Those Games you Should Win...

... but just don't.

Hey. I originally made this thread in General Discussion, so that whenever people complain that they've just got beat in a game they should have won, I can reference them to it, like so. Anyway, SCIAG recommended I repost it in here. I've made a couple of changes to it, and altered which images are included, so consider this version 2.

If anyone feels I'm repeating advice that has already been given, I am sorry. I don't often use T&TD, so I don't know what has already been said.

We all know the situation. We're the big team going up against the little insignificant club, yet your players contrive to throw away three easy points. It could be an all round bad performance that sees you beaten 2 or maybe 3-0. It might just be a bad day for your strikers, and you're undone by a sucker punch in the last minute.

Inevitably, some people become convinced that the game is fixed, that it would be impossible for them to win this seemingly easy fixture. However, when you hop online to warn the world of this conspiracy, you don't get the response you were looking for. Instead, you're instantly jumped upon, flamed, and told to grow up. It's almost a guarantee that those unavoidable three little words will crop up; "It's your tactics". But that surely can't be right! You beat Arsenal last weekend, and now you've just conceded twice in the last minute against Port Vale to throw away your chances of the FA Cup. There must be something more to this than just tactics!

Well, yes. But it is all about your management. I don't know how the coding of the game works. I probably don't play as in-depth as some FM players. I let my assistant take control of opposition instructions. I never watch my reserves or U-18's. However, I do seem to have developed a knack of seeing out games against lesser opposition.

On FM10, I struggled to overcome smaller teams with an all-powerful squad. Whenever I was up against a little team, complacency would set in, and we'd drop points. However, some players didn't seem phased about playing the littler clubs. They thrived against any opponent. Nowhere was this more evident than with a little Italian newgen by the name of Manuel Patti. Despite being a talented youngster, he never really developed into the world-beater I had hoped he could be. Despite this, he always seemed to pick up higher ratings than any other midfielder, and so he stayed with me long into his 30s. After much consideration as to what it was that set him apart from the line of potential successors that he beat off, I picked out a few key attributes.

Fast forward to FM11, and I have tried to find players who fit into this style, and some who are even better. Gone are the days where my key attributes to focus on are merely technical and physical, there is much to be gained from a player who is mentally ready. A high determination will ensure that you have a player who wants to win every game. A high workrate will ensure that they don't become careless and complacent as the game wears on, while high concentration will be particularly useful for your defence. High teamwork should see your players fighting for each other to win the game. This is the same reason why having teammates who list each other as favoured personnel works (FM hints really are helpful!) Youngsters and fringe players who know they must put in a good performance to earn a starting spot shouldn't be ignored. Most importantly, players who list your team as a favoured club are a must. Not only do they play well, they almost never want to leave, and will generally play long into their 30's. Someone playing because they want your club to do well is worth 10 money-grabbing mercenaries.

Each situation is unique, but in all of the screenshots I use here, I am managing Middlesbrough. I am a top-half Premier League side, and in general, my opponents will be relegation battlers who I should be beating. Sometimes it clicks, and you win 3-0. You don't need help when that happens, but when it seems a potential upset is on the cards, I hope this advice helps you.

The longer a game goes on with nobody scoring, the more likely it is that your opponents will nick a late goal against you. You can't just sit watching this happen, you must pro-actively look to undo your opponents. The pressure is on the bigger side to produce that spark of magic that will be the difference. If you're playing control, play attacking. Push higher up. Work the ball into the box. Pump it into the box. Get the ball forward. Take more risks. Overload! These are the kinds of things you should be looking to do. If I feel confident I should be winning, I'll switch it to attacking in the first half. If they're closer in the league, I'll leave it until the hour mark. Remember, the longer it is level, the more confidence your opponents will gain. Do not give them hope.

Have players who want the club to do well. Incredibly, all 5 of my goalscorers list Middlesbrough as a favoured club (even Onuoha!), and their determination to see Middlesbrough do well is a key attribute to why they will never give up on a game. If you're left wondering why your squad full of Brazillian, French, Italian and Spanish imports earning hundreds of thousands of pounds a week aren't winning on a drizzley afternoon in Middlesbrough, you clearly haven't given it enough thought. My squad has 8 players from the Middlesbrough academy, and a further 11 who have trained in England. There are only three foreigners. They understand the game, and most support Middlesbrough.

Sometimes, despite your best efforts, your players will become complacent. Some of them just won't care. It might be because it's the last game of the season, or it might be because you've raised them so high on a pedestal that they don't see how they can do wrong. I am constantly looking at my players motivation, and if players look complacent, I make a note to challenge them. Take them off if you need to, as early as you like. Put on someone with something to prove, someone who wants to make a point. Drop them for the next game, just remind them that they need to put in stronger performances. Don't congratulate them on scraping past the side bottom of the league 1-0, tell them you're disappointed. I've noticed on my game that my goalkeeper will often become complacent, but if I drop him for two or three matches, then on his return, he will often keep a run of clean sheets.

So, despite your warning against complacency, your players have become just that. Here, I switched to a more defensive formation at 2-1, but to no avail. However, you must always respond to your opponents actions. Clearly, I didn't close the door at 2-0, and allowed them into it. Against incessant attacks, we let them back in. Predict what they will do next! I guessed that having been 2-0 down with 5 minutes to go, Bolton would probably be happy to sit back and take an unfancied point. I threw absolutely everything I had at them for the remainder of the game, safe in the knowledge that if they got the ball, the first thing they were likely to do was hammer it towards my defence where we could launch another attack from. It paid dividends.

If you're defending that narrow lead, don't keep doing what you're doing. Your opponents will be throwing everything, so you need to respond by becoming more defensive. Play narrower. Hassle your opponents. Change it so that they're not able to just throw themselves at your goal. Make your team dynamic!

Sometimes, your strikers have a bad day. Deal with it. Throw more players forward. Create more chances. Someone will find a way through eventually.

While I know plenty of FM-er's here who do this already, be prepared to trust the kids. They often have more to prove, and will be motivated for the entire game. Obviously, if they're short on form and confidence, then you want to keep them out of the limelight, but if they're lighting up the reserve league, give them a chance. Of the four strikers at my club, three of them are under 21. My attacking midfielder has been playing in the first team since he was 17. My goalkeeper is 19, and starts every match looking motivated. The old adage might well be that "you'll win nothing with kids", but they'll certainly give it a go. Juan Diaz was 19 when I played this match, and the average age of that team was probably about 20.

Conversely, I will tend to bring on the experienced heads to shore up my defence at the end of a game. I'm fortunate enough that Owen Hargreaves lists Middlesbrough as his favoured club, and even at the ripe old age of 37, he is still able to come on and instantly control the midfield.

After the result, no matter what it is, remember that much of it is down to luck. It may go against you as important players go off injured, but may come back to help you as Paul Robinson scores a last minute own goal.

So, who can offer extra advice to this problem?

WOW - what a post

Its easy to miss certain points when picking formation and teams to suit your opponents, Basically in one post you have countered that.

Cracking post mate

Sometimes, especially at home against weak opponents using the "Wish Luck" team talk really sets my players on fire and makes them score loads of goals.

Great post.

From my experience if you're playing as a top side check your ass man's pre-match feedback before you start the game as he'll often let you know what players are looking over-confident so that you can usually sort them out by giving them the team talk "I expect a performance". Its usually quite effective for thos established forst team players who aren't motivated against weaker sides.

Nice post

From your experience, do you have any idea on any methods to get the players to list your club as your favourite club? It seems rather random and often happens in the first year when they joined the club, having high loyalty (hidden) helps. That is what I observe anyway.

Nice post tom. One of the things I like the most about FM is all the factors that go into making a team really successful. Tactics, players, man management, team talks all have to be done well if the player wants continued success.

Nice post:)

From your experience, do you have any idea on any methods to get the players to list your club as your favourite club? It seems rather random and often happens in the first year when they joined the club, having high loyalty (hidden) helps. That is what I observe anyway.

Unfortunately I don't know. The Italian lad on FM10 I signed as a 16 year old from Fiorentina. The two most notable ones on FM11 have been Hargreaves (for no apparent reason) and a regen RB who I signed from Arsenal. I always try to keep academy players though, they often will.

Inevitably, some people become convinced that the game is fixed, that it would be impossible for them to win this seemingly easy fixture. However, when you hop online to warn the world of this conspiracy, you don't get the response you were looking for. Instead, you're instantly jumped upon, flamed, and told to grow up. It's almost a guarantee that those unavoidable three little words will crop up; "It's your tactics". But that surely can't be right! You beat Arsenal last weekend, and now you've just conceded twice in the last minute against Port Vale to throw away your chances of the FA Cup. There must be something more to this than just tactics

Read this forum & post:

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/f109/this-game-is-sooooo-scripted-t52344/page2.html

Ganny insults people by saying they know nothing about programming and suggesting that all variables are mathematical etc.

Ganny, have you never heard of random number generation?

It's entirely possible for the game to have been written in such a way that random games from a range that fit certain mathematical criteria are "scripted" i.e. You lead the league, good run of form etc, and suddenly lose a home game to much lower opposition.

What's happened?

Hypothesis

The game's designers have decided that no team should win all games and quite right too. But us clever players work out how to get best players, tactics etc, so if they just left it to straightforward maths, we would always win.

What they do is create some random generator, based on certain conditions within the game, to decide that certain games will be heavily weighed against you. In these random games, the mathematical formulae are modified in favour of the lesser team and are modified by a very large factor, to make the outcome almost certain.

Note, I said "almost" certain.

I too have replayed some of these so called "scripted" games, maybe up to 20 times before eventually turning around the result.

So, based on my many years of playing, the evidence suggests very strongly to me, that my hypothesis is correct, in that the game programmers have chosen this method or something very similar, to ensure that we don't always win when we play as Barcelona and have all the best of everything.

I note some people who say they played a game and lost and then replayed and got a different result. That can happen a lot and these aren't the games being discussed here. There will always be some variability in the game and a small change at one point can have a big effect further down the line. That's chaos theory, which is also maths.

"Scripting", is it a good thing or a bad thing?

I'd like to see realism achieved in a different way to how the game designers have implemented it, but at the end of the day you can't win every game and if they can't find a better way, then I also will live with the frustration of "scripted" games.

This is still the game I most like to play and play most often

As with most people on FM, I am constantly learning. FM11 has brought just a few more things to my attention. (no screenshots this time though)

I've already said that the kids can do a job when they're fighting to prove something, but that isn't to underestimate the old. At a guess, the average of the most people's squads on FM is in the low 20's because, hell, we all love to develop our own wonderkids. On top of that, we love to fill our squad with wonderkids, and constantly build for the future. The problem with this is that it leaves no space for the experienced. For a real life example, take a look at Man Utd - van der Saar, Scholes, Giggs and Neville are hardly spring chickens. At my beloved Middlesbrough, I'm delighted to see the youngsters come through, but it's when the experienced heads of Robson, Smith, McManus and McDonald have performed that we've looked most impressive. FM reflects this. Don't forsake the oldies. Sure, they might not be as unpredictable, dynamic, or exciting, but they're far more likely to be dependable. My biggest saviours last season? The 36 year old centre half and a 28 year old winger. When you're in those games where you feel it isn't going right, the mental edge of experience can be worth far more than pure physicals.

Sort your set-pieces out. Self-explanatory really. Last season, I scored roughly 15% of my goals from corners. I didn't miss a single penalty. I saw 3 free kicks belted into the back of the net. Take the time to understand them, to set them up right, and take advantage. Your strikers don't need to be the only supply of goals.

Sometimes, especially at home against weak opponents using the "Wish Luck" team talk really sets my players on fire and makes them score loads of goals.

Oddly, I've never had much luck with that. It tends to spread complacency, nervousness and a lack of interest across the team. :s