Pretty but pointless - any advice?

[Peregrine]

Hello all,

I'm gunning for promotion from League Two with my Oldham side but have been encountering some problems of late. Here is our usual Control tactic on Flexible or Fluid, playing a possession game:

DLF(s)/TM(s)

IF(a)      W(a)

BBM(s) RPM(s)

BWM(s)

FB(a) CD CD FB(s)

Instructions: (Keeper) Pass to Full Backs, Retain Possession, Play Out from Defence 

After a solid start to the season we've hit a five match winless run and all the games are following a similar pattern. I've been getting a lot of games where we dominate possession and shots but can't create CCCs, concede the first goal (usually from a cross from our left hand side) and then have to push to equalise. At home this has been resulting in draws; away, in narrow losses. My IF(a) is our best striker but an AF doesn't fit into our 4-1-2-3 system. I've considered switching to a 4-2-3-1 to be able to play the AF, a 4-1-2-1-2 (ditto) or to a defensive 4-1-4-1 to which my other players are suited. There aren't generally enough two striker teams in the division to play  3 defender systems.

We are the best passers in the league and were on course to finish in the playoffs but have now dropped out because of this. It's only November and we're only a few points behind so there's still plenty of time to recover. Any ideas? Happy to take screenshots.

[craigd84]

personally swap out control for STANDARD... you may find that teams are becoming more defensive against you as CONTROL is quite an aggressive mentality. So the AI have adapted gone on the defensive and your players cant find space in behind. 

Dont forget consistency and pressure can play a part too!

[ham_aka_stam]

I'd disagree that AF doesn't work in a 4123, you just need to be willing to switch it up if he's not getting enough of the ball.

If you're having lots of shots but not CCC, where are these shots coming from? Are players shooting because they have no other option? How can you give them more options?

[sporadicsmiles]

You central midfield is basically not going to exist when you are transitioning from attack to defence, because both your players are going to be roaming somewhere around the pitch. This will leave you vulnerable when you lose the ball and the opposition attacks, and give your BWM so much work to do that he will never be able to do it effectively. I'd suggest at least one more static role there, although I do agree a runner from midfield is a good idea in this tactic.

I rarely play with the wide players on attack in this formation, because they often start too far forward, but that is up to you. 

If you are struggling to create chances, try to get rid of retain possession. For me this is a fundamentally defensive tactic. You want to deny the other team the ball by keeping it, and creating chances is giving the other team the ball. It shortens passing range, and makes your players less likely to take on a risky pass. 

Do you have players good enough to play out of defence? 

[Harpoon76]

My limited knowledge I would agree -  the BBM and RPM both have the PI of "Roam From Position" and the BMW(S) could/should be trying to win the ball back high up the pitch, so your two CDs may/will be exposed.  Try a more static role to screen in the middle of the pitch pitch.

[Peregrine]

Hi all,

Thanks for your feedback. I've followed your suggestions: moving towards a Standard mindset, only using the Retain Possession later in games to see them out and putting my Winger on Support rather than Attack. Right now the RPM is injured so I'm using an AP(a) which is working well.

On 19/07/2017 at 10:48, ham_aka_stam said:

I'd disagree that AF doesn't work in a 4123, you just need to be willing to switch it up if he's not getting enough of the ball.

If you're having lots of shots but not CCC, where are these shots coming from? Are players shooting because they have no other option? How can you give them more options?

I gave the AF a go in the Striker position and he ended up getting a goal and having a great game. In the following game I moved him back to LW for rotation and he had lots of shots but a 5.9 rating, so I'll consider playing him in his natural position more often until he improves his long shots and is Accomplished as an Inside Forward. Guess I'll need someone else for the left side.

When it comes to giving them more options for shots, that is the aim of the BBM and having a Winger(A). I'm still not scoring as much as I would like but in the past few games I've gotten 1-0s that should have been more so the changes I've made seem to be working for now!

 

[jorgvandervloed]

I see two potential problems with your tactic; one defensive and one attacking.

Defensive-wise your IF (A) and W (A) won't do much and won't track back as much as you want and the BWM (S) will pressure the opponent too much to be your holding player. And you have two attacking players on the left side with the FB (A) and IF (A) - you already mention conceding goals on this side.

I would change the FB to support and change the IF to support with the PI that he will make more runs. You could also accept that he won't track back and keep him on attack duty. Don't worry about the FB not overlapping; he will still do this, but will choose his moments better. Besides, you already have a runner in the BBM (S) and are looking for defensive stability. 

On the right side, I think a RPM (S) is a very demanding role for players in the lower leagues. Besides the roaming, he will also dribble more just like the winger in front of him. An AP (S) may be a better choice as he will be able to launch the winger with through passes. 

Also, I would recommend reading Cleon's thread about possession.  It's a great read!

[Peregrine]

20 hours ago, jorgvandervloed said:

I see two potential problems with your tactic; one defensive and one attacking.

Defensive-wise your IF (A) and W (A) won't do much and won't track back as much as you want and the BWM (S) will pressure the opponent too much to be your holding player. And you have two attacking players on the left side with the FB (A) and IF (A) - you already mention conceding goals on this side.

I would change the FB to support and change the IF to support with the PI that he will make more runs. You could also accept that he won't track back and keep him on attack duty. Don't worry about the FB not overlapping; he will still do this, but will choose his moments better. Besides, you already have a runner in the BBM (S) and are looking for defensive stability. 

On the right side, I think a RPM (S) is a very demanding role for players in the lower leagues. Besides the roaming, he will also dribble more just like the winger in front of him. An AP (S) may be a better choice as he will be able to launch the winger with through passes. 

Also, I would recommend reading Cleon's thread about possession.  It's a great read!

Thanks! I've now changed my W(A) to a W(s) and reduced the left FB to a FB(s). Maybe I'll change the BWM(s) to a BWM(d) or a DM(s) to help us keep possession better. The player I have for the RPM(s) is 4 stars for League 2 but he probably doesn't have the stamina and finishing for that role. I'll keep him as an AP(A).

I'm quite sore right now as I got another 1-1 draw in a tight game. This time it was entirely unexpected - we finally broke through a tough defence after dominating all game then conceded an equaliser in injury time when I forgot to change my FBs to Defend. Will get better slowly!