Gomes; Assou-Ekotto: Corluka: King: Woodgate; Bentley: Modric: Palacios: Huddlestone; Defoe: Crouch. However, Assou-Ekotto was injured and Bentley suspended so I took a guess Bale and Lennon would start which they did so it was a decent gamble. Quite a good guess so now I had a decent picture of their starting line-up bar two but I guessed it would be Bale and Lennon but at this point I wasn't 100% sure, anyway here's what I did.

King and Woodgate are clever, strong and aggressive and have decent defensive stats and it's not too often they miss interceptions. I used Berbatov, he matches upto them in the air and is slighlty more clever than them. He'd also help play passes with his 18 flair to my wingers.

Bale and Corluka would often be out of position as they're quite attacking but Corluka not gung-ho like Bale. Further up the wing, Lennon and Modric awaited. Lennon is deadly quick but fairly, well, thick and Modric is devestating technically and would be feeding Defoe all game. That was the key. I decided to play Wes Brown fullback, defend to cover for Defoe's running into the channels and have Ferdinand mark him, two physically dominant defenders would deal with him whilst Modric was marked by my defensive winger Valencia. Nani was on the other side to make him cut in without giving him the instruction to. He has more freedom this way I feel. Evans played left-back because whilst I could outpace Lennon with Fabio or Evra, I decided to outsmart him with Evans, a safer option I felt.

Crouch, the 6 foot 7 giant vs Vidic my 6 foot 4 defender but he's clever, aggressive and determined. Whilst Crouch wins the aerial battles, you wouldn't bet against Vidic beating him in every other department rendering him useless apart from "hoofs" so I needed to make them useless too. I did this by having Scholes at DM, not moving to track any runners but offensively he can spread the play.

Palacios vs Anderson and Huddlestone vs Sandro in midfield with Scholes behind them. 3v2 in midfield. A quick look at Palacios' profile tells me he's similar to Anderson though not quite as good. So we should win the midfield battle, right? Not good enough for me, Huddlestone and Palacios are decent at closing down and Sandro and Anderson are decent passers, moreso but they may not have enough time on the ball so played Scholes right behind them for his usual array of passes. We should definitely win the battle here atleast.

To attack them, I used my wingers Nani and Valencia and gave them "Mixed" instructions, I basically told them to go out and do what they want. No roaming or HUB though, I don't want to force them into roaming if it's not necessary and they can keep their position. Scholes is a master at playing balls to the fullbacks and wingers, so playing with wide width got them really wide and he can play these passes out of nowhere to create an attack.

So, in the end, my team ended up like this:

I untick everything except for swap position that's below RFD, although I'll tell you anything that changed in the text.

Name - Role - Duty - Other manual instructions - Why occassionally

Van der Sar: Goalkeeper, defend

Jonny Evans: Wingback, attack - RFD rare. I wanted a high mentality but he won't get forward much with no RFD.

Wes Brown: Wingback, attack - Same as Evans.

Rio Ferdinand: Ball-playing defender, cover

Nemanja Vidic: Limited defender, stopper

Paul Scholes: Deep-lying playmaker, defend - Wanted lower mentality so gave defend. Highered CF, no HUB, slow tempo is enough usually.

Sandro: Box-to-box midfielder - Max CF. Long Shots mixed and through balls often.

Anderson: Box-to-box midfielder - Same as Sandro.

Nani: Advanced playmaker, support - Gave role for high CF, low mentality, mixed everything.

Valencia: Advanced playmaker, support - Same as Nani.

Berbatov: Trequartista - Same as default.

"Barca" 4-1-2-3 shape.

Subs: Tomasz Kuszczack; Gary Neville: Fabio; Darren Fletcher: Ibrahim Afellay; Wayne Rooney: Michael Owen

My team instructions were:

D-Line: Normal. I wanted it high for Crouch as he wasn't going to beat Vidic for pace was he?! However, I couln't risk it with Defoe and Lennon counter-attacking.

Width: Wide. As mentioned beforehand, Scholes plays some sublime balls to my wingers when they're wide as he has the incredible ability to spot them. His high creativity (19) means he sees alot of options, and most aren't flamboyant so doesn't need high flair (he has 10) to play them although they look stylish because you wouldn't have seen them options.

Tempo: Slow. I didn't want to rush things as they are deadly on the counter and didn't want to give the ball away cheaply by rushing.

Anyway, onto the good part; the match.

My defence

Start from the back I suppose!

Dealing with Lennon

In this screenshot, you can see Evans and Nani doubling up on Lennon. Nani eveuntually gets beaten for pace but Lennon kicks it too far ahead of himself and Evans deals with it easily. See how tight Vidic is on Crouch and that Defoe is between Ferdinand and Brown and if a ball was played over, both are in a decent enough position to deal with the ball.

Dealing with knock-down's

You can see Crouch vs Vidic in the air which obviously Crouch wins but look at Defoe, Scholes doing his job by tracking any runners, Ferdinand within a couple of yards and the ball headed for Evans. Simple.

My Midfield

The main part for me.

Scholes in plenty of space, Sandro and Anderson pick up their men. Too easy in midfield today.

My Attack

I figured since this was my only goal, it was good enough for the "attack" part of this!

Valencia recieves the ball and slots it home. Had he hug touchline, he wouldn't have cut inside. Had he anything other than mixed and he may have stayed wide looking for crossing opportunities rather than cut in when needed. Afellay played a stunning ball too.

There's a story behind Afellay too. For a month, I bigged him up in the media saying he was the next big thing, even attending one of his matches, making bids that were rejected, the lot. Eventually, I was on his favoured personnel and got upest with his manager and wanted to leave, I snoop in and buy him. But because of all this praise he thought he was the main man. So I decided to completely ignore him, harsh I know, only get angry when he does something wrong but don't give praise all willy-nilly. After a few games like this, he scores a screamer against Everton and gets a 9.0! Ever since his form has been very good/excellent and isn't so cocky and complacent!

As you can probably tell, I ran out of steam almost towards the end where I described the match so sorry but you get what I wanted to put across anyway.

[SFraser]

Nice write-up.

I thought the first part was great. Predicting line-ups and possible tactical problems based on your knowledge of the opponent, then providing solutions and counters and ways to exploit the opponent based on your knowledge of your own team and of tactical principles. Knowledge of how players behave in FM is a tactical advantage you can only get one way, by watching them play in FM.

Personally I don't think that there is much that can compete with a good and proper analysis of the opponent and a good and proper "tactical build" to deal with them. That kind of depth is both a passion and an immense boon to your side.

I thought what you wrote was spot on but there are two things I think are worth pointing out:

Scholes: When reducing his mentality you opted to increase his CF. A good choice, but I would also have gone with making his passing more direct to counteract the impact of mentality on his passing risk-taking.

Wideplay: Hugs Touchline and Cuts Inside are "with ball" instructions and only come into effect when the ball is at the players feet. What you saw with Valencia scoring his goal was his RFD instruction. That's the benefit of mixed RFD, players are not sprinting high up the pitch ASAP nor do they hang around waiting only for golden RFD opportunities. RFD Mixed is the best of both worlds in terms of run behaviour. Not always the best option but I personally see mixed RFD as the golden setting for the majority of attacking roles I use.

Good stuff, the length of the post might put off some people but it's their loss. Well worth reading.

[Jenko_EFC]

Nice write-up.

I thought the first part was great.

Thanks.

A few weeks ago when the season started, I couldn't get away from football and why managers play particular players for particular games, I've always done basically that in FM but recently I've started doing it with immense detail and I hope I highlighted that in the post.

Personally I don't think that there is much that can compete with a good and proper analysis of the opponent and a good and proper "tactical build" to deal with them. That kind of depth is both a passion and an immense boon to your side.

Again, thanks. You probably know I am very passionatte about football in general and always have been but it is only about 6 months ago I looked into the main and probably most interesting part: the tactics.

I thought what you wrote was spot on but there are two things I think are worth pointing out:

Scholes: When reducing his mentality you opted to increase his CF. A good choice, but I would also have gone with making his passing more direct to counteract the impact of mentality on his passing risk-taking.

Wideplay: Hugs Touchline and Cuts Inside are "with ball" instructions and only come into effect when the ball is at the players feet. What you saw with Valencia scoring his goal was his RFD instruction. That's the benefit of mixed RFD, players are not sprinting high up the pitch ASAP nor do they hang around waiting only for golden RFD opportunities. RFD Mixed is the best of both worlds in terms of run behaviour. Not always the best option but I personally see mixed RFD as the golden setting for the majority of attacking roles I use.

Good feedback, I suppose Scholes with direct passing would work but I wanted balls out to Evans and Brown who are mentally good and would have found a decent midfield option which ties in with my slow tempo. Although direct would find Nani/Valencia/Berbatov/Sandro and Anderson, if the ball was lost I was quite worried we'd get hit on the break but I suppose with no one having RFD often at all, I shouldn't have been too reluctant.

I'm not 100% sure on that, I suppose keeping Nani on the left made him cut inside without the ball and Valencia maybe ran to the wing alot despite having normal instruction. I think I got a decent balance though and though Valencia got through on goal with his RFD instruction, he was about that narrow all the way along and it wasn't a "/" shaped diagonal run in all fairness. I assumed had he hug touchline, he'd be a bit wider and cut inside would have been wide before cutting in so probably got mixed up.

To further boast about doing it this way, after this match, I'm on a 10 match unbeaten streak, only conceding 3 goals in the Premier League, top of the league by a point with City breathing down my neck, my morale is superb bar 3 players: Rafael; Guti and Gourcuff. Gourcuff and Rafael hae just returned from injury whilst Guti was signed because I love watching him play with his: 20 first touch; 20 passing; 18 technique; composure 18; 20 creativity; 18 flair along with above average for most other important stats. An absolute bargain at £1.5m or so and is 32 so has a good 2/3 seasons left! He has very good morale mainly because Scholes, Giggs, Gourcuff, Berbatov provide alot of creativity so isn't used so much in important matches. A few appearences and he'll be back upto Superb again.

[John_Cro]

I personaly watched C. Ronaldo performance on my barca save and have to say that he plays always as MR in R. Madrid. His stats are unbelivable. So, my guessing is that they put him on with a lot of CF and high mentality as well as RFD and RWB on often. I'll try for myself with messi and see how it goes.

This thread is excellent like the rest of SFraser threads

Cheers

[aderow]

Just wanted to share this goal. Against middlesbrough at home so I let some of the youngsters get some playing time.

First evra plays the ball up to neymar who has dropped off into the space in front of both center backs. Now as you can see the left center back has moved closer to his partner leaving ample space for no. 22, a 17 yr old italian regen named nicola pirelli, to run into if he is played in by neymar; but that did not happen on this occasion.

Neymar dribbles towards goal and soon his space is swallowed up by opposing players. Neymar then plays the ball back to no. 19, a 16 yr old english regen named scott palmer.

This looked like a great opportunity for palmer to play the ball over the top to pirelli and if the ball got to pirelli, there would be nothing stopping him getting to goal. Palmer has the space and time to make a solid decision (well as solid a decision that a 16 yr old can make at least) and pirelli has ample space in front of him to head to goal.

Instead, palmer brings the ball the forward and is closed by the left mid and left back with a center mid in close proximity. This now leaves space out wide for santon.

Palmer plays the ball to santon who then crosses it in, pirelli gets in front of pogatetz, and scores his first goal for man utd.

This sort of stuff happened a majority of the match. It helps that rooney scored early, in the 10th min, forcing my opposition to re-think how they would approach this match. It also helps that middlesbrough's defense was so unorganized as you can see in the pictures. In the first picture you can tell that both center backs almost don't know what to do when neymar drops off.

I know it was against weaker opposition but it was nice to see some of the youngsters playing like the first team and combining for a goal that I found enjoyable.

[Jimi_Mes]

Outstanding topic! I love the input coming in from everyone, comes to show how important space has become in modern football. Keep it coming.

Personally I don't think that there is much that can compete with a good and proper analysis of the opponent and a good and proper "tactical build" to deal with them. That kind of depth is both a passion and an immense boon to your side.

A quote of poetic value