How to know if the defensive problems is your formation or the players?

[bcereus]

This may be a very obvious thing but I am quite new to creating my own tactics and instructions instead of using pre-made ones. It's really rewarding but also frustrating. I've created a formation and tactic that I like, it creates alot of clear cuts chances and almost double the half chances every time, the only issue is the defence. I've tried many different things, I used to play a high line with a lot of pressing but i was getting exploited so much that I stopped. So i reverted to a structured mentality with much less closing down and a deeper line. But still for some reason I still concede and my center backs cannot defend crosses, they just can't.

So my question is how do you know if the issue is your tactics or if your players are the problem. 

I've attached my formation and instructions. It may be very flawed. Any help would be great.

 

[Seagullfan]

I think maybe you need to understand exactly how the goals are being conceded so you can identify the problem. Replay the goals against from when the opposition start their attack and keep stopping the action and look at player positions. See if you can identify where the problems are as the attack builds as there could be any number of reasons.

Are tackles being missed, have they found it too easy to exploit the space behind the WB's, are the wide men finding it too easy to deliver a cross, are the WB's too slow to react and not cutting out the crosses in time, what is preventing the DC's from clearing the cross when it comes in. 

By closely watching these details in the build up to goals you should see a pattern emerging as to what the fault is and how you can deal with it.

[Scrench]

1) The formation shows your defensive shape more or less and by the look of it you leave the halfspaces completely open. In this years ME even compact formations struggle to cover these areas, and by having very few players behind the ball this becomes an even bigger issue, teams will just walk through you. I see that you want to utilise IWBs so it becomes hard to create a formation that allows to be defensively sound and also attack the same way you want, so you might have to make some compromise, but my knowledge is limited with IWBs so someone else probably have a better advice here.

2)I don't understand how you want to play. The team instructions coupled with the roles make no sense. 

• You have IWBs and WM-As who are more half space orientated and you also have fairly narrow TI. This leaves you with almost no width. The IWBs also start centrally when building out from the back, which means you don't have wide players in the build-up phase, making it easier to press as your enemy only has to access central areas, so your central defenders might have to play more long balls, which leads to the next point.
• You have 2 BPDs, but why? They will try more long balls, but to whom? It's pointless having them. With a strikerless system forcing quick vertical play is not optimal as you have no depth, your whole team is cramped into the middle.
• Probably this is why you have selected possession instructions, but they contradict your system. There are only a few natural triangles, no width, and the roles you selected won't help either, with only attacking duties in the front 4 a lot of actions will feel rushed and direct. The higher tempo won't help either.
• You play with control mentality which is fairly agressive one, but play with much less closing down, a not high defensive line, but also employ offside trap. Coupled with the role selection you just don't have a stable defensive structure, it's a mess. Prevent short GK distribution is also a mistery.
• Structured will make an even bigger distribution of mentality so your front 4 will be more agressive so stay higher up, which means you are resorted to the other 6 players who are in a poor defensive structure

So there is plenty of issues which can lead to a concede fest, but without seeing the actual goals we can only guess if it was a player mistake or the flaw of the system.

Hope this was helpful.

[Rashidi]

On 14/09/2017 at 01:40, bcereus said:

So my question is how do you know if the issue is your tactics or if your players are the problem.

Play the tactic with Barcelona, or another very good team, and see how they fare with the tactic and do it on FM Touch.

[bcereus]

17 hours ago, Scrench said:

1) The formation shows your defensive shape more or less and by the look of it you leave the halfspaces completely open. In this years ME even compact formations struggle to cover these areas, and by having very few players behind the ball this becomes an even bigger issue, teams will just walk through you. I see that you want to utilise IWBs so it becomes hard to create a formation that allows to be defensively sound and also attack the same way you want, so you might have to make some compromise, but my knowledge is limited with IWBs so someone else probably have a better advice here.

2)I don't understand how you want to play. The team instructions coupled with the roles make no sense. 

• You have IWBs and WM-As who are more half space orientated and you also have fairly narrow TI. This leaves you with almost no width. The IWBs also start centrally when building out from the back, which means you don't have wide players in the build-up phase, making it easier to press as your enemy only has to access central areas, so your central defenders might have to play more long balls, which leads to the next point.
• You have 2 BPDs, but why? They will try more long balls, but to whom? It's pointless having them. With a strikerless system forcing quick vertical play is not optimal as you have no depth, your whole team is cramped into the middle.
• Probably this is why you have selected possession instructions, but they contradict your system. There are only a few natural triangles, no width, and the roles you selected won't help either, with only attacking duties in the front 4 a lot of actions will feel rushed and direct. The higher tempo won't help either.
• You play with control mentality which is fairly agressive one, but play with much less closing down, a not high defensive line, but also employ offside trap. Coupled with the role selection you just don't have a stable defensive structure, it's a mess. Prevent short GK distribution is also a mistery.
• Structured will make an even bigger distribution of mentality so your front 4 will be more agressive so stay higher up, which means you are resorted to the other 6 players who are in a poor defensive structure

So there is plenty of issues which can lead to a concede fest, but without seeing the actual goals we can only guess if it was a player mistake or the flaw of the system.

Hope this was helpful.

Thank you so much for the feedback, I've taken on board what you've said. I usually used to use other people's tactics without really understanding them but now I am trying to create my own. Obviously I've got alot to learn. I've resorted to a back 3 with CDs, i've still got the IWB but now now the width to compliment this.

 

To be honest I just tried to translate what i wanted to see on the instructions, so i wanted to control the game but I did not want to put pressure on the ball because it kept pulling my players out of their positions and It was irritating me. But i've switched a few things now and I don't actually concede anymore especially with the back four.

[bcereus]

9 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Play the tactic with Barcelona, or another very good team, and see how they fare with the tactic and do it on FM Touch.

Will do, thanks for the advice, I should have done this before haha.

[summatsupeer]

For me I try and decide if I've asked too much of the player.  Was he isolated against a player of equal or better quality? Was he out of position because of what I've told him to do or was he exposed because of another player?

As far as your tactic, even though you have lots of players positioned in midfield, there's two massive channels through the inside.  Its like you've taken a 4132 narrow and moved the central players wide, pushed up the fullbacks and dropped the attackers.  How do you see those changes helping you defensively?

[Wonderkid MC]

1. Your IWB's will likely leave your CD's quite exposed. They may work better as a more standard WB, perhaps on support duty. Better teams will definitely look to ruthlessly expose that space behind them.

2. Tempo - Also if things are not working well having a look at the tempo can help. Notch that back down to normal as a suggestion. A normal tempo may be easier for your players to work with. While a quicker tempo can help unsettle opposition, sometimes passes can be too rushed for lesser players who lack the Technique, First Touch, especially Passing and the necessary Decisions rating high enough (14+ or 15+) to make it work. Very intelligent players really can work at pretty much any tempo effectively.

3. Tactical familiarity - How familiar with the tactic are your team? With any changes the fluidity of your team's tactical familiarity can drop a bit so keep an eye on that. It can be difficult to compete even with the right tactics if frequent changes are made and the team are never totally fluid with their tactical familiarity.

4. Creative freedom - Too expressive? Maybe switch that off to help simplify things. Your current players might be struggling to pull that off without giving the ball away needlessly which will certainly put more pressure on your defence. Even in real life lesser players can respond better (as a team) to less complicated instructions.