Administrators Lucas Posted February 24, 2009 Administrators Share Posted February 24, 2009 I can say probably that I'm not the only one to express this view, but two fundamental things in FM in its current form that with some adjustments, could make the game a lot more fun to play, IMO. Starting from the premise that football is about opinions, it is time we: a) Eliminated sliders from tactics and training b) Replacing numbers/expanding graphical attributes* a) Many have said it is hard to understand the sliders, it is difficult for new players, etc and such like. In the tactics arena we have seen the removal of barrows, farrows in favor of an emphasis on player instructions. The next step? Team instructions and a rethink on those sliders. When a manager is talking to players, he cannot tell them in quantitative form how attacking to be, how much freedom to have. It is all qualitative - if we want a player "just play" (ie. C.freedom of 17+) we should tell him that and not use a slider. Similarly in team tactics, the old short, mixed, direct, long was I think, more than fine. Where I think the game could use its intelligence more to make the game easier for the player to go through is putting more emphasis on the coaches, players mental attributes to decide how much the tactics work. It might seem a bit like going backwards to the CM3 days but we cannot put a number on a defensive line, creative freedom, passing and width. Lets make it more descriptive and include more player options so we can become more inventive this way (tick box to tell one winger to hold back, cut inside or run forward, stick to the wing, etc) Team tactics are another thing. I remember a couple of years ago Dave C (I think?) did a brilliant project on his suggestions and its sad really we are stuck to slider method. I would go back, have another look and see where else we can get/ways to make training more appealing. Descriptions are more likely to entice gamers to take more of a hands on role in their teams, not resort to default schedules and default tactics because the slider system is intimidating. b) Graphical attributes in profile - I like this idea, I do, but not when I view squads by attributes and I get their numbers instead anyway - for natural reasons, a graphical bar could not possibly fit in the space there. The solution I ask for is this: A grading system based on 1-20 as defined by database A grading system based on 1-20 in terms of relative playing football status A grading system based on your staff's assessment of the squad - if you do not have a squad, then your reputation, knowledge/time with the players should come into play here. The graphical attributes in profile is a good addition and we should try to make it more appealing. I just find it defeatist to see numbers instead of some symbol to represent their level of play. ---- In short, as said, the game is a spreadsheet and we cannot avoid the quantitative nature of the game, players having specific values, but we CAN mask that and it will seem more real, not robotic. The attribute masking system was termed by Marc Vaughan and co. as a 'fog of war' system, well let's make this an option. *An option, I understand numbers are what made this series great but we should try and make things more a little interesting. There's more things that I could ask for that fit in with my line of reasoning here and why I bring up these ideas - I find the LLM community might not be too far away from this, but there is truth in the saying that 'Football is about opinions' -> Maybe in the game it is with extreme youngsters to a certain extent but other than that the numbers and sliders do rule and its just not the way our beautiful game was played. I'd like to think I'm talking to my players, then when I judge them by seeing them in training I could be wrong about their abilities somewhat (my assistant and scouts might think my star striker has 18 -A*- finishing but really he has just 15 -B+- or something). What are your views on the above? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisW Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 i wish we could give shout at the players from the dugout to give player/team instructions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 So you're going from a scale of 1-20 to some kind of school grading system? I can't wait to hear my scouts tell me the player I'm scouting has C- striking. Realistic, informative. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Aja Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I remember an early FIFA manager on PS2 had something like this. Made no sense whatsoever. Gerrard would be rated like +3 for passing and 2 (or -1?) for heading, or something along those lines. The guy at game got the case launched at him the next morning. Load of old nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kritik Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 leave 1-20 attributes but remove sliders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt SFC Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Your suggestions would only make it more difficult for the casual player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rb Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 This is far too complex frankly. The current system is simple to understand on a whole. What you're proposing would have a far too high learning curve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elrithral Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Your suggestions would only make it more difficult for the casual player. I don't really see any suggestions in the OP TBH :confused: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkVenom Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 si rent boys are out in force again i see, op i think your points are quite valid and it would add a whole new dimension to the game making it far more interactive, which imo can only make this game better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neji Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 The attribute system has to stay - it may not be entirely realistic but there is nothing wrong with it IMO. The sliders do need some work though. I don't mind the sliders, but either we need more help to show what they are doing (ala FIFA 09) or we need something much more simple to use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeuS0r Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 yeah, those sliders suck. they are totally unrealistic.. the players don't respond to them anyway.. if i pick ONLY short passing, my goalkeeper kicks the ball directly to the striker and he scores. if i don't use "counter-attack", i often score a few counter attack goals, when the opposition goes 4-2-4. if i pick "counter-attack", the opposition ALWAYS strikes 1 or 2 goals. i always wondered, how this counter-attack thing works. if i pick ONLY short passing & "counter-attack", they players should be totally confused. on the one hand, they should slowly pass the ball to the next free player, but he also should look for a quick counter-attack?! wheres the difference between long passing and "counter-attack"? it should be the same. there are lots of tactical options, which don't logically fit together, but i tested it, and it works. i think, the match engine just don't respond to some instructions.. this game sucks.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkVenom Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 you cnt say it sucks the si rent boys will give you a infractions lmfao Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elrithral Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 i always wondered, how this counter-attack thing works. if i pick ONLY short passing & "counter-attack", they players should be totally confused. on the one hand, they should slowly pass the ball to the next free player, but he also should look for a quick counter-attack?! wheres the difference between long passing and "counter-attack"? it should be the same. Are you seriously trying to say that counter attack would be impossible with short passing :confused: The tactical sliders dictate the propensity of the team/player to use short passing or counter attack, it does not make it inevitable i.e. I tell the team not to play counter attack, doesn't mean they will never counter attack, the players have to have the ability to decide by themselves as well as follow tactics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted February 25, 2009 Author Administrators Share Posted February 25, 2009 Whoa whoa, guys. I suggested that perhaps they could go, but what I really want is this: Launch FM, and load up graphical attributes in profile. You will see fancy bars and stuff for their attributes when you click on a player. However, go on the player search screen, or overview - attributes in your first team with your list of players, and you will "reveal" the 1-20 attribute of player X's finishing. Now, I'm NOT saying remove it, there has to be numbers in the game, its just classical gaming. But expand the "The graphical attribute in profile" so that for those of us want to live by our own judgment rather than number crunching, we can. Make this optional, surely? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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