small or medium database size?

i play with a small database because i dont have the best proccesser (intel celeron dual core) and 3gb hdd

i still think the game is good still with a small database

my question is there much difference between medium or small databases and is the game worth playing in a small database?

Unfortunately in FM12 its looking pretty much essential to start with a small DB if you plan on playing a long term game.. The player database increases every season on FM12, roughly by 1,000 players per loaded league, and increases significantly more if you use the add leagues feature... bugs that SI are aware of. So for long term playabilty, a small DB, for sub-10 season games, large or medium should be ok.

ok thanks mate

so it doesn't matter if you choose small database it will work faster anyway?

Unfortunately in FM12 its looking pretty much essential to start with a small DB if you plan on playing a long term game.. The player database increases every season on FM12, roughly by 1,000 players per loaded league, and increases significantly more if you use the add leagues feature... bugs that SI are aware of. So for long term playabilty, a small DB, for sub-10 season games, large or medium should be ok.

What do you mean the DB increases by 1000 players per season per league? Do you mean that every season, in each league there are 1000 newgens popping up? You make it sound like the growth is unstable, but I don't understand how. For each newgen coming into the game, there is an old player retiring, roughly, right? So the number of players in the DB should stay the same. What am I missing here?

yeah i dont get i thought fm 12 was toget better every version not get worse feels like fm are not doin ere job orrectly other games like fifa or other type games dont have hese bugs

i feel le i want arefund

its my fault buy the game with his small laptop i think

What do you mean the DB increases by 1000 players per season per league? Do you mean that every season, in each league there are 1000 newgens popping up? You make it sound like the growth is unstable, but I don't understand how. For each newgen coming into the game, there is an old player retiring, roughly, right? So the number of players in the DB should stay the same. What am I missing here?

Sorry I meant roughly 1000 players per nation loaded, not league. And yes I believe the growth is unstable, or at least the ratio between retirements and newgen creation is broken.

I've ran quite a few tests and they all show the same growth.

Here's a typical example:

In this test I had 5 nations loaded (England, Spain, Italy, Germany, Holland)

Season 2011 - 35,159 Players, 5,443 Staff

Season 2012 - 38,544 Players, 10,862 Staff

Season 2013 - 44,834 Players, 14,958 Staff

Season 2014 - 49,904 Players, 16,650 Staff

Season 2015 - 55,498 Players, 17,187 Staff

This data shows 20,300 extra players entered the game in the first 5 seasons despite me not using the add/remove leagues feature at all during this period, and the total number of people (staff+players) increased by 32,000. At that rate of increase its little wonder why people are complaining of massive game slow down after just 10 seasons. I'm sure on FM11 that if I started with 20,000 players in 2011 I'd have roughly 20,000 players in 2020 (I'll need to check that though).

But worse still, if you add leagues using the add-remove feature that rate of increase goes through the roof. Going by my own experience and on what others are reporting too; starting with a small DB of 20,000 in 2011 may well see your DB become saturated with over 200,000 players by 2020, even if you only add a releatively few leagues. Thats why I'm recommending the OP to start with a small DB if he wants a long term stable game.

There's an extensive post on the player increase problems here:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/304195-The-Add-Remove-leagues-problem...

Here's a typical example:

In this test I had 5 nations loaded (England, Spain, Italy, Germany, Holland)

Season 2011 - 35,159 Players, 5,443 Staff

Season 2012 - 38,544 Players, 10,862 Staff

Season 2013 - 44,834 Players, 14,958 Staff

Season 2014 - 49,904 Players, 16,650 Staff

Season 2015 - 55,498 Players, 17,187 Staff

This data shows 20,300 extra players entered the game in the first 5 seasons despite me not using the add/remove leagues feature at all during this period, and the total number of people (staff+players) increased by 32,000.

Adding leagues is a seperate subject. But what you are showing here maybe happens because in the first few seasons not enough players from the original DB retire, and every season a big number of newgens enter the game. But if you think about it, at some point these players all will have to retire. After that point on, the total number of players in DB will converge to a certain number, and it won't increase any more. So yes, it is an issue probably, but not a massive one, unless you add new leagues down the road.

So, with you above example, maybe in season 2020 you will have only 60,000 players in the DB, and not 55,000+5,000+5,000+5,000....

From what I see, the number of newgens being created in every team is still fine. I don't get 30 newgens from youth intake every year. It is 10-12 every year, and it was the same in perivous versions. So the problem has to be with old players and unused players not retiring fast enough. I'm just guessing.

I find it embarrassing that this issue isn’t sorted out yet. I find it even more embarrassing that it seems that this issue isn’t going to be sorted out before FM2013 will be released.

I've only ever used large DB

Adding leagues is a seperate subject. But what you are showing here maybe happens because in the first few seasons not enough players from the original DB retire, and every season a big number of newgens enter the game. But if you think about it, at some point these players all will have to retire. After that point on, the total number of players in DB will converge to a certain number, and it won't increase any more. So yes, it is an issue probably, but not a massive one, unless you add new leagues down the road.

So, with you above example, maybe in season 2020 you will have only 60,000 players in the DB, and not 55,000+5,000+5,000+5,000....

From what I see, the number of newgens being created in every team is still fine. I don't get 30 newgens from youth intake every year. It is 10-12 every year, and it was the same in perivous versions. So the problem has to be with old players and unused players not retiring fast enough. I'm just guessing.

Thats what I'm hoping will happen, i.e. a levelling off where the amount of retirments leaving the gameworld eventually matches the amount of newgens entering the gameworld instead of a constant increase like what is shown in those first 5 seasons. The test would have to go on for longer to see if that occurs, but unfortunately even with just a modest amount of leagues loaded at game setup, my games often become unplayable around 2020 so I haven't been able to test that far into the future to see if that levelling off occurs.

Another way to see if FM12 has an issue with the newgen : retirement ratio is to see if it that rate of increase happens on a similarly set up FM11 save.

Also I noticed a lot of newgens start appearing in teams that aren't even loaded into my initial game set up. For example, if you look at some of the posts in that other thread, people are saying obscure teams from africa and asia, and minor european nations (all non-loaded) that all start with 'virtual greys' begin filling up with real players, complete with histories and constantly updated stats.

This is a post I made in a previous thread that explains it better...

Here's an example of what I mean.

I picked a club at random.

This is a club from San Marino (a nation not in my starting db, or added later).

They should be made up of virtual "grey" players that have very little impact on processing times.

But as you can see, they are proper players whose stats, history, and attributes, are "real" and constantly being updated week after week...

And this is this clubs sole contribution to my gameworld this season....

They played 2 games.

Yet for the rest of this season all their players stats etc will be constantly updated with make-believe statistics.

That team (along with 1000's of others not in loaded leagues in my game) should be full of grey players that don't take up processing time by having their stats constantly updated week after week.

Wether or not that is caused by the add-remove feature generating players for clubs it wasn't asked to do, or happens independent of using that feature, it needs to be tested further.

I really hope there's a levelling off and the newgen : retirement ratio is working properly in FM12 otherwise anyone who wants to play long term save may as well go back to FM11. I've yet to get beyond 2020 on any of my games before it slows down to a crawl or the dreaded application error crashes make it unplayable, though that was with using the add leagues feature before I knew better. I've currently got one final attempt at a new save going where I won't use that feature at all, so far the player count is increasing year by year, but hopefully it'll level off before it exceeds 150K since thats when the problems usually occur on mine. If it doesn't and SI aren't forthcoming with a patch, FM12 is a complete write-off for me since I only want to play long-term games.

I find it embarrassing that this issue isn’t sorted out yet. I find it even more embarrassing that it seems that this issue isn’t going to be sorted out before FM2013 will be released.

Totally agree. And SI's silence on the matter suggests its being swept under the carpet now. How can they come out and tell the world the biggest selling point of FM12 is broken and will ruin your save if used. Not going to happen.

Sorry I meant roughly 1000 players per nation loaded, not league. And yes I believe the growth is unstable, or at least the ratio between retirements and newgen creation is broken.

I've not had a problem using the Large database size and 30 odd leagues from 13 nations. 15 years into a game the number of non players has increased massively from 21k to 32k, but the number of players has been fairly stable at 64k-65k. I did remove the Blue Square leagues in about 2020 which should of removed a few players but by your reckoning I should have roughly 13 x 15 x 1000 = 195000 extra players.

When did you start your game? Before or after 12.1? There are some people like youself that don't seem to have a problem, some of them started their games before FM was patched. And did you add leagues at all? If you didn't add leagues then thats encouraging since it shows it could level off eventually on its own. It could also be a league or nation specific issue, i.e. some leagues loaded will cause this problem whereas others don't. Its SI's job to determine that, and to their credit they have at least acknowledged there's a problem with the newgen increases and its being looked at, but its been very quiet from them on this for weeks now.

I've only played on 12.2, I didn't buy the game this year until February or March. The game has massively slowed down though, but I suspect that is at least partly due to the number of scout reports as I have 18 scouts.