Cloud9

I would be careful with thinking like this, sounds like those roles suit your system well but it certainly doesn't apply across the board to all styles of 4-3-3. The fullback roles that you mention, are also not inherently better than wingback roles. However, I do personally like the fullbacks as they are (as you mention) a bit more defensively minded and sit narrow. I also agree with you that a PF(a) can be great spearheading striker in a 4-3-3, especially on a midblock. No problem, usually the profile I'm looking for is someone with a lot of running (ability to cover space). As you mention, Teamwork, Workrate, Stamina, Determination, and Natural Fitness are staples of any 8 in a 4-3-3 and what primarily makes them industrious. I would want at least one of my 8's to be exceptional at these attributes. As always a good personality and consistency goes a long way. My system (a counter attack midblock) values Aggression, Tackling, Anticipation, Bravery + a strong mentals as I'm expecting them to function as part of the defensive block, and as the primary area I want to challenge for the ball in. To that end I look for 8's w/either a turn of pace (interceptions, ball winning) or a combo agi/balance or strength to exert influence on the opposition. Since the regista is primarily creating behind them, there's less freedom given to them as they screen him and challenge for the ball high up the pitch. A higher lines system can get away with a more "water carrier" profile ie. Jordan Henderson, alongside a more capable (if not equally hardworking) creator/goalscorer. A less capable 8 can be deployed as a CAR to babysit an extremely attacking Fullback position (Trent) who would be otherwise exposed. No matter the system, having them be at least decently proficiently well rounded is important: They have the responsibility to link up the midfield and attacking areas as well as doing the hard yards for the team. They're not 6's or 10's, so their profiles can't be purely destroyer or creator. On a final note, I'd try to remember that the midfield three operates as a unit. For example, in Real Madrid's dominant midfield three: Casemiro (the tank), offered space for Kroos (a great passer of the baller) alongside Modric (who drove forward the most out of the three). It's as much about striking a balance of Creator/Runner/Scorer/Destroyer as anything else. Hope that helped, happy to provide further assistance if need

This can be addressed as many have said above already: Defending higher, away from an area that a set piece is dangerous. Signing players capable of not turning off (high mentals). I'll say it louder for the people in back, high mentals are the answer to most of your defensive woes on FM.

Difficult to say from two still images, if you're experiencing it consistently I would recommend uploading your tactic and getting assistance that way. Players role's don't operate in isolation, which is important to remember whenever you're running into difficulties. I've found TI's like focus play down one side can see defensive player's advance higher up the pitch than usual (I'm not saying that's necessarily the problem here, but giving an example). Posting stats behind the problem can be beneficial as well for diagnosing what's going on. Player's can make bad decisions and get sucked out of position, are you noticing because it's an error in judgement from the player? A heat map for the centerback would give you an idea of if it's an isolated event or something that is indeed happening consistently.

My team scored 4 penalties in the league. I don't see any crazy numbers in my own save, which makes sense since we're not primarily playing in either box (high defensive line, mid block). The physicality I use in my defensive approach makes us dangerous from set pieces with an appropriate taker, sounds like your squad may be lacking these elements. That's not just the player connecting with the ball to score but pace to commit more members forward, a physical player to bully the goalkeeper etc. Counter attacking teams are often strong in these conditions IRL, Brentford has led the set piece charts (efficiency/goals scored) in the 2 previous premier league seasons. The bigger problem is that you're stating there is a issue, w/out providing data and w/out really looking to fix the issue beyond declaring it broken. If you believe there's a bug go report it w/the data you have from your save, not here. I'd compare the numbers you're seeing in game to what's expected IRL. This data graph is about a week old, but gives you an idea what's realistic. Note that this season is not completed yet, but the penalty rate is high this year (unsurprising w/VAR and increased injury time) and that penalty conversion is as well. My team is seeing .17 Goals Scored Per Game From Penalties (for and against), which is significantly below the Premier League expected rate of .25. Considering our lines I'd say that's a reasonable return.

Impressive I dunno if I would be playing him in the first team at 16, I think that could hamper his development before he turns 18. He's got really nice attacking mentals, my concern on him would be his physical profile which will hold him back from getting into a lot of goal scoring opportunities. He is just 16 though, so I guess we will see how he grows up! Just a little acceleration/pace would go a long way for him.

I find a back 3 with two IFB to be very stable! I would look at traits added to the IFB's if that's happening to you. IWB is a bit more of a risk for defensive structure compared to a Libero(d).

I conceded 3 penalty league goals over the course of the season. Again, it's how you set up your squad/tactic. Having my set piece coach manage set pieces, we still scored plenty off corners:

I like Kocoski! Could be a great pivot player alongside a tall DM or could function very nicely as an 8. Moore I'm not sure abut, poor physicals and a lack of a passing holy trinity make him a little difficult. 10 role could help cover up for his lack of physicality, but is he good enough to warrant it? Maybe he could develop into some kind of 8 if his physicals came up a bit. Think Laine falls into a similar category as Kocoski, but I much prefer the combination of reliable mentals + mobility on Kocoski.

Thought I'd include the update as I just wrapped up my season where we led fewest conceded, most clean sheets, and least conceded from set pieces: This was a season where one of my starters, an 8 who was vital in my defensive pressing, snapped his cruciate and my goalkeeper was sidelined for 6 weeks where he'd done his wrist ligaments. Again we were 14th predicted going into the season and our Brazilian goalkeeper, Luiz Junior (a great goalkeeper but I don't think he has crazy ca/pa or anything), was pivotal to this approach. As I mentioned earlier, I had my set piece coach (set piece's 18) handle it all himself. You'll also notice that we only conceded 3 goals directly from a set piece all season. Getting the goals conceded down to .58 a game (and outperforming our xGa) was rewarding but also took a look of work in managing specific opposition and approaches. I would recommend a tall, consistent, shotstopper capable of attacking his own box (aggression, punching, communication, decent quickness, and rushing out) to deal with set pieces. The high defensive line on a midblock helped us commit non dangerous fouls on top of this, despite finishing as one of the sides w/the highest fouls committed. You'll need smart defenders as I touched on above (concentration and anticipation). This is the base for the system I used: Moved fullbacks to wingbacks (d) when going direct. Wingers are off foot. While there are always issues in the ME, and throw ins may be one of those issues, it's not game breaking and if you're conceding 2-0 leads it's on you. It's helpful to remember that the ME is just a reflection of the numbers behind the game. A shot hitting the bar (another thing that happens more often) is the games way of reflecting that you missed, and seeing it happen frequently (while frustrating) doesn't mean you should have scored. Similarly, just because you see a throw in goal happen more often, it doesn't necessarily indicate a bug. Here's a link for anyone looking to improve the game for future versions: https://community.sigames.com/bugtracker/ However, if you want help with how to make changes to your squad/tactic to not concede leads, then this forum is the place for you

I tell them they'll be sold if they complain like that! Mostly it works The other decent option is reminding them of a more influential teammate who came to you w/ a similar problem. If a player is an important senior player w/a poor personality, beware though. You'll have to give them special treatment, like Ferguson to Cantona after the kung fu kick: To the squad: "Absolutely awful the lot of you." To Cantona, "You really can't be doing that son." On those rotation options, by high fatigue I also mean anyone who doesn't have fresh on them. Even low fatigue means they will give tired pretty quick, so I would always prefer to start a "fresh" player if possible. I would recommend dropping player's who are out of form, even if they're not pleased about it. If the team is performing well, usually the above options will work (calming down upset players), so prioritizing form now is almost always preferable for me. Squad player's trained in multiple positions can help keep the squad happy and everyone getting the playing time they need. I only really need a direct backup for each spot once we're competing in European football under the new Swiss format, as well as the domestic cups.

Here's a little mid season update after committing to the Mourinho style play (this is to demonstrate that conceding is not inevitable regardless of how you feel about set pieces): 2 goals in 9 games (neither from set pieces or penalties), although really it's the highest tackles in the league that makes me proud of the lads.

Basically I try to push them as hard as possible without breaking them (w/good physios this is pretty doable). So the first 2 weeks is like pure physical work as intense as possible w/like minimal to 0 rest. After that I do a mix of preseason friendlies so they've got full match fitness when the season starts while I continue to run the boys into the ground (but this time w/a bit more technical training included into the physical). I would tailor training (general sessions are a good staple) to the attributes that will be important to your style of play. Make sure your training schedules have enough rest in them after preseason. A strong pre-season gives the lads the legs to carry on post Christmas and avoid a drop in form. The game doesn't do a great job of indicating to the manager that this is actually important to do. Establish your strongest starting 11 and then add these three collumns to your selection view to see who needs to be rotated in the season: Red injury risk is asking for trouble and high fatigue players will tire quickly. Against easy opposition take the opportunity to start 2-3 squad player's when you can. Injury prone player's will need individualized management of their training which is a pain. Ideally you don't want the Match Sharpness of first time player's to dip too much, so keeping those up is important as well (you can make available previously injured players to the u21 to regain match fitness via right click). If player's are overplayed their development will be severely hampered (its really easy to overplay u23 players who have less capacity for high game volume) and sooner or later their form will drop off a cliff. If this happens to multiple players in the squad, it's a key reason why you go from winning all the time to suddenly being unable to create a chance.

Amazing

Could be a combination of both, difficult to change the fatigue too much at this point so I'd do a deep dive on the pre-season and rotation planning after the season ends. In the mean time I'd watch the matches pretty comprehensively for a little bit and try to make small tweaks to what the opponent is doing. Are you losing because they're playing compact and then directly hitting the space in behind you? When the opposition don't rate you they tend to play more expansively which makes it easier to play through them and nullify their attacking threat. Usually addressing how you score goals and you concede goals is what I look at first when things go wrong. Glad Kalala is working well now

I frequently retrain Fullbacks and Defensive midfielders into other positions for those nice attributes! My right winger(s) at the moment is one of these player's so it's a bit more of a lopsided 4-4-2 (like Ancelotti's Madrid at times w/Valverde on the right wing, although a lot worse). Most of the goals I'm conceding in my own save are actually when I'm looking to take the game to the opposition myself, not when I'm sitting back to defend. I'll go full Mourinho and stop playing expansively at times and post how the results go at the end of my current season. If you're managing the game well, usually you have a fatigue advantage compared to the team attacking so seeing out the game is actually where you're strongest. 1-0 ahead with a half to play and we're cruising. If you're playing on the front foot instead and struggling to see out games, your player's fatigue compared to the opposition is again a factor. Also if you're an attacking side, conceding space and dropping back isn't necessarily a good way to see out games. It can work but if the team can't handle that pressure they'll collapse. Learning to control and see out games in a way that favors your players is important (that can be a possession based style of play as well). Here's my first few games from the season which all started against big opposition. As you can see, keeping clean sheets again superior opposition is not only doable but also repeatable throughout your save.

Do your defenders have poor mentals? it looks like the opposition are reading the game better than you in those set piece clips. Anticipation/concentration are two of the big ones for me when I'm looking at player's who I can rely upon to not switch off like that.

I'm just letting my set piece coach do it and it's not been a problem for me! We're a mid table side, and 2/13 isn't too bad I'm playing a 4-3-3 counter attacking system w/ tackle harder & a high defensive line to defend farther away from the goal. IRL a little less than 1/3rd of goals are scored from or directly after a set piece is taken, the rework is an attempt to address this.

So a mid season dip? If you've overperformed it could be that teams are starting to take you seriously and play less openly. Usually a post Christmas drop is related to a poor pre season or rotation catching up with you.

Does anyone have a clear understanding of the "setting targets" system that was added this year? I've been setting targets with players and it seems like a great way to keep morale and training up. Are there bonus outcomes upon completion of a target to attributes? I'm also a little unclear on how to trigger the reaction to set a target with a player, it seems to come up fairly randomly when I'm praising/criticizing them.

I do not, but here is a photo of the great man you could use if you put together a tactical replication! The forum could help you out I'm sure I think he deployed a narrow 4-4-2 diamond at Milan? The formation struggles in the modern game w/the rise of the 4-3-3, I think Sarri was the last prominent manager to deploy such a system (although he has floundered a bit over recent years).

Following up on this! I'd also like to highlight some questionable transfers out, particularly the sale of Doku 35.5 (48.5m) a two footed 18 pace winger (73ca/84 PA, arguably a more dangerous player because of these attributes than a Rodrygo) and the sale of Nunes for 22m (75/81) to fund the signing of 1 Pedro Goncalves (75/79) who is an older slightly more offensive version of Nunes. They also released a Tommy Doyle for free at age 22, who is now my club captain and worth 39m-51m pounds after one full season lol. Man City splashed 53m pounds to bring in Nunes and 55m pounds on Doku IRL. This by the way, is Tommy Doyle: He is Resolute, Reserved media handling, Consistent, and Enjoys Big Matches. His off foot is reasonable and he doesn't have issues with injuries. Even for a low reputation club like mine, he only asked for 36k pounds a week as a squad player. I ended up rejecting bids up to 45m for him this summer because he's so important to my midfield 3 (playing as a Mez(s) in a mid block counter attacking style). I'm not sure what his CA/PA are (I've been trying to play w/scout only signing and avoid looking outside of reporting for this thread), but he literally has no down sides. It's worth mentioning he has developed in the one year I signed him so to be fair I've included his development as well. I do quite a lot around training but still, it's not like he was in a bad place at all when I picked him up: If the AI can't figure out this is player to keep instead of release it's indicative of big decision making issues around transfers / squad building.

I would go with the enforcer DM(s) w/two 8's capable of utilizing positional play ahead of him. For a possession based 4-3-3 I'd select a ball playing Libero(d) or a IWB(s) to dictate the game alongside the DM(s). You're looking for your wingers to pull and pin the opposition fullbacks wide, opening up space for your 8's to move into in their defence line. The DM(s) as an enforcer in this setup gives the 8's the platform to go and be more adventurous in creating/scoring goals. His role is oriented to protecting the backline from counter attacking transitions in these setups, so some extra height (Rodri esque) would be something to look at. A facilitating profile for the 9, instead of a spearheading striker, is an option as well. The TI "hold shape" + "hit crosses early" on a wider width and lower tempo can help shift the opposition around and patiently create these gaps. Since you're not applying the same pressure that a narrow gegenpress does to the opposition, your highline is more exposed in transitions (which is the DM(s)'s main task here). It's important that the 8's still have industrious attributes as well (they're not 10's) but I'd favor far more expansive profiles than what I'm using for the counter attack style. On role's for the 8, whichever one is attacking the box directly (perhaps a CM(a)) would benefit from having some height on him. Here is how my counter attack 4-3-3 is progressing at the start of my 4th season in charge of the team: It's the first season where I've been able to fully mould the squad into my image and the counter attacking style has been put to the test in a brutal run with 5 games against the big 6 to start things off. 2 conceded is the big takeaway for me! Our media prediction finish is 14th in the league this year, so most teams will be willing to bring the game to us home and away.

So looking up this game Villa 4 vs Forest 2, it looks like this is how Villa set up: It's their go to 4-4-2 this season, Kamara is out w/an ACL injury now (which I didn't realize) so McGinn takes his place alongside Luiz. In terms of that screenshot I think you're seeing Tielemans drop deep in the striker pairing, movement we were seeing from Diaby before his form dipped. Ramsey and Bailey are still the wide players here. If you're seeing the wide player's cut inside you could reflect that in their role, but I'd need to do more looking to tell you how they specifically play in those areas. Tielemans or Diaby I think would be strongly represented by a F9 role though! That would give you that great dropping movement from the striker.

The DM(s) w/the profile above will cover most 4-3-3 variations you'd look to run. The two other solo 6 DM roles (for me) are Regista and Halfback, but in most situations it's the DM(s). The exact profile you'll look for your DM(s) will vary a little based on the style of 4-3-3 you chose to run (possession/counter attack etc.). To touch on the regista I'm running at the moment: By moving the playmaker deeper (inspired by Koke's role in the 6 at Atletico and Guimaraes at Newcastle) I move the enforcer role to the BWM(s), who shares the responsibility w/ the MEZ(s) in another hard working profile. In deploying two 8's that can kick shins in ahead of the more technical 6, the pressing traps become well balanced and we're able to contest the ball higher up the pitch, bringing the PF(a) into the press and where getting stuck in is less likely to concede a dangerous free kick. In today's Champions League match vs Internazionale we saw Rodrygo de Paul and Marcos Llorente execute what I'm looking for from my 8's. The 6 still carries defensive responsibilities on top of the required playmaking, but if you can find an appropriate profile the role's passing range provides line breaking passes for fun.

Here's the PF I picked up after promotion for 12m after transitioning to the 4-3-3 from the 4-4-2: Ideally I would have liked him to have higher teamwork but other than that he was just about a perfect fit to lead the line in a defensive counter attack. In the second season in the Premier League that I just finished (2025-2026), he led the line as we barged our way to an FA Cup final! And promptly lost to Liverpool after defending resolutely for 95 minutes to a Cody Gakpo volley. I'm not bitter. On attributes, the pace and competent aerial ability are make or break for him to lead the line in my system. Off the ball and some anticipation are important for him to be an actual threat to score goals and his ability to contribute outside of that for the team is dictated by his aggression, bravery, teamwork(lol), workrate, natural fitness, stamina. After that I'd like a half decent holy trinity of dribbling, finishing, first touch but tbh I value the ability to get into goal scoring positions more than taking them (hence 10 composure). Off the ball is vital on a spearheading striker looking to run in behind, w/out this he will really struggle to score enough to be your solo 9. Consistency is key on a solo 9, if he is having a bad game you are significantly less of a threat to the opposition. Ended the season as our top goalscorer with 19 goals all competitions, a strong return in a counter attacking system (and one who is doing the dirty work). While he performed well he needed to do that for the tactic to work and to justify running a solo 9 to lead the attack. It's why I utilized a 4-4-2 earlier for the promotion charge, as I didn't have one striker I could trust enough for a high goal output. On a DM: This guy is too good to join my side, but my scouts brought him up as an option at one point and he's the perfect archetype of a DM(s) for a 4-3-3. I was lucky (I'm playing w/scout only signings) and they brought me his teammate Rafael Luis as well who is way better than everyone else in my squad for 4.3m (hence the regista introduction to midfield). On a DM(s) I want high mentals and a decent physical profile. Anticipation, Composure, Decisions and Concentration are particularly nice on these player's but being at least competent at things like aggression, bravery, teamwork, workrate, positioning, marking etc is important. His ability pass a little (even if it's short) is something to look at, as he is the focal point of link between your midfield and defence. On the physical profile, I'd prefer a bit more strength but other than that's he's pretty much ideal, lots of running, not too slow and some good jumping reach. Of course being rapid never hurt anyone, but I'd view it as a bonus. A combo of agi/balance or strength can help exert influence on opposition, although some strength is needed for aerial challenges. I wouldn't sign a DM(s) who is inconsistent, and the good personality on him is a big plus. Really it's the high mentals that are key for me in this position. It's a tricky find since he's got to be a little bit of a lot of things. You can always retrain a CB to be a DM in the French model! That's just the bones of the idea based on my current save, but scale the attributes up/down to whatever you're playing at and it still applies.