Attributes and their effect on gameplay

For long time we have assumed that the game is pretty much close to real football, like good striker need composure, finishing, first touch, off the ball etc. But now since we came across the goalkeepers training bug, we got info that i personally think is a problem.

Like I said in my post, the theories of how much importance each attribute should have in the ME are not really a topic for this thread as it is whole other discussion. What Neil was referring to was the mathematical weightings of the attributes as on that list reflexes and handling are considered to have a higher weight than positioning.

I said it isn't 'that' important, I didn't say it wasn't important at all. There's a number of stats which add up to be important for a goalkeeper, it is one of many. It's not as 'important' as reflexes or handling but yeah it does make a difference. Just not as big a difference as some people in this thread seem to be thinking.

We're looking into this as said. As mantralux said, IN-GAME positioning isn't that important an attribute for goalkeepers in the Match Engine. Despite saying that, it is still something we're looking at getting sorted. Cheers.

So positioning isn't that important for goalkeepers, and more important stats are like reflexes and handling. For me positioning is an that important skill for goalkeepers, so i made assumption that positioning irl important --> in game it's important, since this is aiming to be football simulator.

If you think about it positioning is the core of the every good goalkeeper. If you are positioned poorly, no matter how good your aerial ability, reflexes or handling is, you are not going to save that good shot. But with good position you can save that impossible shot with little effort. I could even say that without good positioning your are not going to play professional football.

So does SI really think that positioning isn't THAT important or what is behind this? Also kept this thread title more open, so here you can discuss generally attributes and their affects, since it's not crystal clear.

The more attributes that are needed to be good in a particular position, the less important they become and the more important CA becomes.

The combination of attributes has always been more important than individual attributes.

The combination of attributes has always been more important than individual attributes.

Even more so ever since the number of attributes increased.

The combination of attributes has always been more important than individual attributes.

Yes, but like Brock said "ex. Handling and reflexes are more important than positioning" <-- this makes me wander why does SI thinks these attributes are more important than positioning, as far as we know there could be more. When my personal opinion is that Positioning should be more important

I also question the importance of attributes. For example jumping for an outfield player doesn't mean how good the player is at jumping. It is basically how high the player can reach in the air based on their height. It makes you wonder what attributes actually mean anything at all. For example I could be after a new centre back and there are two candidates of similar ability. However one is slightly quicker than the other but has poorer concentration. Based on this I would buy the slower defender with better concentration, however the concentration stat may mean nothing at all so I have chosen the wrong player.

Can we please get some clarification on what exactly certain attributes do, because I feel as though I'm wasting my time even looking at attributes and may as well just take a scouts advice on star ratings and ignore attributes.

Yes, but like Brock said "ex. Handling and reflexes are more important than positioning" <-- this makes me wander why does SI thinks these attributes are more important than positioning, as far as we know there could be more. When my personal opinion is that Positioning should be more important

It would also depend on the type of goalkeeper. A goalkeeper with outstanding positional sense would be less likely to need to have razor-sharp reflexes, especially if the team's defensive gameplan results in most shots coming from wide positions where the goalkeeper can take advantage of almost never being beaten at his near post. On the other hand, a goalkeeper with a horrible set of centre-backs in front of him will likely need sharp reflexes as they will go on strike fairly often and the goalkeeper has to cover the whole goal, so good positioning isn't going to help much.

The more attributes that are needed to be good in a particular position' date=' the less important they become and the more important CA becomes.[/quote']

Not necessarily, example if a midfielder needs let's say three stats, they weight in percentages could be 33-33-33, 40-40-20, or 60-30-10

The more attributes that are needed to be good in a particular position' date=' the less important they become and the more important CA becomes.[/quote']

The best way of looking at it to be honest.

The more attributes that are needed to be good in a particular position' date=' the less important they become and the more important CA becomes.[/quote']

So that actual CA figure has a baring effect on in-game performance? Match performance is not just determined by attribute figures/morale/happiness?

It would also depend on the type of goalkeeper. A goalkeeper with outstanding positional sense would be less likely to need to have razor-sharp reflexes, especially if the team's defensive gameplan results in most shots coming from wide positions where the goalkeeper can take advantage of almost never being beaten at his near post. On the other hand, a goalkeeper with a horrible set of centre-backs in front of him will likely need sharp reflexes as they will go on strike fairly often and the goalkeeper has to cover the whole goal, so good positioning isn't going to help much.

Yes, i agree that positioning and it's effect varies upon a situation. But no matter of the situation i still thinks position is an vital skill. If the shot comes close range you have less time to react and because of that your current position matters more.

Ideally, developers would post a detailed description of the importance of attributes and their impact on gameplay.

Ideally, developers would post a detailed description of the importance of attributes and their impact on gameplay.

Yes we could use some clarification on the attributes, since we really can't use common sense. Example jumping doesn't do anything for goalkeepers. Altough too specific info about mathematical weights of the attributes aren't needed

If jumping does nothing for keepers, then why are CA points being wasted on such an attribute?

Again I use Pepe Reina as an example... 17 jumping... only 14 aerial ability. To be fair though, he made a bit of a mess in the air on Saturday against Norwich so 14 seems fair based on that. That's only one moment in one match though.

Obviously jumping is taken into consideration when considering his coach rating (4 stars), as coach rating is based on CA... yet jumping does nothing for him as a player and thus should not be considered when analysing and reporting on his ability... and so the 4 star coach rating isn't truly accurate.

How many other things aren't "that important" ? You are giving a game full obsolete trash! Liars!

If jumping does nothing for keepers, then why are CA points being wasted on such an attribute?

Again I use Pepe Reina as an example... 17 jumping... only 14 aerial ability. To be fair though, he made a bit of a mess in the air on Saturday against Norwich so 14 seems fair based on that. That's only one moment in one match though.

Obviously jumping is taken into consideration when considering his coach rating (4 stars), as coach rating is based on CA... yet jumping does nothing for him as a player and thus should not be considered when analysing and reporting on his ability... and so the 4 star coach rating isn't truly accurate.

Here's another thing you may not know - High Jumping does absolutely nothing for a goalkeeper Their 'jumping' comes under Aerial Ability...

Yes they say that the jumping comes under the aerial ability.

Yes they say that the jumping comes under the aerial ability.

I know they say this... my question is about CA being wasted and AI analysis of players not being accurate because they are basing them on attributes that aren't part of the player's ability as a goalkeeper, or as a player at all in fact... unless they are coming up for corners in the 90th minute. I guess this could be a poor explanation in disregarding this issue.

I know they say this... my question is about CA being wasted and AI analysis of players not being accurate because they are basing them on attributes that aren't part of the player's ability as a goalkeeper, or as a player at all in fact... unless they are coming up for corners in the 90th minute. I guess this could be a poor explanation in disregarding this issue.

Oh, well atleast everyone who reads this thread should know by now that high jumping doesn't do anything for goalkeepers. I think we just have to wait that dev's clarify this cloud of mystery.

I think we just have to wait that dev's clarify this cloud of mystery.

I wouldn't hold my breath...

In addition, I also wonder would it be advisable to have a goalkeeper's strength training set to 0, or 1, giving up more time for important areas like shot stopping, tactics, and handling? Given that jumping doesn't come into play, and that a goalkeepers work rate will NOT increase through strength training (according to Mantralux's FM2012 Training Masterclass), it seems that training a goalkeeper in strength wouldn't be all that advantageous. I mean, I'd much rather my keeper excelled in reflexes, one on ones, composure and concentration than in stamina, strength and natural fitness.