Playing very wide with lots pf players "cutting in" - ME exploit?

I´ve always wanted to create my own version of 4-3-3 (flat back 4, 3 cm´s and 3 st´s) but so far my numerous attempts at this using the TC have been unsuccesful. In my recent save things have been going quite well and i´ve managed to build a decent young high potential type squad relying on the TC and lots of touchline shouts. I felt that I was not quite getting what I wanted from my players so I had another go at the old 4-3-3 but this time as a "classic" tactic.

I used all of Cleons advice, read through alot of tactical discussions, whatched games on full and tinkered with everyting (had lots of fun doing it!).

To get the team to play how I wanted I ended up with the "width" slider really high, usually to the max, and my L and R sided strikers with "cut inside" wide play instructions. I also use "cut insed" on my fullbacks alot. This suits my players well, makes the formation work how I want to and it produces good results. Sometime maybe even a little to good.....

I was wondering if this is somehow exploiting a weakness in the AI match engine? Or if I have suddenly become quite the tactician?

It seems that the central striker gets "forgotten" by the defense quite a bit, allowing him some good chances or creating the need for defenders to "break line" to try and close him down quickly and thereby opnening up space for the other two strikers to run into throughballs....my central striker is a good player (but not a world class one) and he is getting a lot of goals and assists this way in the Premier League and the Europa Cup.

It probably isnt an exploit as such but as your winger cuts inside the DC will be drawn across to close him down, if the striker is intelligent he will take up the space the DC has left, one good ball into the box and bang goal.

Ive always liked the 4-3-3 but never been able to get it working. Do you have any screenshots? or more details?

Well, there are no wingers, just 3 strikers, but the ones on the left and the right do play quite wide as width is set to the extreme. I don´t have screenshots on this computer but my team instructions, from memory are: slow tempo, short passing, very high d-line. Closing down is pretty high on strikers and midfielders but lower on defenders. Central midfielder is quite deep with no forward runs, his role is a "holding" type role. Other two midfielders (or left and right side of the central ones) are workhorse type players but they do have a lot of creative freedom and are good enough to use it. Central striker is a poacher type and the other two "side-strikers" are skillfull and quick, lots of run with ball and creative freedom. And "cuts inside" instructions really seem to be crucial. Fullbacks er key player because they have to keep a flat 4 man defence pretty tight and support the attack in a sensible way. So try to get good allrounders.

I would recommend something like this to start with and than watch games and tweek as necessary.

And I agree it´s probably not an exploit per se, but seems to be something that most AI teams struggle with.

Well, there are no wingers, just 3 strikers, but the ones on the left and the right do play quite wide as width is set to the extreme. I don´t have screenshots on this computer but my team instructions, from memory are: slow tempo, short passing, very high d-line. Closing down is pretty high on strikers and midfielders but lower on defenders. Central midfielder is quite deep with no forward runs, his role is a "holding" type role. Other two midfielders (or left and right side of the central ones) are workhorse type players but they do have a lot of creative freedom and are good enough to use it. Central striker is a poacher type and the other two "side-strikers" are skillfull and quick, lots of run with ball and creative freedom. And "cuts inside" instructions really seem to be crucial. Fullbacks er key player because they have to keep a flat 4 man defence pretty tight and support the attack in a sensible way. So try to get good allrounders.

I would recommend something like this to start with and than watch games and tweek as necessary.

Yeah that setup seems to make sense. If your playing with three central strikers, three midfielders and playing in the prem you have a spare man in midfield and upfront as most teams play 4-4-2/4-5-1 etc. Dont think ive ever played a prem team that played 3 at the back so your front three strikers will definately cause havoc. Id just be wary of playing against teams that a)have a good AMC i.e David Silva, Mata, Rooney to some extent b) fast wingers playing in AML/R Walcott, Lennon etc. As you are very weak in that position. Do you change anything depending on who your playing?

Indeed it seems to work well against 442/451. I actually seem to have more problems against really good DM´s. If they stay deep enough they can dictate play against me quite a bit (probaly because I play so wide). Wingers have not caused me great problems, my Fb´s are decent and not too attacking really, also because the formation is so wide my midfielders often help my fb´s out when defending. Quality AMC players can be difficult to handle but it seems that my 3 man midfield often manages to sort of cut of his supply, if that makes any sense.

I don´t really change things much any more as the tactic is working mostly how I like it too and results are firmly in the "overachieving" range...but I do react to certain things in game occasionaly. But I don´t win every game! Just most of them :-)

Indeed it seems to work well against 442/451. I actually seem to have more problems against really good DM´s. If they stay deep enough they can dictate play against me quite a bit (probaly because I play so wide). Wingers have not caused me great problems, my Fb´s are decent and not too attacking really, also because the formation is so wide my midfielders often help my fb´s out when defending. Quality AMC players can be difficult to handle but it seems that my 3 man midfield often manages to sort of cut of his supply, if that makes any sense.

I don´t really change things much any more as the tactic is working mostly how I like it too and results are firmly in the "overachieving" range...but I do react to certain things in game occasionaly. But I don´t win every game! Just most of them :-)

OUt of interest who are you playing as?

I might try this when I get bored of my current game. I love the 4-3-3 think its a brilliant formation. COuld you not set one of your MCr/l to man mark the DM, that way he will always be being closed down.

I´m playing as Crystal Palace. Only players left from original team are Clyne, Zaha and Williams, this is my 4th season. I could try to man mark the DM with on of the midfielders but I would be a little worried about my shape doing that. Will probably try it sometime.

I really recommend the 433. Always loved it and i´m really happy to be finally getting results with it.

I´m playing as Crystal Palace. Only players left from original team are Clyne, Zaha and Williams, this is my 4th season. I could try to man mark the DM with on of the midfielders but I would be a little worried about my shape doing that. Will probably try it sometime.

I really recommend the 433. Always loved it and i´m really happy to be finally getting results with it.

Oh right, so hardly a top team. I know what you mean with losing shape but if you have a 3 man midfield against say a 4-1-2-2-1 even if a player does close the DM down you still have a two on two in centre midfield so isnt too bad.

Im going to try it, have bookmarked this thread so I can come back to it, although the way I imagine it is something like this:

--------GK--------

--FB-DC--DC-FB--

----MC-MC-MC----

----ST--ST--ST---

That seems very very simple haha. Short passing high D line slow tempo Id personally go high closing down as well.

GK - Sweeper Keeper - attack. To gather any balls over the top

DR - Either WB or FB depending on player

DC - Id have two BPD out of personal preference but DC would do fine

DL - Opposite to DR just to give some balance

MCR/L - B2B, the "machines" of the team they are everywhere

MC - DLP Defend/AP Attack. I would change between the two depending on whether I wanted him to sit back more or press forward

STR/L - Deep Lying forwards support

STC - Poacher attack

Thats how I see it anyway. Although I would have a few variations. Maybe have the two outside strikers as AF and the center as Target man, to win the ball and flick it on. I would also be tempted to go for a DLP/BWM/AP combination in the midfield. One too destroy, one too sit back, one too create.

What you think to that?

Oh right, so hardly a top team. I know what you mean with losing shape but if you have a 3 man midfield against say a 4-1-2-2-1 even if a player does close the DM down you still have a two on two in centre midfield so isnt too bad.

Im going to try it, have bookmarked this thread so I can come back to it, although the way I imagine it is something like this:

--------GK--------

--FB-DC--DC-FB--

----MC-MC-MC----

----ST--ST--ST---

That seems very very simple haha. Short passing high D line slow tempo Id personally go high closing down as well.

GK - Sweeper Keeper - attack. To gather any balls over the top

DR - Either WB or FB depending on player

DC - Id have two BPD out of personal preference but DC would do fine

DL - Opposite to DR just to give some balance

MCR/L - B2B, the "machines" of the team they are everywhere

MC - DLP Defend/AP Attack. I would change between the two depending on whether I wanted him to sit back more or press forward

STR/L - Deep Lying forwards support

STC - Poacher attack

Thats how I see it anyway. Although I would have a few variations. Maybe have the two outside strikers as AF and the center as Target man, to win the ball and flick it on. I would also be tempted to go for a DLP/BWM/AP combination in the midfield. One too destroy, one too sit back, one too create.

What you think to that?

I would do it slightly different:

GK - Sweeper Keeper(Attack). To gather any balls over the top -Agreed

DR/L - Full Back(Attack). Provide wide and cross for the ST's

DC - Id have two BPD out of personal preference but DC would do fine -Agreed

MCR/L - Ball Winning Midfielders (probably 1 Def and 1 Sup). Get the ball back quickly and cover the Full backs

MC - DLP(Defend). Provide cover for DC's and BWM's when when they are pull out of position due to high pressing

STC - Deeplying Forward(Support). Creative in the final third

STR/L - Advance Forwards or any role that will move into the flanks and lead the line

I would do it slightly different:

GK - Sweeper Keeper(Attack). To gather any balls over the top -Agreed

DR/L - Full Back(Attack). Provide wide and cross for the ST's

DC - Id have two BPD out of personal preference but DC would do fine -Agreed

MCR/L - Ball Winning Midfielders (probably 1 Def and 1 Sup). Get the ball back quickly and cover the Full backs

MC - DLP(Defend). Provide cover for DC's and BWM's when when they are pull out of position due to high pressing

STC - Deeplying Forward(Support). Creative in the final third

STR/L - Advance Forwards or any role that will move into the flanks and lead the line

Yeah I think that would work as well, I think I prefer the idea of one central striker who drops deep (rooney would be perfect for this) then two running off him who will score the goals. The one thing I dont agree with is the full backs both attacking as I think this will leave you too open to counters. I would definately leave at least one on defend just for the sake of keeping some form of defensive stability. BWM in midfield would probably be better as IMO it is easier to find high quality BWM than it is to find a player who can play B2B without being absoloutely knackered after game so yeah I agree with you on that one.

Yeah I think that would work as well, I think I prefer the idea of one central striker who drops deep (rooney would be perfect for this) then two running off him who will score the goals. The one thing I dont agree with is the full backs both attacking as I think this will leave you too open to counters. I would definately leave at least one on defend just for the sake of keeping some form of defensive stability. BWM in midfield would probably be better as IMO it is easier to find high quality BWM than it is to find a player who can play B2B without being absoloutely knackered after game so yeah I agree with you on that one.

I understand where your coming from but with the high pressing and offside trap (I forgot to mention) will reduce the chances of a successful counter. As long as the team has some sort of control over the game the risks will hopefully be low and the rewards are great.

I understand where your coming from but with the high pressing and offside trap (I forgot to mention) will reduce the chances of a successful counter. As long as the team has some sort of control over the game the risks will hopefully be low and the rewards are great.

Hopefully being the key word might give it a try later tonight, just with like Barca or someone similar, just to see how well i can get it working. Then trial it with a less succesful team

Hopefully being the key word might give it a try later tonight, just with like Barca or someone similar, just to see how well i can get it working. Then trial it with a less succesful team

I've been using something similar with Newcastle and they are no barca

I've been using something similar with Newcastle and they are no barca

Going to try it tonight, didnt get time last night. Newcastle have the perfect team for it as well with Arfa,Cisse,Ba partnership up top. Im going to do that, how you finding it with Newcastle?

My approach with the front three was having the central striker as the point of the attack. He stays central and leads the line. The other two operate in a more of a free role, they get out wide, drop deep, link up with midfielders, fullbacks and eachother. I also use a high d-line and offside trap. It´s not perfect but it works for me. I have fast CB´s.

Fullbacks as I said are key. I would be very careful about attacking instructions for them. Make sure they defend properly first then try to tweek them to help out offensively more without leaving you too vulnerable. Use there strengths. If you have a Fb with good dribbling skills they can get a lot of space to run into with this formation sometimes.

In a 4-4-2 you have two players operating on each flank. With this formation you often (with high "width") have 3 players (Fb, MCl, STl) operating on the same flank, this can lead to some very open overlapping oppertunities for Fb.

I would also recommend "going classic" with this tactic. I did not get this to work as a I wanted with the TC. And...most importantly....play very wide with "cut inside" instructions.

Let me know how you get on.

My approach with the front three was having the central striker as the point of the attack. He stays central and leads the line. The other two operate in a more of a free role, they get out wide, drop deep, link up with midfielders, fullbacks and eachother. I also use a high d-line and offside trap. It´s not perfect but it works for me. I have fast CB´s.

Fullbacks as I said are key. I would be very careful about attacking instructions for them. Make sure they defend properly first then try to tweek them to help out offensively more without leaving you too vulnerable. Use there strengths. If you have a Fb with good dribbling skills they can get a lot of space to run into with this formation sometimes.

In a 4-4-2 you have two players operating on each flank. With this formation you often (with high "width") have 3 players (Fb, MCl, STl) operating on the same flank, this can lead to some very open overlapping oppertunities for Fb.

I would also recommend "going classic" with this tactic. I did not get this to work as a I wanted with the TC. And...most importantly....play very wide with "cut inside" instructions.

Let me know how you get on.

Some helpful tips in here, Im going to try and set it up tonight. Although Im definately more of a TC man than a "classic" man so Im going to give it a try with that first, if I cant get it working I'll try it with classic.

Im think Im going to start with two FB's just on defend duties whilst I get some sort of defensive solidarity. Going to go for Newcastle so I may need to sign a new DC as they are not very pacy, set them up as BPD both with Defend Duites. I think Im going to go for two BWM and a AP in MC. One BWM on defend with quite low closing down, one on support and the AP on support will not let him roam as I want him pretty stationary. Up top im going to go for two AF STCR/L and a DLP in STC on support role so he drops deep and picks up the ball to link up play.

Specific instructions will be

- STCR/L AF Attack: move into channels and cut inside

- STC DLP support: Run from deep, dribble often

- MC BWM Defend: Lower his closing down so he stays pretty stationary, maybe even change to DLP if I have the players for it.

- FB: Tweak player instructions depending on individual ability i.e high dribbling, pace etc.

- Very wide, high line, high press, short passing.

Does that sound similar to what you have setup?

Yes, very similiar. The only clear difference is the setup of the front three but I believe your approach could work very well too. (Ben Arfa is your DLF, right? He could do an excellent job in that role I think)

Definately try to bring in a pacy CB. Good idea to start with defensive on Fb and tweak individual instruction accordin to ability.

Watch the games on full to begin with!

Things to watch out for:

-Be careful not to have your passing too short. Sometimes your defenders won´t have too many options with very short passing and will launch it upfield too much. Possession is important so we don´t want to give the ball away that easily.

-Full back positioning and attacking play.

-Midfielders forward runs - this needs too be balanced. Too much will cause more problems than too little so be cautious to begin with.

-Defender closing down (if they do this too much it and start missing tackles that can leave opposition strikers with alot of space because of the high-dline).

I like that you´ll have a go with the TC. Hopefully you can succeed where I have failed! Let me know!

Yes, very similiar. The only clear difference is the setup of the front three but I believe your approach could work very well too. (Ben Arfa is your DLF, right? He could do an excellent job in that role I think)

Definately try to bring in a pacy CB. Good idea to start with defensive on Fb and tweak individual instruction accordin to ability.

Watch the games on full to begin with!

Things to watch out for:

-Be careful not to have your passing too short. Sometimes your defenders won´t have too many options with very short passing and will launch it upfield too much. Possession is important so we don´t want to give the ball away that easily.

-Full back positioning and attacking play.

-Midfielders forward runs - this needs too be balanced. Too much will cause more problems than too little so be cautious to begin with.

-Defender closing down (if they do this too much it and start missing tackles that can leave opposition strikers with alot of space because of the high-dline).

I like that you´ll have a go with the TC. Hopefully you can succeed where I have failed! Let me know!

Yeah Ben Arfa will be the middle striker, although he starts the season injured for a few months so that could be a potential problem. I usually watch on full untill I am happy with how they are playing anyway so that should be no problems

Soloutions

-Be careful not to have your passing too short. Sometimes your defenders won´t have too many options with very short passing and will launch it upfield too much. Possession is important so we don´t want to give the ball away that easily. Using BPD should be a pretty good soloution to that problem, also with the high width FB's should be a passing option most of the time

-Full back positioning and attacking play.To start with im just going to rely on creative midfielder and strikers for attacking, keep the full backs defensive untill Im confident pushing them on

-Midfielders forward runs - this needs too be balanced. Too much will cause more problems than too little so be cautious to begin with.Again Ill start with two of my Mids pretty defensive just sit in the center of the park and link up play, when Im happy with the basis i plan to start chaning rolls and making things a little more dynamic

-Defender closing down (if they do this too much it and start missing tackles that can leave opposition strikers with alot of space because of the high-dline).Ill have a Sweeper keeper with an attack dury which should stop this to some extent, Im also hoping my more defensively minded MC will track back so that the DC's dont have to rush out to make a challenge

I will let you know how it goes

EDIT: Im just trying to think of other teams that are good for the 4-3-3, Chelsea is one with Drogba the central man torres sturridge running off him. Can you think of any others?

Sounds good.

Chelsea could potentially dominate with this sort of tactic.......perhaps Liverpool with Carroll central and Suarez, Bellamy(Kuyt) running off him. Swansea propably with Graham/Sinclair plus maybe Dyer or Routledge. Also you would have Gylfi Sigurdsson then who could really thrive in a 3 man midfield. Wigan with Di Santo, Maloney, Rodallega, Moses, could be fun.

Lots of possibilites!

Sounds good.

Chelsea could potentially dominate with this sort of tactic.......perhaps Liverpool with Carroll central and Suarez, Bellamy(Kuyt) running off him. Swansea propably with Graham/Sinclair plus maybe Dyer or Routledge. Also you would have Gylfi Sigurdsson then who could really thrive in a 3 man midfield. Wigan with Di Santo, Maloney, Rodallega, Moses, could be fun.

Lots of possibilites!

Yeah, plenty of possibilities. Ill trial it after ive eaten and let you know

What "philosophy" and "strategy" are you/going to use?

Iv just finished my second season in the championship with Sheff utd and have now been inspired to try out a 433

I think moving a middle MC to DMC and make him DLP on support (against weaker teams) or Anchor man (against better teams) would provide much more defensive stability without losing much offensively. Just a suggestion.

Also, I've been toying with extreme width and found it can be fatal defense-wise because defenders leave huge gaps between them. It's too bad you can't set your forwards to play extremely wide, while keeping your defensive line relatively narrow.

Anyway, keep it up, it's an interesting read.

I think moving a middle MC to DMC and make him DLP on support (against weaker teams) or Anchor man (against better teams) would provide much more defensive stability without losing much offensively. Just a suggestion.

Also, I've been toying with extreme width and found it can be fatal defense-wise because defenders leave huge gaps between them. It's too bad you can't set your forwards to play extremely wide, while keeping your defensive line relatively narrow.

Anyway, keep it up, it's an interesting read.

I tried having the DMC instead of the MCc for a bit and yes, it did make things a little tighter defensively but it also drew the other two midfielders much more central which I didn´t like. So I prefer the 3 man midfield. It´s more of a "unit" and it pushes play wider.

Extreme width AND deep d-line leaves alot of space for the opposition so I think that high d-line can be helpful and you need to be smart with closing down instructions as well. Also I use tight marking on most of my defs and mids which seems to really help. I used to have problems with midfielders running into the space between my defenders but having my midfielders mark tightly has greatly reduced this.

I set my match prep to attacking movement (usually i just leave it on teamwork...) last night and that seemed to really get the best out this tactic.

Going to try it tonight, didnt get time last night. Newcastle have the perfect team for it as well with Arfa,Cisse,Ba partnership up top. Im going to do that, how you finding it with Newcastle?

I did well, I got a CL position but I played with the central striker withdrawn to AMC (4-3-1-2) but the rest of the roles and philosophy were as mention but after 1 season had restarted because I got a few things wrong and wanted to try a more Bielsa with possession system that I had (I might post it up when I complete the season).

However, back to a 4-3-3 with Newcastle I did notice a few things that might help:

1) I could only play Cisse as a Poacher. He does badly with any other role. This may not be a problem for some but when you need a player to give more than what the Poacher role provides then he is a bit of a liability. Not a bad liability because he will be your top goal scorer but as you see below some tactical options are removed. However, by January a team will be bidding for him, my mistake was I didn't sell him.

2) Have a backup formation with cover for the wings, like a 4-1-2-3. I notice when watching the ME that later in the season the AI will start attacking your full backs. I lost a couple of games until I realised what was happening. It must be using the "exploit the flanks shout" so when you notice it happening switch formation. This is easily done by moving Ba to AML and Arfa to AMR but that left Cisse, with the Poacher role in the center (I really need a DLF)

3) Sometimes the 3 in midfield lost the possession battle. I think it was due to the extra striker and in that situation I bit the bullet and changed to counter attack strategy and dropped the d-line. I really hated doing this but I found it a limitation with the tactics against some teams.

4) Try and get Vuckic improving as quickly as possible. Play him at the beginning of the season in the Ben Arfa role and for the 3 strikers system he could work even better because he doesnt need to learn the role. Get suitable role model

I did well, I got a CL position but I played with the central striker withdrawn to AMC (4-3-1-2) but the rest of the roles and philosophy were as mention but after 1 season had restarted because I got a few things wrong and wanted to try a more Bielsa with possession system that I had (I might post it up when I complete the season).

However, back to a 4-3-3 with Newcastle I did notice a few things that might help:

1) I could only play Cisse as a Poacher. He does badly with any other role. This may not be a problem for some but when you need a player to give more than what the Poacher role provides then he is a bit of a liability. Not a bad liability because he will be your top goal scorer but as you see below some tactical options are removed. However, by January a team will be bidding for him, my mistake was I didn't sell him.

2) Have a backup formation with cover for the wings, like a 4-1-2-3. I notice when watching the ME that later in the season the AI will start attacking your full backs. I lost a couple of games until I realised what was happening. It must be using the "exploit the flanks shout" so when you notice it happening switch formation. This is easily done by moving Ba to AML and Arfa to AMR but that left Cisse, with the Poacher role in the center (I really need a DLF)

3) Sometimes the 3 in midfield lost the possession battle. I think it was due to the extra striker and in that situation I bit the bullet and changed to counter attack strategy and dropped the d-line. I really hated doing this but I found it a limitation with the tactics against some teams.

4) Try and get Vuckic improving as quickly as possible. Play him at the beginning of the season in the Ben Arfa role and for the 3 strikers system he could work even better because he doesnt need to learn the role. Get suitable role model

Just a brief update. I trialed a system with Chelsea last night, only played a game against reserves (won 4-0) and away to Vitesse (Won1-0) and there were a few things I noticed:

- As mentioned above there are big gaps between defenders due to the extra wide setting, may tweak that a little to bring them closer together

- The three striker role worked brilliantly, especilly when I play Mata in the central role as a DLF. Was an absoloute beast, Drogba also did well here but I had him set up as a target man

- Midfielders spread out nicely, although im still playing with roles and marking instructions so that they trackk better, maybe the tight marking mentioned above is something worth looking at

- With full backs on defend duty even though there are big gaps defensively it seems strong, going to try making Cole a little more attacking to try and exploit the flank a little more

Ill upload some proper screenshots when I get time a little later on

I really don´t have a huge problem with space inbetween defenders being exploited. This may be down to fine tuning closing down and marking. It may also be just my current players, I go for quick defenders mostly which probably helps alot with regards to this...

Since my players familiarity with the tactic became good I have not conceded alot. Mostly I concede from set-pieces, long shots and "individual mistakes".

Seems to me you guys are on to promising starts with this. Look forward to further developments.

Have a good weekend!

I really don´t have a huge problem with space inbetween defenders being exploited. This may be down to fine tuning closing down and marking. It may also be just my current players, I go for quick defenders mostly which probably helps alot with regards to this...

Since my players familiarity with the tactic became good I have not conceded alot. Mostly I concede from set-pieces, long shots and "individual mistakes".

Seems to me you guys are on to promising starts with this. Look forward to further developments.

Have a good weekend!

Im going to continue to tweak this weekend, will upload some screenshots when im 100% happy with it, untill then Ill just keep theroising.

Well with Chelsea if I dont play John Terry ive got Cahill Luiz who are both pretty quick, Ashley Cole has still got a fair amount of pace just need to find a RB who is quick, really struggling to think of one. Besides from that Im very happy with how the team is looking.

Yeah you enjoy your weekend too mate

Very interesting read I just stumbled on here, I've been playing a 4123 for about a season now with my (top)team now.

I think dropping the MCc to a DMC has several benefits:

1) It frees the Full backs to go forward and create some extra width, by hugging touchlines

2) It creates a good outlet for DC's in build up play

3) I find it to be a little more stable than the flat 3 in defensive play

If you find your MCc's to be to narrow, try having them on Move In To Channels.

The DM, is a simple player, sweeping behind the midfielders and laying off short passes to fullbacks and MC's.

I have the flat front 3 in the following way; causing mayhem;

The STC-L/R's as the 'highest' players, pushing the defenders as far back as possible

The SRC-c as the link up player, dropping deep, and laying on through balls to the wider forwards, or changing play.

Of course, in line with this thread, I play very wide, with cut inside on the front wide players.

Oh, one more (important) thing; I think it is very important to Man Mark the opponent FB's with your wide strikers.

Most of you seem to play with a DLF as the central striker and some of you use two BWM in midfield. My approach is quite differen as stated above and works really well...

I started developing my tactic in the middle of a season, I was low-mid table at the time but managed to finish third and also won the EURO cup. I´m halfway through my secon season with this tac and am top of the league, ten points clear and won my Champ.league group quite easily. I have scored the most goals and conceded the fewes goals of all the teams in the league. So doing really well. I´ll try to post screenshots later if anyone is interested.

Most of you seem to play with a DLF as the central striker and some of you use two BWM in midfield. My approach is quite differen as stated above and works really well...

I started developing my tactic in the middle of a season, I was low-mid table at the time but managed to finish third and also won the EURO cup. I´m halfway through my secon season with this tac and am top of the league, ten points clear and won my Champ.league group quite easily. I have scored the most goals and conceded the fewes goals of all the teams in the league. So doing really well. I´ll try to post screenshots later if anyone is interested.

Id definately be interested in seeing it

Me too I'm currently in the "planning" phase of converting my assym 451/433 into something like what is being discussed in this thread.....

Of course as soon as I go trying to show off on the internet I have a little dip in form.....hahaha :-) Nothing major, still top of the league and going strong in Europe/FA Cup but not quite as smooth sailing as before. Even so this is still by far my best ever effort in the tactic making department. I´m looking forward to getting in some FM time soon to finish this season....hopefully I´ll grab a trophy.....or two!

I´ve never posted screenshots before (how hard can it be?) but will try to get something up this evening.

Yes, I know the feeling

Of course as soon as I go trying to show off on the internet I have a little dip in form.....hahaha :-) Nothing major, still top of the league and going strong in Europe/FA Cup but not quite as smooth sailing as before. Even so this is still by far my best ever effort in the tactic making department. I´m looking forward to getting in some FM time soon to finish this season....hopefully I´ll grab a trophy.....or two!

I´ve never posted screenshots before (how hard can it be?) but will try to get something up this evening.

Not difficult at all to do screenshots if you need any help drop me a PM mate

Haven't read all of the posts very carefully so maybe I'm late to the party, but have you considered asymmetrical role/duty assignments for the strikers?

I played around a bit with a 4-3-3 the other day, mostly cause I though of one at work, but I ended up abandoning it since my current tactics are just too good (perfect for my team). Anyways, what I did was to have the STl as trequartista, the STc as DLF/A and the STr as an advanced forward. This allows the two wide strikers to move around and provide wide options on occation. More importantly, the trequartista will drift wide and deep to get the ball and turn towards the defense. At the same time the DLF drops deep to provide an easy passing option (while hopefully attract attention from a centre back), and the AF moves into the gap created by the DLF.

I'm cautious, usually, so I preffer to have two holding midfielders (A/D or DLP/D + DLP/S) and one more attacking midfielder (probably CM/S). In this setup, I'd probably have my CMl as the more attacking player, so that he can move into channels created when the trequartista drops deep. Possibly though, this could cause them to "run into eachother" too much, so maybe it's better to have the MCr as CM/S. Not sure.

Didn't play that many games like this, so perhaps it needs some more tweaking, but hopefully you get the idea. It produced some pretty nice attacks, and a lot of interesting movement I must say.

Haven't read all of the posts very carefully so maybe I'm late to the party, but have you considered asymmetrical role/duty assignments for the strikers?

I played around a bit with a 4-3-3 the other day, mostly cause I though of one at work, but I ended up abandoning it since my current tactics are just too good (perfect for my team). Anyways, what I did was to have the STl as trequartista, the STc as DLF/A and the STr as an advanced forward. This allows the two wide strikers to move around and provide wide options on occation. More importantly, the trequartista will drift wide and deep to get the ball and turn towards the defense. At the same time the DLF drops deep to provide an easy passing option (while hopefully attract attention from a centre back), and the AF moves into the gap created by the DLF.

I'm cautious, usually, so I preffer to have two holding midfielders (A/D or DLP/D + DLP/S) and one more attacking midfielder (probably CM/S). In this setup, I'd probably have my CMl as the more attacking player, so that he can move into channels created when the trequartista drops deep. Possibly though, this could cause them to "run into eachother" too much, so maybe it's better to have the MCr as CM/S. Not sure.

Didn't play that many games like this, so perhaps it needs some more tweaking, but hopefully you get the idea. It produced some pretty nice attacks, and a lot of interesting movement I must say.

Yes, I have indeed considered assymmetrical settings for the strikers. I think with a little tinkering something like what you descriped could work.....although I believe, given my recent experience with this tactic, I would approach it differently.

I now definately prefer the "classic" tactic system as I simply get better results with it currently (wich only means that I am not very good with translating my ideas through the TC, not that classic is better or anything like that...I am certain both approaches can, and do, work).

Currently though my strikers are all quite similar players, pacy, dribbly types because they seem to work the best for me. Therefore currently there is no need for individualized/assymmetrical instruction for them. I also prefer them to play the same role on either side of my STc wich is my main goalscoerer, but thats obviously just personal preference.

Up until recently I used assymmatrical instructions on my fullbacks, as they were quite different players but recently I signed a great left-back and now there instructions are identical.

I prefer one midfielder (MCc) to play a very defensive holding role and the other two are what I like to call "workhorses". They do pretty much everyting, attack and defend.

I just finished my best ever FM season, thanks to this tactic mostly. I won the Premier League, Champions League, FA Cup and European Super Cup with Crystal Palace in the 2016-2017 season. I only lost 5 games during the entire season, 4 in the league and one in the League Cup. Scored the most goals and conceded the fewest in the league. So overall a great season and by far my most succesfull ever. Conclusion: The "flat" 4-3-3 can be a tremendous tactic!

PS. Would love to show you my tactic but MS Paint seems to crash my computer when I paste screenshots in to it. Is there another program I could use?

Alt+F9 takes the game screenshot, which you can find in documents-sports interactive-Fm12-screenshots

I would really like to see your tactic Orri

Alt+F9 takes the game screenshot, which you can find in documents-sports interactive-Fm12-screenshots

Thanks man!

This is the final league table:

Here is my overview and team instructions:

Everyone is on individual instructions as well though....

Orri - What players have you brought into your palace team?

And well done mate what a great season.

Thanks Orri. You have your sides ST's with cut inside? And how many goals did your front three score?

Yes. my side ST´s cut inside and so do my fullbacks.

Clayts: Thanks. The only original Palace players I have are Zaha and Clyne. My STc scored 43 goals in 48 games. I rotate my strikers quite a bit but 3 additional players had 15-20 goals. I also have Gylfi Sigurdsson in midfield and he chipped in with 24 in 43 games. Penaltys, freekicks and long shots are his expertise.

Here is the squad:

Can you post player instructions for the back four?

Can you post player instructions for the back four?

Sure.

Fullbacks:

CB:

I don't understand how come you don't get raped down the flanks by teams with world class wingers. It's a problem I had when using a narrow 41212. The fullbacks were always exposed, although with almost the same instructions you have them on, and they were really vulnerable part of the team.

I don't understand how come you don't get raped down the flanks by teams with world class wingers. It's a problem I had when using a narrow 41212. The fullbacks were always exposed, although with almost the same instructions you have them on, and they were really vulnerable part of the team.

The flanks can be a bit vulnerable but I am not getting raped...at all. The MCl/r do help the fullbacks out defending the flanks probably because I play with extreme width. As you see the formation is narrow but the instructions are to play very wide.

I also have very good fullbacks now, before I signed them I did have my FB´s play more cautiosly.

I suggest you try this. It seems to work for me!

Orri can you upload some pkm's please?

How would one go about uploading pkm´s? I apologies for my noobness.

Here are the rest of the individual instructions (the MCr/l and FCr/l are the same):