[11.2] Kadath's 4-2-3-1 deep. Solid defence, double with Sampdoria.

After being quite the lurker for some time now, I finally ended up with a tactic completely made from scratch by me, and I feel it might be worth sharing, as I had quite the season with it.

In 11.1 I was using an edited version of mAAckAttAck 4-4-2, with much more focus on the wingers, which gave me treble after treble; since 11.2, however, fullbacks work better (both for us AND the AI), and wingers overloading the far post with crosses aren't as effective. This forced me to try something different - very different compared to the style I usually like - and after noticing how Inter was overperforming with this formation I gave it a try. These are the tactic itself and its amazing results:

The match of the year, we were tied 1st at the time:

The tactic relies a lot on good teamwork, and it takes longer than what I was used to before really becoming fluid - but when it does, it becomes a defensive powerhouse (only 19 goals against with crappy defenders such as Gastaldello makes me wonder what a big team could manage to do). It doesn't really shine at scoring (well, I'm still best attack in the league anyway, so...), and especially in the first half of the season I won several times with close 1-0 results, which still makes me very happy.

Set pieces are the same I used in 11.1: 18 goals from corners points out they still work great.

As for specific instructions/players:

Match Prep: mid-high with focus on team gel until everything's fluid, then I leave it on very low and team gel. Once the teamwork is at its top, I switch to offensive movements focus, and indeed I noticed more goals being scored (which however is of course the result of various factors).

OI: I just let my Ass. Manager do them. Yeah, I'm lazy, but as long as it works...

Team Talks: follow the usual good guides found here, or your common sense, really. Only thing which might be really relevant to point out: after each match I have conversations with every player who played very well (8+) or very bad (5.9 -), praising or criticizing their performance. As I have the feeling end match individual team talks don't work as much as in FM10 I found this approach quite imperative to build up good relations with players and, in turn, raise their morale and confidence.

Shouts: no point in using 'em, as every bar is custom set/ticked in the tactic, and most of 'em won't have any effect at all.

No main playmaker or target man.

FBs: they need to be pretty pacey and able to give a decent support in attack. Even though their mentality isn't offensive - as you need cover - they have a lot to do. Note: the left one has shoot from distance set to "sometimes", as Ziegler is quite proficient at it: if your FB isn't as good, you should switch it back to rarely, as the right one is set. This, anyway, is the kind of fine tuning everyone should do for himself after downloading a tactic to make it best fit his players.

CBs: the left one should be your main header, he is the one who will score from corners and free kicks. As this kind of player is often rather slow and with less than brilliant technique, he is also the most defensive minded of the couple, as in the nike defense theory.

DMs: the right one should be your real defensive midfielder, strong and reliable, but still with good enough stats all around to keep the ball. the left one is a playmaker a la Andrea Pirlo, but good proficience in defensive stats too can't hurt.

AML/R: they are inside forwards, and as such they should be lined up on the field with reverse foot (left footed on right, right footed on left) to give their best when they cut inside. However, as they will have also some support roles, I strongly suggest to avoid one-and-only-one footed players, as they wouldn't be able to cross when they need to: Semioli was quite disappointing on the left for that reason, and I had much more success with Guberti (L10 R20) or Mannini (L15 (I believe) R20).

AMC: he seems to be the hardest player to give consistent good results. Having a support role he has to come back to take the ball, create occasions, shoot, dribble through the center and so on. Cassano was underwhelming, I found Henrique (bought with Cassano's transfer's money ^^) to be much better, but still it took him at least 10-15 matches before starting to consistently create assists, score goals and as such getting good ratings. Be patient. Maybe I should have been with Cassano, but who cares for that low little punk ;-P

FC: he is a complete forward, or, well, close to it as I have messed with every single instruction as I did for each role. He scores rather nicely (Pazzini 27 goals in the league) but also creates a lot (Pazzini 8 assists), so I believe a pure poacher wouldn't give his best in this tactic. But you could try. No need for pure target men, as there won't be so many crosses to the head.

That should be all. I was really struggling in 11.2 before using this tactic, and as such I hope it will be of help to some of you. Feedback is of course very welcome, and I'm pretty curious to see what this could achieve with a well managed top team.

Finally, the linky: DOWNLOAD

where is antonio cassano actually ? MILAN ?

btw , try this tactic in my 2nd season for JUVE .

Title should be 11.2 not 10.2? Will try this, looks good..

Whoops, typo! And editing it doesn't seem to stick... O_o guess only moderators can change a thread title? Oh well

As for Cassano, yup, his transfer to Milan (more or less for free) has just been officially confirmed. In my game, I sold him to Real for €20.000.000. Now, Garrone could learn a trick or two I would dare to say

Struggling with my team, and will give it a try.

How about pitch size ?

Kadatherion, surely this can be coverted to classic? As I prefer using Classic Tacics.... Also may I see you Player Instuctions for your Striker?

Shouldn't be hard at all, as just about any slider is custom ticked in the advanced setting, I guess the only thing left to guess by trial and error with a classic tactic version is the arrows for offensive movements. I myself never really felt totally comfortable with the old classic tactics, back then I almost always relied upon someone else's work as a base.

BTW, these are my striker settings:

As you can see, more or less a complete forward, more attacking in mentality (otherwise I noticed he would overlap too much with the AMC, just getting in the way), but still doing a bit of everything. With this setup I'm very happy with Pazzini: while he still scores a lot, he creates occasions, runs back or wide to take the ball or to find an opening (often dragging with him a CB actually opening a gap wich will be exploited by one of the two inside forwards or the AMC), and he also gives some help when you need cover, which I believe is absolutely necessary as there's quite a large gap in midfield with this formation: with a pure poacher who just sits in the box waiting for a through ball I believe the AMC by himself wouldn't be able to connect successfully with the two defensive midfielders.

However, for some reason, his match ratings aren't really over the top: 7.60 in the league after the first season, second best after Inter's Snejder; which isn't bad at all, but usually when you have a lone central striker and you win the league with such results, that player ends up around 8 or close to it. But I guess that is caused by how ratings in the game are (too much imho) linked to the number of goals scored: most of the aforementioned tactics have the not so realistic effect of getting 40+ goals from your striker, this one plays out in my opinion quite more realistically.

@yaşar

I use medium pitch lenght/width. I didn't really try how changing it would affect the performance: when I'm not sure about something I just begin with a middle road solution, and when it already works nicely I don't mess with it anymore :-P

Anyway, by the logic of the settings given, medium should be the most sensible size, though a narrow pitch could be a good solution too as there aren't real wingers: both ones cut inside. For that very reason a wider pitch shouldn't be of any help, actually the opposite. But, you know, this game - as good as it is at what it does - often defies logic ^^

Hello,

you set pieces are not added in the tac from the first post.......

Shouldn't be hard at all, as just about any slider is custom ticked in the advanced setting, I guess the only thing left to guess by trial and error with a classic tactic version is the arrows for offensive movements. I myself never really felt totally comfortable with the old classic tactics, back then I almost always relied upon someone else's work as a base.

BTW, these are my striker settings:

As you can see, more or less a complete forward, more attacking in mentality (otherwise I noticed he would overlap too much with the AMC, just getting in the way), but still doing a bit of everything. With this setup I'm very happy with Pazzini: while he still scores a lot, he creates occasions, runs back or wide to take the ball or to find an opening (often dragging with him a CB actually opening a gap wich will be exploited by one of the two inside forwards or the AMC), and he also gives some help when you need cover, which I believe is absolutely necessary as there's quite a large gap in midfield with this formation: with a pure poacher who just sits in the box waiting for a through ball I believe the AMC by himself wouldn't be able to connect successfully with the two defensive midfielders.

However, for some reason, his match ratings aren't really over the top: 7.60 in the league after the first season, second best after Inter's Snejder; which isn't bad at all, but usually when you have a lone central striker and you win the league with such results, that player ends up around 8 or close to it. But I guess that is caused by how ratings in the game are (too much imho) linked to the number of goals scored: most of the aforementioned tactics have the not so realistic effect of getting 40+ goals from your striker, this one plays out in my opinion quite more realistically.

Seems to me that you can use any type of stiker effectivly? As he not asked to get behind the defence, Hold up the ball, or be a threat in the air. So surely a Defoe/Agbonlahor could be used? Just thinking, as when I start my FM game, I may chosse a team with a striker of that mould as my main striker. So I am just thinking in advance... Would like your opinion?

anyone has success with this tactic ?

anyone has success with this tactic ?

thought about it but my 4-2-3-1 is working well at the moment,it looks good though,defensive record is outstanding,might give it a try if my tactic starts failing

been using this tactic because zeroseas hasnt been working for me, and this tactic has been helped turn around my season excellent tactic

been using this tactic because zeroseas hasnt been working for me, and this tactic has been helped turn around my season excellent tactic

set pieces?

great tactic man...i had with fiorentina fantastic results..

@Wijnand fens

They should carry over with the tactic, I don't know why they wouldn't for you. Anyone else has the same issue?

Anyway, the setup is this if you want to correct 'em yourself:

Corners:

Aim to the far post

FB: stay back if necessary

DMR: stay back if necessary

DML: lurk outside area

CBR: flick near post

CBL: stand on far post

AMC: challenge keeper

AML/R/: go forward

FC: attack near post

Pretty efficient scoring 1 goal every 2 matches on average, with a heading/elevation CB of around 15.

There is a better corner setup you can read of in these forums, which implies overloading the far post, but honestly I don't have much fun after a while when I have Lucchini as the top goalscorer in the League... XD

This setup is more focused on distracting the opposition defenders with lures (the two man on the near post), opening space for the CB on the far one.

Corners def:

fullbacks defending the posts, CBs mark tall man, DMs mark man, AML/R come back, AMC edge of area, FC stay forward.

Free kicks:

Aim mixed

FBs: stay back if necessary

DMR: stay back if necessary

DML: disrupt wall

CBR: mark keeper

Everyone else goes forward

free kicks def: just about the same as corners, only that those who would "come back" now form the wall.

@Corkey

Well, he runs with the ball often (needs good speed, balance and technical qualities), and also moves into channel (speed, acceleration, off the ball), while pressing a lot (physical). When he runs with the ball, he often gets very wide, to then cross back in the middle to the AMC or the opposite inside forward, so, looking at Defoe, I would suggest training him a bit on crossing (however, Pazzini is even lower rated on crossing, so definitely Defoe should still perform well enough). Agbonlahor would probably give his best in a tactic more focused on a pacey striker (wow, this dude is FAST!), but still I don't see why he shouldn't do well here too. Though, as he has very low shooting from distance I would obviously set his relative slider to rarely. I'm also a bit worried about his very low flair, you may want to try lowering his creative freedom and deactivating free movement for him as I guess otherwise he would make a lot of bad choices during the match (though no free movement might get him a bit too much in the way of the AMC? Worth a try). Pazzini too, however, hasn't great flair nor creativity so there shouldn't be too much of a difference. My young Kadlec is doing wonders, considering his actual stats, when I play him on that role in less important matches, so I guess good flair is indeed a skill you may want for your FC.

@Corkey

Well, he runs with the ball often (needs good speed, balance and technical qualities), and also moves into channel (speed, acceleration, off the ball), while pressing a lot (physical). When he runs with the ball, he often gets very wide, to then cross back in the middle to the AMC or the opposite inside forward, so, looking at Defoe, I would suggest training him a bit on crossing (however, Pazzini is even lower rated on crossing, so definitely Defoe should still perform well enough). Agbonlahor would probably give his best in a tactic more focused on a pacey striker (wow, this dude is FAST!), but still I don't see why he shouldn't do well here too. Though, as he has very low shooting from distance I would obviously set his relative slider to rarely. I'm also a bit worried about his very low flair, you may want to try lowering his creative freedom and deactivating free movement for him as I guess otherwise he would make a lot of bad choices during the match (though no free movement might get him a bit too much in the way of the AMC? Worth a try). Pazzini too, however, hasn't great flair nor creativity so there shouldn't be too much of a difference. My young Kadlec is doing wonders, considering his actual stats, when I play him on that role in less important matches, so I guess good flair is indeed a skill you may want for your FC.

Okay thank you, well I'm going to wait and see what reviews this gets, as I am very impressed by the initial presentation. well done I'm a hard man to impress

Hi Kadatherion!

Your tactic look like very impressive!!! and CONGRATULATE!!! How it works your strategy during the match like control, defensive, attacking etc.

Could you or anyone please upload your tactic with set pieces?

MANY THX!!!

Hi Kadatherion

Winning the title with Sampdoria first season is a great achievement !!

Do you have a screenshot of the hole team stats (goals, assists, ratings... of each players) ?

And how does it perform in the second season ?

@Koko4

The setup on which the tactic is built is Fluid - Control. As every slider is then custom ticked in the advanced panel, changing it during the match would not have any effect (only thing it does is rebalance on the fly some sliders like mentality if they are left in automatic).

As for set pieces, they should be indeed in the tactic for download. I double checked it starting a new game yesterday and they were working as intended.

@dudule69

Sorry, I've overwritten that save and at the moment I haven't a game going on long enough to offer valuable statistics. Apart from Pazzini (rating 7.60, goals 27, assists 8 in the league with around 32-33 games played), I can tell you most of the team settled around rating 7.10-7.20 for me after that season (with the obvious exception of the left CB, who gets to around 7:40 thanks to the goals scored from corners). The remaining goals (and assists) scored by the team were quite spread out between everyone from midfield and up, and of course reserves. Don't expect tons of goals from the inside forwards or the AMC though, they all fare at around 10 goals each.

As for second season, honestly, I believe all the talk about the AI suddenly cracking your tactic on second seasons to be just an urban legend. It's a game AI, not HAL9000 from Space Odissey: in my experience most of the time the reasons why some people struggle in second seasons after a successful first one, is because they go back on the market (often for the first time with real money to spend), change several players and the overall match preparation and team gel decrease dramatically. In fact, now that match prep isn't behind the curtains anymore, I noticed a lot less reports of the kind in this forum, compared to the previous installations of the game. There's also morale: when you take a mid table team, just about any won match makes morale skyrocket; after a very successful first season, the team reputation gets considerably higher, as its expectations. As such, winning a match has a tendentially lower effect on morale, while losing one can become a real nuke. Low morale has then a terrible domino effect on performances. And again, the VERY relevant important matches hidden stat: as the team reputation gets higher, fewer and fewer matches are considered "important", and the result is another (non reported by the ass. manager) kind of "complacency" issue to overcome.

Anyway, now I'm planning to start a new "serious" game after Christmas/New Year, going to try to imitate what market transfers Sampdoria will actually do IRL (also known as suicide, it seems they are going to sell Poli and Ziegler too =_="), thus I'll have the time to see the tactic go for multiple seasons.

Can someone upload to another server (mediafire don't work for me) or send me tactic via mail (valerioweb @ gmail.com)?

Thanks,

TylerD.

This is a briljant tactic. I'm currently 1st after 10 games with AS Roma.

so far works well for my team, parma.

After this transfers season, I'm gonna start a new save with milan. And I 'll use your tactic. It seems to work in italy!!!!!

Why not upload one with the set piece tactics built in?

I'm trying this tactic with Milan, and have some good results, i'm in 19 Jan 2011 and i'm in 2nd in serie A, i have to many injured players, Ibrahimovic and Nesta for example