crusadertsar

Porto was always my favourite. Will have to go back to narrow diamond one day.

It depends on shape. If I remember correctly I used a more defensive shape, 4-5-1 in Swiss knife tactic (at least initially). And Pragmatic Football was modeled more after Mourinho's Real Madrid 4-2-3-1 which was one of his most furiously attacking teams (for Mourinho at least lol).

I don't think Mourinho really goes specifically after more direct passing. He is definitely more direct than someone like Pep but not overly direct like Route One style. Mourinho just goes with the best, most efficient way to win. It's Pragmatic Football, neither direct nor short passing. Tempo will also vary depending on team or opposition. Mourinho is one of the most flexible, adaptive coaches around.

Yup, for sure. But don't use "underlap left" in that case.

Yeah I know. I think it works really well now in compressing the defensive area. Before I didn't find it was working as well in FM21 and FM22

Both. You want to press hard and tackle hard but within a relatively small area. Compressed and compact but make life very difficult for opposition.

Because I would like to select which players I want to press and which to hold their shape. For example, for my centrebacks and DM I don't want to press more. Sort of like partial split press

Also your high pressing and defending instructions are extremely intensive and demanding for your players. I'm not sure whether that suits a team like Antwerp. And in 1st season too. I would even question whether playing like this would be a good idea for a team like Liverpool. Certainly not for 90 minutes. One of the big changes in FM23 (and I believe it was already partially implemented in FM22) is in how much aggressive defending like this drains the players stamina and fitness levels. Unlike before you really need to keep an eye on those, because players will not perform at their top if you tire them out by having them run around like headless bloody chickens. Also keep an eye on intensity bar in top right corner. And try to keep it out of the red.

What's your rationale on using relatively aggressive IWB role on left flank behind SV and Inside Forward? Not only are you needlessly narrow with not a single player providing width but also no real covering players as all three will be driving into space. That whole flank is ripe for opposition counters. Especially when they catch you while you pressing them high. No wonder that smaller sides are finishing clinically against you. You are kind of asking for it. Even in FM22 this tactic would have been risky. So nothing really changed. You still need to build well balanced tactics to be consistently successful.

Carrilero can be changed into B2B if you have a very well-rounded player. But be careful against tougher opposition. You might lose a bit of the defensive stability in place of more attacking dynamism. Sometimes it's one or the other. So you have to choose your battles based on the match. I just prefer my CM(a) to make more runs forward rather than the wingback. Hence the choice of "underlap". For now.

It could just as well be overlap. In both cases the individual mentality of the left wingback goes up and he makes more moves forward. Just not as much as a wingback on support would do. Anyway that's how it looks in ME and I tested both "underlap" and "overlap" instructions.

UPDATE: On the Low Block, Mid Block and and Everything In Between Here I just wanted to expand more on how I have my team (Sparta Prague) defend and attack. The two key areas of any tactic. The general aim is to have my players defending in a compact mid block. Sort of. I see it as more of hybrid between a low block and midblock. By congesting the midfield with their bodies (that 3-men midfield certainly helps) and being extremely dogged and determined in small area of space will hopefully increase our odds of regaining the ball and launching a successful counter. What is great about mid block is that it that our defending is not confined to the area immediately around our goal which risks giving too much room to the opposition to overwhelm us. This is the main goal of a traditional low block tactic. And neither is it too intense and stamina-draining to our own players like a high-pressing high block strategy would be. I always like a more balanced strategy which can be maintained for the whole 90 minutes rather than an extreme one which can tire your players out on both sides of the field. In the case of high press, no team can realistically expect to have its players chase the ball around and press for the whole match. Neither can they defend against constant opposition attacks if they are always stuck in the lowblock. Thus a strategy that is sort of a balance middle between the two blocks (low and high) is what I aim for. It has the best of both worlds. We defend very intensely, like in a high press, but in a much smaller area (and in my opinion where it counts). And then we rely on the pace and finishing ability of my attackers to perform lethal counters, a bit like in low-block except it can happen much more frequently and my players don't need to run as far up the field. Nevertheless with our lower line of engagement, the space for our attackers to run into should still be there. Much more so than in a high-pressing tactic. So all of my out-of-possessions instructions are geared to enhance the intensity of our defending withinin the compact block formed between our forwards and defenders. This zone starts just at the half-line and this is where I want my players to regain the ball. Neither low before our goal, nor too high in the opposition zone. This balance also allows us to maintain relatively low tactical intensity level. And closer look at our defending out of possession instructions Due to the absence of "mark tighter" team instruction in this year's version of FM, I have decided to relegate some important instruction to players individually. Regarding my attack, in-possession set up, it's very simple and intuitive. It's main focus is help us create a pp a r in the final third, especially via one on one situations. Hence the combination of attack and support duties. Basically I use wide forwards to cut inside (IW and Raumdeuter) in order to pin down the opposition central defenders. And at the same time my central striker (DLF on attack to give him higher positioning during counters) dropping and holding up the ball. This allows him to either exploit the space between the lines or occupy the opposition Defensive Midfielder. Finally, both of my wingbacks will give us more width on the flanks. Although left Wingback (Defend) will do so more conservatively than the more adventurous Wingback (S) on the right flank. So that is it! The latest version of the tactic. And now back to testing it with the Beta, before the final release when the full game comes out. Let me know what you think

For now I'm just trying to see how it works with the least possible instructions. Not to overcomplicate it even more. But it's probably a good shout to enhance the style of football. And you have to be careful and make sure that your defenders are capable of dealing with extra crosses.

When I posted that originally I didn't realize that individual instruction was there and did the same thing. What's a difference between the two? In my opinion it is better now to set it individually because in my tactics I would only want my centrebacks and DM to tight mark anyway. So I'm not "sheep" for SI as you put it but thanks for trying anyway

It's still there. Just need to set it individually for players. Always a better idea in my opinion

Yeah, wingback is one position that's a bit tricky to get right in this formation. I'm trying out the current set-up and it seems to be working alright. For now at least in the pre-season games. I know that Mourinho usually likes to play with one fullback/wingback that sits back and one that goes forward more. For the more attacking one I would not use one with attack duty because, whether fullback or wingback, he would be too obsessed with crossing at every opportunity and dribbling towards the byline. For that reason I find WB(S) on the right to be a good compromise. And you definitely need a more dynamic, proactive wingback role to play behind Raumdeuter (or Inside Forward) in order to give him adequate support. FB(s) with some individual traits like "get further forward" and "hug the line" could probably do just as well. But I'm looking to create a system that is less player specific and more universal to variety of teams. On the left, it's a little more tricky. I tried FB(s) and I found his behaviour to a bit too risky. So I was looking for a more conservative alternative without venturing into No nonsense fullback territory or fullback (defend). Wingback on Defend seems to have exactly what I am looking for. His "conservative" (due to overlap on left) individual mentality as opposed to "balanced" for right wingback is what makes all the difference. While testing I see a lot of smart behavior from this player. He tends to stay back more when out of possession. But when we get the ball back and go safely on attack he turns into a more adventurous role and isn't afraid to venture forward, cross and provide more width on the left flank. He just does it more carefully than a wingback on support would do. This makes for a good counter balance to my attacking CM (or mezzala if you have the player) on left side and more cautious carrilero to balance the wingback (support) on right.

It depends on the player you have. If you have someone with exceptional strength and jumping reach then why not use TM to take advantage of his best attributes? Both will hold up play. But DLF requires a bit more technical player than typical TM.

Makes more sense now! Thanks So now I think I would just remove "step up more". Just leave that part on default (no drop off either). And try to implement more of a split block by instructing specific individual players to press more and mark tighter.

That's what I was thinking 🤔 Really not sure as I am bit frustrated with lack of "tight marking". Don't know why they had to remove it. "Tight marking" was pretty much a requirement in all my previous Mourinho-inspired tactics. And when I read the description for "Step up" part of it sounds like old tight marking. But I'm definitely concerned about part that says that defenders will move up. That's definitely not what I'm looking for in my decence. I just want my defenders to really work hard and stick like dogs on opponents within their limited compact area. And not to act like headless chickens in your typical high-pressing overload attack tactic. Really don't know why they got rid of "tight marking". Maybe one of the tactics moderators like @Experienced Defender or @Rashidi or game devs who are in the know could shine more light on this.

Had that thought too. I'm experimenting with that whole flank still to be honest. But i did a few things to temper it. Just to try to make that wingback act a bit more defensively than his partner on the righty. In typical Mourinho style. Firstly, I told IW to stay wider. Then I added "overlap on the left" in order to increase the individual mentality of the left WB. It's not as high as right WB's mentality but should be high enough to make him venture forward more than a purely defensive wingback. Also the main player I use there has "get forward" trait. So overall the goal is have the left side act more conservatively and support the attacking right side as well as the CM(a). But i would still like left wingback to join the attack when he deems it safe enough. Hope this makes some sense.

Good point. I use pass into space as a more situational instruction. Usually for times when the other team is pressing us more and leaving more space behind their defence. Basically it's my way to enhance the chance of counter. But I wouldn't use it against all opposition because against teams that sit deeper it will just waste possession. And like you said we already employ more direct passing.

Let us get some of the basics of Mourinho's "Defence-First" Style out of the way first. Important word here being STYLE. The whole purpose of this thread is to try to recapture the essence of what made Mourinho's teams at Chelsea, Milan, Porto and Real Madrid so great. Not to recreate those tactics exactly. That is simply impossible because we don't have that exact collection of players as Mourinho did at those clubs. Even if you were to take control of a world-class club in FM23, possessing all the elite footballers, any attempt at creating 2005 Chelsea with those players would ring false. Perhaps at best leading to a close emulation but not an actual recreation. Not without using accurate retro database at least. So really this is all about creating a tactic that is solid on its own merits but with strong influence from the work of the Special One. Basically, this is about creating a well-balanced, both defensively and offensively, tactic that excels at counter-attacking at pace on the wings and defending as a compact unit through the middle. The very foundations of any Mourinho formation. Maintaining a strong 3-men midfield to gain a numerical advantage over your opponent and force their players and the ball out wide from where precise counter-attacks can be started by your incisive and quick inside forwards. Also, it would not be a Mourinho-inspired tactic without a strong hold-up play from a strong beast of a central striker. Someone in the mold of Didier Drogba or Diego Costa would be required to hold up the ball and slow down the attack, allowing time for his teammates to catch up with play. And the inspiration from the formation above? Something like the formation below perhaps. Again the general idea is to present the opponent with a strong defence and packed midfield in order to end their attack early, regain the ball quickly and then to release it towards the attacking trident of two wide attackers and central striker. Mourinho is very flexible in how he sets up his team. He never sticks with one single formation. Even during his 1st tenure at Chelsea (2004-2007) he interspersed 4-3-3 with a 4-2-3-1 depending on the personnel at hand. Jose is definitely one to adapt his tactics to the players he is managing at the moment. Yet, Mourinho's main tactical principles remain constant no matter which team he manages. 1) Strong and Disciplined Defending that is performed by a collective, compact unit of midfield and defence. For this reason, the distance between the two must be optimally close when out of possession. And in the game one of the best ways to do this is my combing "Low Block" with "Standard Defensive Line". Or "Mid Block" with "High Defensive Line. But again it depends on the quality of your players. If I was a world-class team like Chelsea, blessed with fast and mentally-strong centrebacks then maybe I would go with the latter. But starting out with Sparta Prague, I decided to settle for more conservative approach. At least at the beginning. Of course, defending in a compact, deep block does not mean that we will defend passively. Very far from. In typical Mourinho fashion, defenders will need to put up a tough obstacle for opposition attackers. That is mark them tightly (Step Up More) and not be afraid to tackle them hard (Get Stuck In). All in an effort to funnel the opponents into wider areas where our attackers have an advantage in speed and technique tp perform precise counters. 2) Using fast counters as the MAIN weapon for attacking. Defend Pragmatically, Regain the ball with a Purpose and Attack with Precision. The Three Ps of Defence-First Tactic. And how they translate into the game and my chosen roles is where I will go next. Mind you, this is all still in the early theoretical phase so some of those roles and instructions you see above might change. Nevertheless after a first few matches, I am starting to see some pretty positive results while using the above set-up. But hopefully any future discussion in this thread can help me iron out the tactical kinks. I will try to maintain regular updates for this interest in seeing how this tactic develops. More coming soon ...

To tell you the truth what I am about to write about is not anything new or groundbreaking. I had a lot of fun emulating Mourinho-style tactics in both FM21 and FM22. With both 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 shapes. And with various degrees of success. If you would like to read about endless tactical experimentation and my endless analysis of both formations then be my guest. I warned you : I doubt that I can add anything more constructive to either of those discussions. But given some interesting changes to how defending and out-of-possession instructions are handled in FM23 I think it makes it worthwhile to revisit Mourinho-inspired 4-3-3 and see how Defensively-responsible Pragmatic football (aka "Mourinhoball") can have a more prominent place in the game. I have a confession to make. I am a big, BIG Ted Lasso fan. I always gravitate to rooting for the underdog and generally go against the grain of the majority-s. Maybe it is my stubborn Ukrainian nature. The part of me that just wants desperately to try to stick it to the Man. Or try to stand-up for the little guy. Beat the mainstream! Yells the hipster inside me. Likewise in FM, I am always mildly irritated by the overwhelming popularity of Gegenpress Football. Seemingly 9/10 tactics in the tactics sharing forum are some kind of Gegenpress-style tactic. In the last few versions of the game it is no secret that high pressing, high-intensity, "balls to the wall" attacking football started to seem like the only way to play. If you wanted to have any success that is. Even if it meant exploiting some elements of game's ME or AI. Mind you, I was guilty of my own foray into something very close to that during my Total Football period. It wasn't quite the switch to the Dark Side, but it was damn close. Only Johan Cruyff's ghost saved me from Total Destruction. Dankjewel Jezus Christus! Anyway, enough philosophizing. Why exactly I decided to restart this discussion on the merits of Defence-First Football (mind you not DEFENSIVE football but more on that soon) is to try to highlight some new and interesting tactical tools in the expended toolset of FM23. Tools that hopefully overtime will allow other tactical masterminds in the community to build tactics to make even The Special One proud. But until that happens you can have my meandering attempts at tactical tinkering to fill your time. Hopefully it can inspire you to see that the strongest possible attack is not always the best way to the title. There is The Mourinho Way. More (actual tactics ) coming soon ...

Something FM23 coming soon