thejay
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Posts posted by thejay
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vor 3 Minuten schrieb Chris21:
Surely it will be before March that we see a patch?
i do hope so, last year they had an open beta which received earlier updates, I wonder what happend to that idea
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vor 9 Stunden schrieb Kyznar:
SI need to start doing one thing game developers do more often now. "Developer Diary". Tell us whats going on and where youre at. Transparency is key in this modern consumer environment we live in, so we dont escalate frustrations into potentially incorrect assumptions/opinions. For a long running game series such as this there should be more back and forth between community and developers. Right now, it feels like a lot of back and no forth.
Also, the typical response to what i just said would be to imply that delays can occur in the patching/development process and that some updates in specific areas may get pushed back or cancelled entirely, therefore it would unwise to create a "Developer Diary" that could have negative effect on the games image. For me though, IT IS OK to inform the player base about potential changes and then they dont actually get implemented due to unforeseen issues after said "Developer Diary" was released. YOU WILL NOT loose sales over this, I am still going to buy the latest version of the game even if I know that the following year there is a planned big feature/ME inclusion/update.
The point is, I firmly believe the current player base interaction strategy is completely outdated from SI Games.
I agree this would help a lot , more and more devs do that and I think its very important to keep the goodwill of the community
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vor 9 Stunden schrieb Mitja:
Number 5 is even moving awey from where he should be, opening space for striker. Ball falls exactlly where he should be positioned.
This happens all the time when balls are played over the top
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vor 13 Minuten schrieb Tiger666:
Think I'll give this up until the patch. Everything feels so random. I go from losing 5 games on the trot playing terribly then smashing my big rival 5-0. Same players, tactics etc. I don't feel like I'm really in control of it.
same thing for me , chances are so random and out of control unless you play and exploit the long balls over the top.
For example my team is passing and combining in a promising location only to hoof the ball to the full back on the other side or to pass back or run into the by line.
But then the ball is passed around in midfield and someone shoots from 40m and scores. random .
I feel i have set up my team to create chances with my tactic and indeed we seem to be able to create openings in the defense in dangerous areas but moves are never finished and goals are scored from elsewhere , balls over the top , random shots or set pieces or someone dribbles by himself through the other team.
Its not about winning , i am consistently top of the table , won the Serie a with Florentina in the first season , but its just so boring and random. I dont seem to be in control in helping my team win .
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vor einer Stunde schrieb anagain:
For me this last paragraph shows just how unlikely it is for SI to ever win. If people weren't complaining about the match engine then they would be complaining that the game doesn't look as nice as games like FIFA.
It also shows just how little people will understand the game. Of course SI have to program for users to change the game. Every substitution or player you put in your team changes games.
So you want the game to be a series of events do you? You want to take away everything great that football manager has going for it to turn it in to a cheap mobile style game?
Then we have the beauty that is asking how SI missed this. It just proves that you have no understanding or care regarding how game development, and coding of a game as complex as FM, actually works. There are thousands of different ways in which this game is played. From teams in lower leagues with basic formations to the likes of Man City and Barcelona. SI are a small team and yet you expect them to catch every little problem that can happen with this game.
There's also the fact that any change to the match engine can have any number of effects, good or bad. You need to read Neil Brock's post that I linked to someone else, above, as well.
But, no, let's just repeat everything that is already known in as ranty and unconstructive a way as is possible. Because that will really help!
you dont need to test 1000 ways the game is played to see the issues, you can fire up any tactic any team or play style and you can see the same issues in a matter of minutes
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vor 14 Stunden schrieb anagain:
I agree. I had a similar thought in my last match, just in reverse. I started the game with a more balanced approach before switching to a more aggressive approach to chase the game. Once I went attacking the opposition started getting chances from balls over the top.
To me that is not totally an error with the match engine. That is football. It possibly needs altering by SI a little, but in no way do I think this is as bad a situation as so many negative vocies are making out. A lot of it is balance in tactics. If managers are pushing their backlines high up the pitch in an overly aggressive formation, then they need to expect the opposition to try to get in behind. Leave the space and teams should exploit it.
It's not about that long balls happen, but that they are way too accurate and frequent and that defenders just don't really defend striker runs which results in copious one in one's which are not converted to keep the goal numbers realistic.
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any confortable mouse should do , no need for a gaming mouse with a top sensor
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Will there be an open beta again like last year?
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vor 28 Minuten schrieb akinozcan:
I wonder left or right backs still caught many offside in 22/23. Can you please check the top 20 players list caught offside?
I get at least 10 offsides per game from my left back after simple combination passes.
This is an old problem also present in fm 18 I think or even earlier
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vor 9 Minuten schrieb Mitja:
So like fm19? Jesus. Too many crosses? How does it compare to the new one, 20.1.4 was by far best version ever for me.
No crosses but players play foreward immediately in lots of situations despite being told not to( support role, balanced Mentality, short passing, low Tempo, options available).
Player do play more through balls but also in situations they should not
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My post has gained a lot of traction , I didnt really read all the answers because I was busy fiddling with the game.
Also the new patch changed a lot of things, some for the better some are much worse, some are all the same.
I will try to catch up on the responses
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Patch has improved forward passing but its way too much now.
Players hoof it forward despite balanced mentality and short passing setting .
I created chances at a ridiculous rate but this is offset by poor finishing, it needs to be reigned in again, the games are erratic and out of control
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vor 4 Minuten schrieb Tiger666:
I'm not seeing too many of these side netting shots. On the demo so no idea if that's the current match engine.
FB + WB = Shoot less often
AF + W + IF + AP = Close Down More
What kind of goals do you score normally which are not on counters?
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vor 5 Minuten schrieb herne79:
@thejay If you are wanting to understand possession based systems, I wrote extensively about that for FM19 (here, read the posts highlighted in blue). Nothing has changed for FM20 which would have a significant impact on those principles discussed.
I have no problems keeping the ball but create chances from it because players don't seem to pass to the right players, speed up passing when they should or move or the right spaces.
Passing is slow and ponderous, options are not seen despite having ages of time and space.
Decision making seems off, players don't seem to know when to dribble, when to pass and when to shoot and when to cross.
Like I said there are various opinions on the match engine with people claiming different things.
I just want to see the tactics from players who are satisfied or can get their systems to work, espsically passing possession approaches.
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vor 3 Minuten schrieb Dagenham_Dave:
I've not checked and I've closed the game down now, but from what i see, I have most of the possession in games I would expect to have. I'll load it up again later and check. My main save on the full game is more possession based, I'll show that too when I get back home, might also upload some videos of them in action.
Ok thanks .
Your tactic should not make sense when trying to keep the ball but maybe this is the way to go in fm20 when you want to control the game
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thats not really a possession style tactic, its high pressing play forward as fast as possible .
Ifs on attack makes them basically exempt from defending and tracking the fullback.
Do you dominate possession with that tactic?
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I am ingeniously interested, especially possession style tactics.
Please post them here
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vor 36 Minuten schrieb MBarbaric:
i know what you meant on bolded part, but to be (again) painfully pedantic, that isn't really true. During my career (in real football, not this sin of ours) I've encountered numerous teams that use "poacher" up front and combine it with patient and possession hungry football. It all comes down how to compensate for that "lazy" player and there are infinite number of ways.
to get back on point, personnaly, I think the ME is "beyond repair" in terms of representing football under constraints imposed by the code. It is back and forth year after year and there are always holes that can't be plugged. This forum is more like a psychological experiment in sense that you have two very passionate camps. One, that will scream bug on anything that doesn't work for them and the other, equally if not even more annoying, that will claim they want their wingers to stay wide because they want to cover the flanks, or "fishermen friends", long shots.... You remember those back in FM17/18/19? In the end it is the same people on both sides.
I think the main reason for poor offensive play is the same as it always was. In training you learn how to shake off the marker:-curved runs
-check back then run forward
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Those are just two basic things that never happen and these are only individual things. Then you get deeper and you see, i.e. fake runs designed to drag the marker away while using a third man run to exploit the space. The last one actually happens even in FM. However, they are more of a circumstance/chance/accident while in real football they are constant and designed. Moreover, they are integrated with other passing options in a coherent manner. The difference between poor/average/good teams are the number of passing (progressive) options they create at any given moment in possession.
A poor team will have only that one run into space.
a good team will have numerous options. In above example is River Plate entering the middle third against medium/deep defense. They tend to get their playmaker (#15) on the ball in the space vacated by the full back (yellow rectangle). They look to dominate possession so they drop the winger in the half space (dark blue rectangle). However, to create space in center, they keep maximal width with full backs (green circles). This gives more room in the center. You could more/less do the same thing in FM if you chose attacking FB and IW winger or wide playmaker.
Above is the same team only the base for retention is created in a different manner. Here, the RW moves inside (#19) while the LW (#11) switches to the right flank. However, just switching side isn't going to create space to receive the pass. What is actually needed is constant movement from all off the ball players. Two steps back, three steps left, check left-sprint right, move inside-drop deep... These small movement, (coordinated) switches of position are things that make it difficult for the defending team to keep their shape and mantain compactness. They create space and they are almost non existent in the FM. Just think when would your IW from the first picture come to the right flank in FM? He'd always stay more or less on the left. Add to that lack of those small movement to shake off the marker and you are basically left with nothing.
The ME simply doesn't replicate this. Hence lack of space for a pass (plus, I'd wager there is also something wrong with risk/reward calculations on vertical/diagonal passes) in central corridor. This all comes down to how the TC is designed. As per above example, #11 in first picture acts as IW in TC. However, in the next instance he is a Roaming playmaker, or DLF, or whatever. TC is way too rigid to reflect the diversity/dynamism of a real football player in offensive phase.
All this boils down to the way the TC is made. It allows a lot of space for creativity for the human player as there are numerous instructions you can tick/untick. However, this is oriented towards that player and completely disregards everything else. In real game, that one player isn't isolated and tactics are prepared in a coherent manner to include all players exploiting strengths of all of them.Ironically, as I see it, the game is more suited for Director of Football role where you buy/sell and manage the team. That part of the game is on high standard. It fails, however, to represent football on the pitch. If you think about it, why SI don't call a few coaches in their office to play a game of the most realistic football simulation? You are right, they'd be disgusted with central play and move away rage quitting
That being said, it sells so SI must be doing something right. Sadly, it mostly exploits its unknowledgable fan base while neglecting how football (on the pitch) works. I am more and more convinced that this won't be solved (and it doesn't really need to be, to be honest). It is a game, not a tactics simulator. Just look at all those coments from FM17/16/18... people really know little and they just want to get a quick fix of gratification. That is the role of FM and it does it really well. Just let me play as DOF please
Obviously you can't create space in fm like in rl, but that's not the reason many people are not satisfied with the me.
I would be satisfied if the wide players make them selves available for the ball correctly and if they moved correctly in the final third, also if the midfielders would actually play the correct passes.
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vor 6 Minuten schrieb pats:
I do not play a counter attacking style. I play a very patient possession style tactics.
Yes then post your tactics and stats from your attacking players
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vor 5 Minuten schrieb pats:
Currently my most influential players are AMR and AML. May be try making changes to your tactics? (try creating space for your AML/AMR) You just can't plug a tactic and expect ME to play the way you want. The game would have been very easy otherwise.
Do you really think I just plug and play?
I am playing this game for a very long time and spend the most time adjusting tactics
You probably play a counter attacking style, if not post your tactics
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vor 19 Stunden schrieb kiwityke1983:
Except again that's how nearly all professional football teams create overloads IRL.
It's one thing to create overloads, it's another when no other player has attacking relevance.
In fm you can play a bum as aml, amr as they barely influence the game as long as you have great fullbacks
I don't think it works that way in rl
I am winning the majority of my games but the me is so boring, always the same pattern regardless if it's my team or the ai or which tactics, so I stopped playing.
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vor 30 Minuten schrieb ViG1980:
FBs should see plenty of the ball but agree on they being massively over-involved for all tactical setups and getting way too many assists.
When your fbs are the most relevant players for every attack, more dangerous than any top winger or striker or attacker something is not right
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- Popular Post
vor einer Stunde schrieb El_sambo:Me and my mate have literally had to halt playing. Every single year we spend a whole weekend playing fm on its opening weekend. Sure over the years we've always moaned about certain things but never ever actually to a point where we find it unplayable.
We were 2 different sides playing different tactics and styles. Yet both our matches everytime were playing out exactly the same. Get it wide. Shoot or pull it back. Every match feels so erratic and seems like it should finish about 5-5. This was literally about 8 of 10 highlights of exactly the same thing.and I do mean exactly the same!! We actually loved it when opposition went through 1 on 1 as we knew the chances of a goal were pathetically minimal.
Number 10s in this game feel completely redundant
This ME is so dull and predicable feels like it's degenerated about 10 years.just everything. Anyone noticed when the ball hits the post it dosent ping out the ball just dies like it's made of sand? It's so bad to watch We're actually gonna go back and give fm 12 a go and compare the two.
We feel pretty duped at paying 40 ( not 30 anymore) but 40! For exactly the same game as last year but now a worse product.
First time ever we are actually genuinely gutted at the state of this game ( ME to be more specific)
I agree completely the me is so dull and predicable, wide to the fullbacks 95% of the time.
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The match engine
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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted
where did you read that? they said unlikely before the new year , nothing about march