Struggling with 4-3-3/4-2-3-1

I want some advice on my tactics, I concede a lot, fail to control and struggle against teams I really should be beating. Bare in mind I'm Arsenal I normally play 4-3-3 away at big sides and 4-2-3-1 at home

My mentality Standard, Fluidity Balanced

- Shorter Passing

- Pass into space

- Play out of defence

- Play Narrower

- Push Higher Up

- Hassle Opponents

- Use Offside Trap

- Be More Expressive

I can't upload pic (well I don't know how to) so I'll type the formations out

4-2-3-1

WB (a)---- CD(d)---CD(d)----WB(a)

------------DLP(s)----BWM(d)------

W(a)---------------AP(a)-------IF(a)

---------------------TM(a)-----------

4-3-3

WB (a)---- CD(d)---CD(d)----WB(a)

-------------------A(d)---------------

--------------DLP(s)---DLP(s)--------

W(a)------------------------------IF(a)

--------------------AF(a)--------------

Any ideas why I'm struggling so bad

Can you explain to me why you choose all the TI's you did and the reasons behind it?

You use a fairly standard mentality and even though you push up the d-line is still not high enough to play using the offside trap effectively imo. For that to work you need a really high line not a moderately low one. Also I'm struggling to see how your two central midfielders link up with the 3 AM's and striker? I don't think the DLP is enough to make it work. The front 4 you use are all aggressive and high up the pitch yet the 2 central players are expected to keep their shape and break up attacks yet at the same time venture forward and provide them with the ball, its an impossible task.

The job of the 2 MC's in the 4-2-3-1 is to hold their position and not be run ragged, this is not important but its vital that this happens. If not what you see are massive holes when one of them either steps up or moves wide. It becomes easy to bypass your whole midfield with 1 simple pass. Imo your AMC should be the one dropping deep and getting the ball to provide the link up that you need. This will make you more stable and actually stop your team being split into 2 different teams like currently is happening due to how aggressive the front 4 are.

In the 4-3-3 you have issues in the middle too for the same reasons. Who from the middle 2 is going to realistically provide then front 3 with the ball? The DLP's are quite reserved and aren't really runners so again won't always be able to pass the ball to the aggressive front 3. In both your set ups there is no variety or real movement. You've stuck every single attacking player on attack yet have no-one to actually link the play up for this to work which means at times the players will be really isolated as your team are playing as 2 separate units inside the first 11. That's not a good thing.

We really need more specifics and examples of why you are struggling though. Saying you concede and struggle is one thing but it doesn't really help us as those statements are rather broad and could cover a number of things. We need you to tell us exactly the types of issues you are seeing, how often, what you've tried to do to combat this and so on.

If you read the FAQ's at the top of the forum it explains how to add screenshots to the forum.

Thanks for the reply the reason I played those team instructions was to try and play similar to how Arsenal play in real life but the problem is I have very little control over games even the ones against lower opposition, even when I win it's in a very unconvincing manner and every time the oppposition go forward they look like scoring, against big teams I concede very early and struggle which was actually my thinking behind the 4-3-3 to have 3 in midfield and not get overrun in the middle of the park.

You say DLP isn't enough to make it work what would you recommend ?

The distribution of attacking, support and defensive roles in your 4-3-3 is really not great. You have 3 attacking players up the pitch, who are set attacking so they will stay high up the pitch. Then you have two DLP(S) in midfield, who will always stay relatively deep even in possession. This means that the only way to link between your attack and midfield is the WB(A), and even then this is going to channel everything you do down the flanks. This in turn makes your play really one dimensional, and easy for the opposition to shut down (I actually imagine you end up playing a lot of long hopeful balls forward or have meaningless possession in midfield).

What you need to ask yourself is how are you going to link defence and attack? Do you need all your attacking players to be on attack duty, or could you have one or two support roles? In midfield, why do you need two playmakers next to each other? In real life Arsenal have players like Ramsey who surge into the box, so ideally you would want to replicate that. Finally, look at where the space is in the 4-3-3 formation. It is all in AMC, and that is where there is space for players to make runs or move into to make space for others. How can you exploit this?

The distribution of attacking, support and defensive roles in your 4-3-3 is really not great. You have 3 attacking players up the pitch, who are set attacking so they will stay high up the pitch. Then you have two DLP(S) in midfield, who will always stay relatively deep even in possession. This means that the only way to link between your attack and midfield is the WB(A), and even then this is going to channel everything you do down the flanks. This in turn makes your play really one dimensional, and easy for the opposition to shut down (I actually imagine you end up playing a lot of long hopeful balls forward or have meaningless possession in midfield).

What you need to ask yourself is how are you going to link defence and attack? Do you need all your attacking players to be on attack duty, or could you have one or two support roles? In midfield, why do you need two playmakers next to each other? In real life Arsenal have players like Ramsey who surge into the box, so ideally you would want to replicate that. Finally, look at where the space is in the 4-3-3 formation. It is all in AMC, and that is where there is space for players to make runs or move into to make space for others. How can you exploit this?

I appreciate the response yeah I do end up having a lot of meaningless possession but I've tweeked the 4-3-3 with some success so far I have Ramsey as a box to box mid and my inside forward is on support I've only played two games with it so far but it seems to be working time will tell if it's going to work long term

What about Cleon's question here: "Can you explain to me why you choose all the TI's you did and the reasons behind it?"

Aside from Roles and Duties, TIs and PIs are really critical and you've layered on a few.

What about Cleon's question here: "Can you explain to me why you choose all the TI's you did and the reasons behind it?"

Aside from Roles and Duties, TIs and PIs are really critical and you've layered on a few.

The thinking behind the TI's is because I was looking to play free flowing passing football in possession and off the ball I wanted to play high and press to win it back