I'm shipping a ton of goals. Help appreciated

[balaban]

A little bit of context:

in S1 with Werder I finished 9th, then 3rd in S2. Now in S3 I'm hovering around 7th. We score goals for fun and offensively we have no problems, but defensively it's usually a disaster. When we win we tend to "only" ship 1, but when we lose we usually lose by a ton of goals.

Hopefully you guys can tell me what I'm doing wrong, as I keep tinkering and it's only gotten worse.

Here's the basics. Individual instructions are Close Down Less and Pass it Shorter, both on the centre-backs.

I know the first things that jump to mind are probably that the fullbacks won't defend and the defense will be vulnerable to through balls, but oddly the fullbacks are never caught out by counters and almost all the goals we ship are 'continued attack' with the defence well in placeThe problem seems to be the defenders just watching as the attackers next to them score, I can't figure out why exactly.

Thanks guys

[balaban]

Funnily, after a couple days of tinkering with no results, I think I may have solved it immediately after posting this.

Will do a few more games to be sure, but I would still LOVE to get feedback from you guys

[Jambo98]

You are playing a very intense high block - Very high Dline and lots of closing down. You need to have very specific player types to make this work over a sustained period. You need high teamwork, work rate and stamina. Probably also Concentration (NB - if you are conceding late in games, have a look at the concentration stats for your players).

Other than that, you have zero defensive cover on your flanks. Your wide men both have high starting positions and attack duties. You will be exposed to 2 v 1 down the flanks, and although the goal may not come directly from that, it could be how the move gets started.

Lastly - Why tighter marking? This will mean your defenders could easily be beaten by a more skilled attacker, of which there are a few in the bundesliga?

[balaban]

You are playing a very intense high block - Very high Dline and lots of closing down. You need to have very specific player types to make this work over a sustained period. You need high teamwork, work rate and stamina. Probably also Concentration (NB - if you are conceding late in games, have a look at the concentration stats for your players).

Thank you for the reply.

My fullbacks have tons of all of the above, and the DM....well he's Sven Bender

But the center-backs lack work-rate. You think that might be the problem? Again, I don't really concede from balls in behind, it's always when the entire defense is in position.

(EDIT: I did try to have a deep defensive line with no offside trap and little closing down for a few games, but I conceded even more goals)

Other than that, you have zero defensive cover on your flanks. Your wide men both have high starting positions and attack duties. You will be exposed to 2 v 1 down the flanks, and although the goal may not come directly from that, it could be how the move gets started.

Indeed, this has helped. Moving them to MR and ML. It's still bad, but not terrible as it was before.

The other thing I changed was the Anchor man to 'close down much less'. He was getting dragged out of position and leaving a hole in front of the defence.

Lastly - Why tighter marking? This will mean your defenders could easily be beaten by a more skilled attacker, of which there are a few in the bundesliga?

I was thinking that since I'm pressing so aggressively, tight marking will mean my players are closer to the opponent when the ball shifts to their side of the pitch and they start pressing, as well as close down passing lines.

I'm not well versed on the advantages/disadvantages of tight marking or when it should be used, would you enlighten me?

On another note, it seems that going back through all the games where I ship a lot of goals (the ones I lose), my defenders all have 5.8-6.0 rating. Like, all of them every time. They can't be consistently having a bad day as a group, it's clearly something I'm doing wrong.

[Jambo98]

I would think that the bad average rating is because the massively high block is a very intense tactic. Every mistake is likely to be punished. Do your defenders have many "mistakes"noted in their stats?

[balaban]

How do I check that?

[Jambo98]

Player profile > Reports > Stats

Then bottom right (if your panels are same as mine) will be total mistakes, and mistakes leading to goals.

[Luizinho]

I don't want to be 'that guy', but I think the current ME is quite goal 'heavy'. Maybe worth taking into account.

[balaban]

Thanks

Fullbacks at 48 in 14 games (no goals) and 41 in 12 games (no goals)

One CB at 33 in 14 (1 goal) and the low work rate lumbering hulk at 59 in 16 (3 goals)

[Jambo98]

Yeah 4 goals from centre backs mistakes in what i assume is around 16 games in total is not a good sign.

I really think you shouldnt underestimate the ability that is needed for Maximum pressing/maximum high dline. Barely 2 teams have succesfully managed it in recent times (Dortmund for 2 years and Athletico now for 2 years)

[Barnet]

First thing I'd do (which has been alluded to already) is try to keep the anchor man as central as possible. As such I close down rarely and stand off tackles. I use the Anchor Man to slow down the opposition, make them turn and allow my Midfielders and Attacking full backs the opportunity to get back. If he's chasing the ball all over the place, he'll leave gaps.

[balaban]

I'd argue Dortmund haven't at all this season

Alrighty, I'll go back to a deep line and see if we stop conceding once the players get used to it.

Thanks guys. I'll report back later on.

[Jambo98]

I'd argue Dortmund haven't at all this season

Alrighty, I'll go back to a deep line and see if we stop conceding once the players get used to it.

Thanks guys. I'll report back later on.

Yeah the Dortmund bit was the previous 2 years!

Why go so extreme in a swing?

Why not notch it down. Rather than "Push much higher", go with "Push higher". Same with closing down. Why not notch it back from "closer down much more" to "close down more"

It means you can stick to your approach, but just be less extreme?

[balaban]

Simple. If the high line's not working and my CBs are very good in the air, try to take advantage of it

[Jambo98]

Ok.

That really doesnt make a lot of sense. You need to have a clear game plan of what you want to do from the outset, and if it isnt working marginally, tweak it. To totally change your entire way of playing isnt methodical.

Are you under the impression that the centre backs are the key men with a high press? Your need to see your entire team as a unit.

Best of luck though

[Double0Seven]

Hovering around 7th doesn't seem like a big disaster for a team like yours. What's the prediction? Somewhere mid table? 4-3-3 seems very attacking this year. With my own Hull side scoring 50+ goals and conceding 70+ on my save. But I do see it as a great tactic to break down weak teams because of the movement.

[balaban]

Where do I check the media prediction in mid-season? Board expectations are "respectable positions"

7th is hardly a disaster, just shouldn't be letting in insane amounts of goals

[Double0Seven]

Click on the sidebar competition>Bundesliga>overview>media prediction.

What is 'insane' amount?