Help refine my 4231 DM/AM please

[Marabak]

Hi all. Only got FM24 a short while ago, having stuck with FM22 with a fun save for a while. I dived in with a youthful Chelsea side and somehow managed to sneak both the Premier League on 81 pts (1pt ahead of Liverpool and 2pts ahead of City), and FA Cup on penalties in my first season, both far ahead of schedule.

My tactic is attached. My tactical intent was to play fun, attacking football, on the front foot and building up fast whilst keeping control (not just hoofing it up the pitch). I want to put the opponent under pressure when they have the ball, squeezing high and pressing quite a bit (aggressive but not gung-ho). individual-wise, I want my RB to be an attacking force and provide width on the right, with the winger on the opposite side stretching the play similarly (this is important as they are pretty much the only player on the left with width). With a lone striker, I wanted support to come from the AM and the IF. For the two deeper midfielders, one is an anchor to hold position and protect the defence/RB space, with the other allowed to step up and help with play and recycling possession, with the LB stepping into the DM position to provide a "box" of 4 defenders when attacking and help prevent counter-attacks.

Obviously, I can't complain too much with winning the league last year, but towards the end of the season, a few results started going away from me and I chickened out/reverted to my default 433 to squeak over the line (which was as much a result of shock results elsewhere as me being particularly amazing). I went back to this 4231 for this season, but my start has been pretty poor, with 4 losses in my first 5, conceding 7 and only scoring 4. Admittedly, I've played Liverpool, Arsenal and Man U in those fixtures - only win being 2:0 at home against Man U, but also losing 1:0 away to Fulham following James' red card and 2:1 at home to Everton).

So, I was wondering if this great hive mind of a forum had any tips or refinements I could use or that I've not considered to stop this run turning into something more disastrous.

Cheers.

[Poison]

It seems like it's too attacking for my taste (not that it's a bad thing), the tactic probably lacks support in the left side I think. It seems like Lukaku is terrible, maybe make him a TF(A) or even a TF(su) to not even attempt efforts but bring others into play? Not a fan of natural footed inside forward (Jackson) , make him a winger(su), he'll still cut enough if needed. Anchor at Caicedo seems like a waste for his physicals, make him a traditional DM? Your keeper is lacking in decisions according to FM, so try him as SK-d so he'll be more cautious. Mydruk should cut inside a lot, iw-su??? Also if you keep Callagher (or Nkunku) at support he will link up with everyone better, including Lukaku who seems isolated with anyone dribbling on attack around him. So either make a TM-su and AM-att or a TN-A and AM-su combo (the latter would be my preference). Finally, make Disasi a nncb, I believe that'll vastly improve defense, he's not a progressive style defender. That's what I would change.

Edited April 7 by Poison

[thizaum]

On 07/04/2024 at 12:55, Marabak said:

Hi all. Only got FM24 a short while ago, having stuck with FM22 with a fun save for a while. I dived in with a youthful Chelsea side and somehow managed to sneak both the Premier League on 81 pts (1pt ahead of Liverpool and 2pts ahead of City), and FA Cup on penalties in my first season, both far ahead of schedule.

My tactic is attached. My tactical intent was to play fun, attacking football, on the front foot and building up fast whilst keeping control (not just hoofing it up the pitch). I want to put the opponent under pressure when they have the ball, squeezing high and pressing quite a bit (aggressive but not gung-ho). individual-wise, I want my RB to be an attacking force and provide width on the right, with the winger on the opposite side stretching the play similarly (this is important as they are pretty much the only player on the left with width). With a lone striker, I wanted support to come from the AM and the IF. For the two deeper midfielders, one is an anchor to hold position and protect the defense/RB space, with the other allowed to step up and help with play and recycling possession, with the LB stepping into the DM position to provide a "box" of 4 defenders when attacking and help prevent counter-attacks.

Obviously, I can't complain too much with winning the league last year, but towards the end of the season, a few results started going away from me and I chickened out/reverted to my default 433 to squeak over the line (which was as much a result of shock results elsewhere as me being particularly amazing). I went back to this 4231 for this season, but my start has been pretty poor, with 4 losses in my first 5, conceding 7 and only scoring 4. Admittedly, I've played Liverpool, Arsenal and Man U in those fixtures - only win being 2:0 at home against Man U, but also losing 1:0 away to Fulham following James' red card and 2:1 at home to Everton).

So, I was wondering if this great hive mind of a forum had any tips or refinements I could use or that I've not considered to stop this run turning into something more disastrous.

Cheers.

Hey dude,

I'm currently in the 3rd season of my save and using the same formation with some overachieving. Granted, I'm playing a lower league team, so take that into consideration.

I agree with what @Poison said, but let me share some things that I would check (that worked for me), especially considering the analysis (0 positive, several negatives)

 

1. Check how many crosses you have per match in comparison with the rest of the league and the completion%. That can be mentioned in the monthly analysis, but you can also check it in the League Stats, apart from watching that closely during the matches. In my case, I had by far the highest number of crosses and an average % (so, bad idea). I did 2 things to improve this: change both WBs to FBs (same duties as yours) and I moved the slider 1 step to narrower in team width (this one is arguable depending on how you want to play). In any case, the high number of crosses was because the team was always seeing the best option to play wide and the only play after that was to cross. I started to score more goals and concede fewer (better coverage) after the change.

2. Check how many passes your AM has in a match in comparison with the wingers and whether he is underachieving. If he has much fewer, it's a problem. Ideally he should has as many or even more. The usual cause for this is playing a too high tempo, so lowering tempo/mentality would improve it.

3. I can't see Jackson's role, but what's the plan for having both AM(a) and AF(a)? These are both scorers and no-one is creating. First of all, you need to think which of two should be creating and which should be scoring (I'm guessing Lukaku). In this case, you should change the AM to AM(s), EG, AP(s or a) or Treq. All these are "more creators" than AM(a).

4. Why do you have Play out of Defense? If I'm not mistaken, POOD affects the high tempo you want to play and moves everyone deeper. Try removing it while keeping distribute to centre backs (I actually prefer distributing it to full backs) and see if what you wanted still happens. I think it will.

5. Why are you Working Ball into Box? I think it's because of 1, 2 and 3. Try removing it (while doing the rest) to see what happens.

6. I think there's a second step of this discussion: mentality + tempo + passing. I think you could change to Standard and change Caicedo's role and duty. But maybe this could be later on after 1-5 as I'm not fully sure it's needed due to the team's strength (although I wonder how you'd play against L'pool or City).

[Aesorian]

On 07/04/2024 at 11:55, Marabak said:

 

 

The suggestions I'd try are:

 * Change Gallagher to AM(S) with either Roam From Position or Moves into Channels (Maybe even both) as you've got 4 players with Get Futher Forward hardcoded into them so your entire forward line turns and attacks the box as soon as you win the ball back meaning your transition could be shut down, you could also try Mudryk as a WNG(S) or switching to a Forward who can drop deeper and Support (CF(S) Could be a good Option)

* Speaking of Mudryk, he's a Right Footer (Only Reasonable on his left) with the Cuts Inside from Both Wings trait so he might not be giving you enough Width, so it might be worth trying Chilwell on WB(S) or swap him out for Nkuku or Madueke who have better left feet and don't cut inside

* Change Caicedo to a DM(D) Still does everything that you want from a Anchor, but is more willing to get involved in the build-up

* Change Gusto to a FB(A) as CWB(A) have Roam from Position Hardcoded in, FB(A) will still get forward agressivley and more importantly stay wider while not leaving you exposed on the right (Could also do a WB(A) - I've just had more experience with a FB(A))

* Remove Play Out of Defence and replace it with Distribute to Centerbacks

* Either remove Work Ball Into Box or try adding Be More Expressive/Lowering your Tempo - Work Ball into Box slows attacks down so either allowing your forwards to ignore the instruction and be more expressive or lowering the Tempo a little so that theres no change could help

[WhiteElf]

See my tactic, it definitely works, I took 4th place in the Premier League in the first season, then I had it a little easier because I bought better players. In the 3rd season, I won the UEFA Cup. I sometimes use CWB on the right side because I attack the penalty area more often. Set IFs, once he gets along with the team and learns tactics, he will be lethal.

https://ibb.co/4JzNdtc

[Marabak]

Apologies for the delay in replying, some personal stuff came up and I've not had much free time recently. Some good stuff in this thread for me to think about, so I'll ponder it and do some digging into my stats etc. and get back to you all soon hopefully

[Marabak]

So, I managed to get some time to tweak a few things and I've adjusted to the following tactic, taking on board some of the comments here and results have improved somewhat (you can probably guess where I asked for advice last time, and apart from a small hiccup in December, results have been decent. Not a huge difference in personnel, apart from Lukaku going to Saudi Arabia in Jan and bringing in a few promising younger players. I've lost too much ground in the league already, but I'm chasing down the CL places and doing well in both the FA cup and CL.

Main differences have been

• Less pressing and sitting back a little bit. I found that I was getting bypassed quite easily with 1-2s and conceding too regularly from holes appearing in my defence, so I've dropped the aggressiveness of my press slightly and stopped stepping up. This has made my much more solid at the back
• Stopped intentionally playing to the CB and out from the back, giving my team a bit more variability in playing out. Having a BPD still means that my keeper plays it out to the CD anyway quite a lot
• FB(A) instead of WB(A) which may have contributed to me being a bit more defensively solid, with no real impact going forward either
• AM(S) instead of AM(A) although this area is still a weakness, with few assists or goals coming from this area, regardless who I play here. Rarely gets a good rating either

 

[thizaum]

Hey @Mabarak, I hope all is well in the personal side.

Some comments about your new tactic:

- I don't think you need both left back and DM with Defend duty under Balanced. For sure it could be just one (whichever), or even none. But if you decide on DM-s, make sure you add the "hold position" PI.

- As for the AM, now you could try tweaking with PIs (not just for him, but wingers and SV as well). Roam from position, hold the ball, more creative passes are all good options. Also, you could try using a different role (like AP-s or AP-a).

- I'd also try the right winger as IW-s or IW-a instead of IF.

- Finally, you could also fine tune width and short-long passes. I don't think it's bad how you have your TIs, just run some tests and see what happens vs what you want to happen.