Centrebacks getting pulled about

[richardh2136]

Howdy,

Im currently trying to get a 4-4-1-1 formation working, however i keep noticing the same problem, several times per match both centrebacks will close down the player on the ball (be it the striker or an attacking midfielder) leaving a gaping hole for a runner to charge through and get an easy 1-on-1. Its particularly noticeable when the opposition has lined up with a 4-2-3-1.

Heres a couple of screenshots from my last 2 games:

I can see that it appears as though the central midfielders, perhaps the left sided one in particular, appears to be not bothered about tracking back, particularly in that 3rd pic, but i dont get why that means the defense are doubling up on one guy and leaving a huge gap.

The DCs are both set to defend, though i did attempt to set them both to cover in the second half of my most recent game and the same thing still happened.

My central midfield is a BBM support as the LCM and a CM defend as the RCM

Before someone asks, yes, I am using hassle opponents, so is that basically the issue? If i want my team to be applying pressure i just have to accept that my central defenders are going to make these balls ups every game?

I'd be much appreciative of any advice.

Thanks.

[WayneRomney]

Is both your CDs set to 'Defend'? If that's the case, putting one of them on 'Stopper' of 'Cover' should help.

Cover is probably the way to go.

[richardh2136]

I had them both set to defend and had dabbled with both as cover.

Ive set one to cover and one to defend but, as of yet, im still seeing the same issue cropping up.

Maybe it's just a case of 'settling in' to the new role.

[Tyren27]

Do you use "Hassle opponent", "Roam from positions", "Tight marking" or "More expressive" tactics ? Any of these would help the defenders go out of position.

[richardh2136]

Do you use "Hassle opponent", "Roam from positions", "Tight marking" or "More expressive" tactics ? Any of these would help the defenders go out of position.

As i said:

Before someone asks, yes, I am using hassle opponents, so is that basically the issue? If i want my team to be applying pressure i just have to accept that my central defenders are going to make these balls ups every game?

Im not using any of those other options though.

[Auqakuh]

Hassle Opponents seems to mess up central defenders some. You have a couple of options on fixing it; as someone else said, setting one CB to cover can help, although setting one to stopper will make no difference. But that's no use if you prefer to play the offside trap.

So, the best way to ameliorate the issue is pretty simple: turn off Hassle Opponents and either push higher up (if you want a high press) and then set opponent closing down instructions accordingly, and/or set individual player instructions on closing down more. For example in my 4-3-3, the left and right central midfielders both close down more while the central midfielder doesn't, with both wingbacks also closing down more. The effect is pretty much identical to the pressing alterations made by "Hassle Opponents", but my centrebacks stay in position more (although great movement by an opponent can still, realistically, cause them to fluff their lines). One other issue is that sometimes a centreback goes to press a wide player when the wingback is already doing so, but this might be WAD as it sometimes happens in RL, too.

If you don't want to use player instructions or OIs, you can just push much higher up and be more narrow. Players will just naturally be nearer their opponents, and, naturally enough, press them. Of course that means modifications to your defensive approach if you don't already play a high press... and it also probably means you'll have to set one or two attacking players to roam, else you may struggle to break down some teams.

[richardh2136]

Fair enough, i guess i'll have to try that and turn hassle off.

In terms of the STC, AMC and WMs, is the option to close down more greyed out because theyre already doing so, or because theyre unable to do so?

[Auqakuh]

Depends on the role.

AFs close down naturally (I think); Poachers don't close down at all because they're too busy finding attacking space in case of a counter-attack; trequartistas do whatever the hell they want... Inside forwards don't close down because again, they're finding pockets of space ready for a counter. Wingers I think can close down more or less...

It sort of depends on the role. If it's very attacking, it's greyed out because they're finding space for the counter; if the role is more of support, it's likely to be greyed out because they're already doing it.

You can still override a greyed out no-pressing role, in theory, by setting an opposition instruction to always close down a player who is "near" to them on the pitch, but they'll only close down until another teammate can take over, which can break your defensive shape horribly, so I wouldn't try it.

As a rule of thumb, if "close down more" is greyed out but "close down less" isn't, then they're closing down as a natural part of their role. If it's the other way around, then they do not close down as part of the role, and closing down would change the role too far from its natural state and would indicate you actually don't want them playing that role at all, so isn't an option. It's the same for all of the instructions that aren't just "on" or "off" but have multiple states.

[richardh2136]

Top stuff, thanks for the tips. I'll have a play about.

80 minutes into the first match trying this way and the centrebacks have behaved....so far!

Havent noticed too much of a drop off in pressing either. Which is what i was worried about.

Edit: In fact, i even just saw a situation develop that would have previously led to the 2 centrebacks pressing the 1 dribbler and only 1 of them went to close him, the other held his shape.

he still managed to give away a pen after the leftback went to sleep on the resulting through ball. But progress is progress!

[Britrock]

At a guess re. how closing down works in the ME: players have a radius around them that when a player with the ball enters, they move to close them down. Hence people seeing multiple players closing the ball carrier down (the ball carrier entered multiple players closing down "circles"). Hassle opponents probably extends that radius outwards, so players will charge towards the ball carrier from further away (leaving them vulnerable to through balls if they don't get there early enough).

[Auqakuh]

Yes, but they ought to be making their decision on whether or not to press based on whether or not the player is already being pressed. It's not just an on/off switch; it's much more complicated than that.

For some reason even players with high decisions and high composure are just making the wrong decisions with certain tactical instructions. I rather suspect it's a knock-on from what was done to fix full-backs failing to close down, and hopefully it'll be balanced out later.

Top stuff, thanks for the tips. I'll have a play about.

80 minutes into the first match trying this way and the centrebacks have behaved....so far!

Havent noticed too much of a drop off in pressing either. Which is what i was worried about.

Edit: In fact, i even just saw a situation develop that would have previously led to the 2 centrebacks pressing the 1 dribbler and only 1 of them went to close him, the other held his shape.

he still managed to give away a pen after the leftback went to sleep on the resulting through ball. But progress is progress!

Huzzah!

[WayneRomney]

To be honest, I've never seen this a major problem after I set one to Cover and to Defend, and I play with 'Hassle opponents'. I've seen it against teams that play a 4-1-2-1-2, where the AMC can be a handful to close down, but other than that it seems fine. Not sure what I've done differently than anyone else.

[kotzemazza]

Top stuff, thanks for the tips. I'll have a play about.

80 minutes into the first match trying this way and the centrebacks have behaved....so far!

Havent noticed too much of a drop off in pressing either. Which is what i was worried about.

Edit: In fact, i even just saw a situation develop that would have previously led to the 2 centrebacks pressing the 1 dribbler and only 1 of them went to close him, the other held his shape.

he still managed to give away a pen after the leftback went to sleep on the resulting through ball. But progress is progress!

Is that the result of you setting one of your defenders to a cover duty, as suggested by WayneRomney and Auqakuh?

[richardh2136]

Is that the result of you setting one of your defenders to a cover duty, as suggested by WayneRomney and Auqakuh?

No, that was from turning off hassle opponents and giving the instruction to close down more to the guys other than the centrebacks that i was able to give it to.

I wasnt fond of setting one to cover as im using the offside trap.

There have been games since where ive noticed it happen again, but nothing like multiple times per game as was happening. If/when i spot it, i tend to stop playing the offside trap and setting the CB with better anticipation and pace to cover duty. I think that seems to help.