Defending corners

85 minutes gone against league leaders Barcelona, and it's 0-0. I haven't managed much attacking threat but I've kept them at bay too, despite my centre-half deciding to elbow one of their midfielders and get himself sent off midway through the second half.

Then they get a corner. I think my defensive set-up looks OK: men back, marking, and men on the posts.

But what's this? The man on the near post gets bored waiting for the corner to be taken and goes for a stroll:

And as the ball comes across, his colleague on the far post decides that a nice wander sounds like a good idea to him too:

And I have five minutes to find an equaliser, with ten men, against a team who've conceded twice in thirteen games this season.

Christ almighty.

The man on the near post is doing exactly what he should be doing, coming out to win the header if it is poor.

However, he should then drop back onto his post, and I have no idea what the guy on the far post is doing.

The man on the near post is doing exactly what he should be doing, coming out to win the header if it is poor.

No, he's obviously not doing that because if you look again you will see that the corner is yet to be taken! so he has absolutely no reason to be leaving the near post.

No, he's obviously not doing that because if you look again you will see that the corner is yet to be taken! so he has absolutely no reason to be leaving the near post.

He has every reason to be leaving the near post to cover the unmarked man in the corner exploit position.

He has every reason to be leaving the near post to cover the unmarked man in the corner exploit position.

No he doesn't because the OP's tactics are set up to have him at the near post. That means he should stay at the near post and not second-guess the corner exploit. Did the OP say otherwise?

He has every reason to be leaving the near post to cover the unmarked man in the corner exploit position.

Going with that theory, why did the guy at the back post move away?

No he doesn't because the OP's tactics are set up to have him at the near post. That means he should stay at the near post and not second-guess the corner exploit. Did the OP say otherwise?

Decision making attribute ftw. If players stuck rigidly to commands and tactics there would be very few mistakes, which wouldn't be very realistic.

Vic, same reason, you'll notice he's marking someone in the latter screenies so.....yeah, where's my logic

Decision making attribute ftw. If players stuck rigidly to commands and tactics there would be very few mistakes, which wouldn't be very realistic.

Vic, same reason, you'll notice he's marking someone in the latter screenies so.....yeah, where's my logic

Nomis, you don't seem to understand.

His point is that he told the players to stay on the near and far post and they didn't. The reason why they moved away is not the point - the problem is that they DO move away before the corner is taken. The reason for doing so is another matter.

I understand perfectly, i'm just pointing out that decision making will govern whether or not a player listens to their manager or decides to do what they want. Do players, irl, always stay on the post if their manager tells them to?

Vic, same reason, you'll notice he's marking someone in the latter screenies so.....yeah, where's my logic

Only because another player who was marking the player before moved away...

I understand perfectly, i'm just pointing out that decision making will govern whether or not a player listens to their manager or decides to do what they want. Do players, irl, always stay on the post if their manager tells them to?

If the corner hasn't been taken, then yes, they do!

So you've never seen a player on the post come out to mark someone, ignoring his managers instructions, before the corner was taken. Never!

So you've never seen a player on the post come out to mark someone, ignoring his managers instructions, before the corner was taken. Never!

The player who moved away from the back post didn't have anyone unmarked in his vicinity.

I understand perfectly, i'm just pointing out that decision making will govern whether or not a player listens to their manager or decides to do what they want. Do players, irl, always stay on the post if their manager tells them to?

If a player is on a post they generally don't just decide to move away because they have decided they have something better to do before the corner is taken - it is too vital a job and the player should know that.

And how exactly would you get a player to stay on a post then? are we to accept that it is of no consequence that we might actually want a player to stay there?

It doesn't need to make sense, it's to do with decision making, it was a bad decision. Haven't you ever seen someone come off the post for no possible reason that you can see and end up red faced?

It doesn't need to make sense, it's to do with decision making, it was a bad decision. Haven't you ever seen someone come off the post for no possible reason that you can see and end up red faced?

I've never seen a player simply step away from his post, with no unmarked players around him. That isn't decision making, it's idiocy.

If a player is on a post they generally don't just decide to move away because they have decided they have something better to do before the corner is taken - it is too vital a job and the player should know that.

Seriously, so generally there are no mistakes of this nature is real football? You've never seen a player come off his post and his team concede as a direct consequence? Seriously?!?!

And how exactly would you get a player to stay on a post then? are we to accept that it is of no consequence that we might actually want a player to stay there?

That question is moot unless every single player comes off their post, for the most part they stay on the post. If what you're really asking is for them to stick to your tacics rigidly and never make such mistakes, well, that's kinda unrealsitic.

I've never seen a player simply step away from his post, with no unmarked players around him. That isn't decision making, it's idiocy.

You want to start watching more football then, such idocy (or something similar) happens at least once a week in most divisions.

Seriously, so generally there are no mistakes of this nature is real football? You've never seen a player come off his post and his team concede as a direct consequence? Seriously?!?!

Not without reason.

That question is moot unless every single player comes off their post' date=' for the most part they stay on the post. If what you're really asking is for them to stick to your tacics rigidly and never make such mistakes, well, that's kinda unrealsitic.[/quote']

But with something such as this, it's not exactly rocket science to stay on your post if there's no other place to be.

You want to start watching more football then, such idocy (or something similar) happens at least once a week in most divisions.

Idiocy is another form of the word idiot.

Again I say, not without reason. No player ever is on his post, looks around, and decides to waddle off into no-man's land for no reason!

I said "something similar" in the context of a similar idiotic mistake.

Again, I disagree. Plenty of players make mistakes, just like players who move inside instead of staying with their man, it's a common enough error, I don't see the need for debate. You've never seen a player make a mistake that you couldn't explain or understand what he was trying to do?

I said "something similar" in the context of a similar idiotic mistake.

Again, I disagree. Plenty of players make mistakes, just like players who move inside instead of staying with their man, it's a common enough error, I don't see the need for debate. You've never seen a player make a mistake that you couldn't explain or understand what he was trying to do?

Ah, I thought you didn't know what it meant as you spelt it wrong. No offense.

Give me one good reason why a player would move away from his post, if there were no attackers unmarked.

That question is moot unless every single player comes off their post, for the most part they stay on the post. If what you're really asking is for them to stick to your tacics rigidly and never make such mistakes, well, that's kinda unrealsitic.

No its not!

It's pretty basic. You set up a tactic and tell a professional player to stay on the post. He can't do it in this game so you justify it with a) he makes mistakes and b) he doesn't do it every time so it's okay.

So lets get this straight, you can't see any fault here Nomis?

I can see the fault, but I think it's a player error. If it was happening quite often then I might consider it a fault with the game, but for it to happen the odd time is perfectly realistic because it happens in real life.

I can see the fault, but I think it's a player error. If it was happening quite often then I might consider it a fault with the game, but for it to happen the odd time is perfectly realistic because it happens in real life.

Again, give me a reason a player would do this. An example wouldn't hurt either.

Why do you need a reason? It's a mistake, there's no logical reason for it, but players are fallible.

Why do you need a reason? It's a mistake, there's no logical reason for it, but players are fallible.

Because no player would simply step away from his post without reason.

It's different with marking, as the player being marked could drift away, be faster than the marker, etc. But none of those reasons factor into players standing on posts.

I can see the fault, but I think it's a player error. If it was happening quite often then I might consider it a fault with the game, but for it to happen the odd time is perfectly realistic because it happens in real life.

Nomis, why don't you try and see exactly how many times it happens and then come back and tell us what you mean by 'happening quite often' or 'the odd time' and then try to justify your defense that the player is making mistakes and that it is realistic.

Watch the player on the near post - she wanders off when other players have gone to close down the short corner. Her post is open and the opposition score. Yes this isn't an example from the upper echelons of la liga but professional players in the 85th minute of a high pressure game against the league leaders can make these mistakes.

Watch the player on the near post - she wanders off when other players have gone to close down the short corner. Her post is open and the opposition score. Yes this isn't an example from the upper echelons of la liga but professional players in the 85th minute of a high pressure game against the league leaders can make these mistakes.

But there's a reason for that. She was first filling the space left by the player who went to close down the short corner, and then trying to close down the player with the ball.

But her instructions would have been to stay on the near post. It's an example of a player's own decision making overriding the manager's set piece instructions. Just because you don't see the reason the player made the decision to leave the near post in the example doesn't mean they didn't make a decision to do it. A flawed decision undoubtedly, an irrational one probably. But if players in game don't have the capacity to make these kinds of decisions then the game would be a lot poorer for it.

But her instructions would have been to stay on the near post. It's an example of a player's own decision making overriding the manager's set piece instructions. Just because you don't see the reason the player made the decision to leave the near post in the example doesn't mean they didn't make a decision to do it. A flawed decision undoubtedly, an irrational one probably. But if players in game don't have the capacity to make these kinds of decisions then the game would be a lot poorer for it.

Yes, but the player in the screenshots above had no reason to move away from the post. What if it is simply a bug?

Seeing as this discussion has carried on for so long, a PKM of the match in question would be helpful so we could see exactly what happened.

Yes, but the player in the screenshots above had no reason to move away from the post.

The player on the near post decided it was more beneficial for him to be covering the unmarked player at the edge of the box than staying on the near post. That is why he moves before the corner is taken.

The player on the far post obviously decided he was of more use in the melee trying to close down the ball than standing on the far post in this situation. They had reasons, they just made a wrong decision.

What if it is simply a bug?

Then I think we'd see many, many more complaints about this happening to others - and we don't (which given the amount that most forum members here like to complain about the ME tells me it probably isn't a bug!)

Seeing as this discussion has carried on for so long, a PKM of the match in question would be helpful so we could see exactly what happened.

Agreed

The player on the near post decided it was more beneficial for him to be covering the unmarked player at the edge of the box than staying on the near post. That is why he moves before the corner is taken.

I accept that reason. The player on the near post had a good reason.

The player on the far post obviously decided he was of more use in the melee trying to close down the ball than standing on the far post in this situation. They had reasons' date=' they just made a wrong decision.[/quote']

Can I change my question to ask for a reason real players would use? If you've ever played in defence, you would know that you don't move away from your post into a melee.

Then I think we'd see many' date=' many more complaints about this happening to others - and we don't (which given the amount that most forum members here like to complain about the ME tells me it probably isn't a bug!)[/quote']

I have seen complaints about this in the past.

Agreed

What do you say, OP? PKM please.

I've never seen a player simply step away from his post, with no unmarked players around him. That isn't decision making, it's idiocy.

I know I'm coming in late on this one, but Vic, seriously? You've never seen a footballer do something stupid like that? Then open your eyes when you watch football

Can I change my question to ask for a reason real players would use? If you've ever played in defence, you would know that you don't move away from your post into a melee.

I have played in defence, centre back most often so I didn't tend to cover the posts for obvious reasons. If you're on the post you can defend that area of the goal. If you decide to close down the ball you can protect more of the goal if there is only yourself between the ball and the goal. Perhaps describing it as a melee was a poor choice of words but I think I'm still hungover so forgive me. It's difficult to see from the screenies and I'm sure a PKM would clear it up.

As your post implies that you've played in defence you'll also appreciate that keeping focus and concentration into the 90th minute and beyond is difficult. This leads to poor decision making and I genuinely think that's what we have an example of here. A poor decision, a misreading of a situation and I am actually very encouraged to see a more subtle example of this happening in the game. Don't forget the incident happens in the 85th minute of a high pressure game so I think the context is important.

I know I'm coming in late on this one, but Vic, seriously? You've never seen a footballer do something stupid like that? Then open your eyes when you watch football

I've never seen a player step away from his post without reason. And no one has yet shown me an example where they do.

I've never seen a player step away from his post without reason. And no one has yet shown me an example where they do.

Steed Malbranque a couple of years ago, Spurs v Sevilla. Twice. One caused a goal. Countless other players over many, many years.

I have played in defence, centre back most often so I didn't tend to cover the posts for obvious reasons. If you're on the post you can defend that area of the goal. If you decide to close down the ball you can protect more of the goal if there is only yourself between the ball and the goal. Perhaps describing it as a melee was a poor choice of words but I think I'm still hungover so forgive me. It's difficult to see from the screenies and I'm sure a PKM would clear it up.

I think 'melee' was a correct description, as that is what often happen in front of goal when the ball is played in.

As your post implies that you've played in defence you'll also appreciate that keeping focus and concentration into the 90th minute and beyond is difficult. This leads to poor decision making and I genuinely think that's what we have an example of here. A poor decision' date=' a misreading of a situation and I am actually very encouraged to see a more subtle example of this happening in the game. Don't forget the incident happens in the 85th minute of a high pressure game so I think the context is important.[/quote']

I am arguing using personal experience, yes. I, as someone who covers the post, think that anyone who steps away from the post they're meant to be marking without reason needs to be mentally checked.

I still think a PKM would be the best way to clear up this problem, but more are inevitabley going to arise if someone doesn't show me an example of this happening irl.

Steed Malbranque a couple of years ago, Spurs v Sevilla. Twice. One caused a goal. Countless other players over many, many years.

Show me a video of the incident. We'll see if I can come up with a sensible reason for it.

I know I'm coming in late on this one, but Vic, seriously? You've never seen a footballer do something stupid like that? Then open your eyes when you watch football

That's pretty insulting. If you had actually bothered to read this thread then you would know exactly what Vic was arguing. But you haven't, so you don't, and instead you are making yourself look foolish.

Yeah, sure Vic doesn't actually know that footballers aren't perfect. Thanks for that.

That's pretty insulting. If you had actually bothered to read this thread then you would know exactly what Vic was arguing. But you haven't, so you don't, and instead you are making yourself look foolish.

Yeah, sure Vic doesn't actually know that footballers aren't perfect. Thanks for that.

It's okay, mate. Edgar was just messing.

It's okay, mate. Edgar was just messing.

Well, in that case apologies all round for over-reacting.

Reminder to self - stop being such a t**t for no reason

Well, in that case apologies all round for over-reacting.

Reminder to self - stop being such a t**t for no reason

It's cool. Thank you for leaping to my defense though. Much appreciated.

It's cool. Thank you for leaping to my defense though. Much appreciated.

Yeah, don't get carried away mate.

I just happen to agree with you on this one - chances are we'll disagree on pretty much everything else.

Yeah, don't get carried away mate.

I just happen to agree with you on this one - chances are we'll disagree on pretty much everything else.

Yeah, we've had our disagreements in the past, and probably will again in the future.

Back on topic, hope we can get that PKM soon. This is bugging me a lot more than it should...

Well, in that case apologies all round for over-reacting.

Reminder to self - stop being such a t**t for no reason

Sorry, was just messing, didn't mean to cause any nonsense

Vic I'll dig through youtube for the Malbranque thing. I don't think you'll be able to explain it any more than I do with 'its Malbranque!'

No, he's obviously not doing that because if you look again you will see that the corner is yet to be taken! so he has absolutely no reason to be leaving the near post.

Read what I said. IRL, when a player is assigned to "stand on near post", most of the time he will not be positioned between the posts and under the crossbar before the corner comes in, he'll be slightly out in front ready to block the corner if it is weak. If it isn't, he'll run around and get on the line, under the crossbar, next to the post. It's not rocket science.

Read what I said. IRL, when a player is assigned to "stand on near post", most of the time he will not be positioned between the posts and under the crossbar before the corner comes in, he'll be slightly out in front ready to block the corner if it is weak. If it isn't, he'll run around and get on the line, under the crossbar, next to the post. It's not rocket science.

Sorry, but where does that come into it? I believe we were talking about him running away from the goal completely, not changing his position in the goal...

He's come out to block the ball, as far as is visible from the screenies. He doesn't drop back, but it does explain why he did come off his post. "Defend near post" doesn't mean "stand like a lemon on the near post".

He's come out to block the ball, as far as is visible from the screenies. He doesn't drop back, but it does explain why he did come off his post. "Defend near post" doesn't mean "stand like a lemon on the near post".

Ah... we're talking about the guy at the far post now, the one furthest away from the corner. The other guy had a reason.