Need help with a 433

HanziZoloman · February 16

Hi guys, it's amazing how much help I got from you and now I need to reach out again. I am heavily struggling with my YAC (Youth Academy Challenge) Team Billericay again. We are playing League One at the moment. Almost the same Squad played Championship two years ago but after the relegation we are fighting relegation in EFL One again instead of competing for a returning promotion for Championship.

The question is mainly how to find a winning formula in a 433 as we are playing that kind of shape since years. I want to build a midfield trio which makes it more difficult to break the team. Mainly we have a lot of possession (3rd in league) but fail to bring our really fast (and mainly left footed) Wingplayers into good position. Our lone striker is struggling to get involved into the play and has few shots on target. I have a fast one and a slow one. The slow one is strong and can finish, he plays with "back to goal". The fast one is exceptional fast but can't finish too well (6) but he is big and can jump.

The best player is the AP(S) who stands out (you'll see it down here, Loric Kalala).

I show you my tactic here:

Here you'll see my central midfielders which are causing my headaches. I used to have a possession heavy approach but with the recent downslide over two years I gave it up.

I hope for some help and inspiration how to get this ship sailing again. I feel like I tried everything. Oftentimes tweaking and tweaking with no effort and then end up changing a lot. The change usually leads into 1 or 2 good games and then it starts all over again.

The opponents tend to sit back and wait for mistakes in our build up into midfield the hit a counter with fast players. sometimes they press our defenders.

The keeper is a nice ball player with nice first touch and passing but he is a decent thrower and kicker as well.

Edited February 16 by HanziZoloman

NineCloudNine · February 16

You have no penetration from midfield or the flanks. Your front three will be getting isolated and outnumbered. I’d suggest giving your CM an attack duty and consider telling the RWB to get forward more.

If you want to distribute to CBs then one of them should ideally be a BPD. Or remove that instruction and let your keeper vary the distribution.

Pass into space and work ball into box also greatly restrict your players’ options. I personally dislike both instructions for that reason.

Edited February 16 by NineCloudNine

Cloud9 · February 17

15 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Hi guys, it's amazing how much help I got from you and now I need to reach out again. I am heavily struggling with my YAC (Youth Academy Challenge) Team Billericay again. We are playing League One at the moment. Almost the same Squad played Championship two years ago but after the relegation we are fighting relegation in EFL One again instead of competing for a returning promotion for Championship.

The question is mainly how to find a winning formula in a 433 as we are playing that kind of shape since years. I want to build a midfield trio which makes it more difficult to break the team. Mainly we have a lot of possession (3rd in league) but fail to bring our really fast (and mainly left footed) Wingplayers into good position. Our lone striker is struggling to get involved into the play and has few shots on target. I have a fast one and a slow one. The slow one is strong and can finish, he plays with "back to goal". The fast one is exceptional fast but can't finish too well (6) but he is big and can jump.

The best player is the AP(S) who stands out (you'll see it down here, Loric Kalala).

I show you my tactic here:

Here you'll see my central midfielders which are causing my headaches. I used to have a possession heavy approach but with the recent downslide over two years I gave it up.

I hope for some help and inspiration how to get this ship sailing again. I feel like I tried everything. Oftentimes tweaking and tweaking with no effort and then end up changing a lot. The change usually leads into 1 or 2 good games and then it starts all over again.

The opponents tend to sit back and wait for mistakes in our build up into midfield the hit a counter with fast players. sometimes they press our defenders.

The keeper is a nice ball player with nice first touch and passing but he is a decent thrower and kicker as well.

Looks like you've got a real standout player in Kalala there. I'd try to build around him with a 4-2-3-1.

He's got excellent off the ball so sticking him in the 10 with roam position could get the best out of him since he doesn't offer a goal threat. Since he's not quickest, having him a bit closer to goal will help.

I'd try to bring in a DM with height to shore up the pivot after that.

ChaosReiter · February 17

Wait, year 2060? You have all my respect sir.

HanziZoloman · February 17

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Cloud9:

I'd try to bring in a DM with height to shore up the pivot after that.

Well I am dependent on what comes through, for a while I‘ll just have those players. There is a CB who can also play DM he might do the job. I am in a youth only save.

What about the other players? You like anyone in a DM role, anyone you can not imagine as helpful?
I am a bit blind at that moment and it feels just right to explore those players more with someone else.

Thanks for the advice, I am failing to get the best out of Kalala and your suggestions sound helpful. Would you explore a bit more how you can imagine him and what goes around him in this 10 spot?

@NineCloudNine thanks for your advice too. I feared that you would say that, it’s the lack of speed which makes me cautious with too much running roles.

Edited February 17 by HanziZoloman

Cloud9 · February 17

1 hour ago, HanziZoloman said:

Well I am dependent on what comes through, for a while I‘ll just have those players. There is a CB who can also play DM he might do the job. I am in a youth only save.

What about the other players? You like anyone in a DM role, anyone you can not imagine as helpful?
I am a bit blind at that moment and it feels just right to explore those players more with someone else.

Thanks for the advice, I am failing to get the best out of Kalala and your suggestions sound helpful. Would you explore a bit more how you can imagine him and what goes around him in this 10 spot?

@NineCloudNine thanks for your advice too. I feared that you would say that, it’s the lack of speed which makes me cautious with too much running roles.

Ahh didn't see that bit. Retraining a CB to be played as a DM would be excellent. You could pair the retrained CB w/ Ryan McCormick and have a pretty solid pivot for Kalala to go perform in front of.

On Kalala himself, I'm usually not a huge fan of a 4-2-3-1 but it's an excellent formation if you've got a clear star to build around. Basically the double pivot provides a platform to give Kalala a free role, which is tricky to do in a 4-3-3. Usually I try a 4-3-3 (often transitioning from a 4-4-2) in a save where I have more capable players.

I've liked an AMC(a) + roam position for these kind of situations (esp. due to his mentals / off the ball). I prefer blank roles like this for player's with substantial deficiencies, where I can customize their PIs a bit more.
- 17 off the ball, 15 composure + 13 jumping reach means your guy can score a lot aerially as well. 17 off the ball is probably the best of any player in your division, so that can be quite devastating to lean into.
In his case you can ask him to dribble less, as he lacks the ability / pace to take on opponents 1v1.

What's your front 3 look like? Do you need more goal threat or more creativity?

That will determine the direction to develop Kalala (aerial goal scoring ability or creative output). If you want him to score goals I'd look to train his physicals (particularly a little bit of acceleration). If he's to be the creative outlet: Passing, Technique, & Vision.
I read the bit about the quick wingers, that will pair excellently with a taller, less mobile 10. I'd also prefer a quicker solo striker to a slow one on a midblock.
I'd avoid adding more traits unless they really suit a player's limitations, they will take away from key developmental time and can hamper your tactic down the line.

Edited February 17 by Cloud9

HanziZoloman · February 17

@Cloud9 I see you helping a lot of people here with your advice. Thanks it’s so much fun to discuss things here and get the help.
It‘s sometimes difficult for me to imagine a players pathway, like you did with Kalala. He is the most creative,but I have an IF(S) with Flair 18 he‘s unpredictably for opponents and scores the most goals actually. On the left I have more out and out Wingers but really fast ones. Looks like the Creative option for Kalala but I‘d like the threat from his jumping as well. That’s a nice touch and you usually don’t get this combination often.

I've put on a first draw of a 4231 (which is also not my favorite)

Kalala is in the center of everything, for penetration is a W(A), PF(A) and of course the creator/ scorer IF(S)

Double pivot with a DM(D) and DM(S) which could changed into a VOL(S) (maybe switching the DM's ?) The VOL could be Aron or Chris Burness (?)

Left side a WB(D) or plain FB(S) (I don't have good players on that side) and a WB(S) to overlap on the right. I don't have the WB for an (A) duty.

I'll add a picture of the DM(D) former CB:

We play a lot better if we have the ball and a narrow shape with short passing:

W(A) AF(A) AM(A) all attacking the box. IF(S) create and score, VOL pushes into AM beside the Winger, the FB(S) supports build up and protects the left side. WB(S) overlaps.

HB drops deep and builds a 3ATB with the CB.

Ok, that's a first one. Any suggestions?

Edited February 17 by HanziZoloman

Cloud9 · February 18

21 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

@Cloud9 I see you helping a lot of people here with your advice. Thanks it’s so much fun to discuss things here and get the help.
It‘s sometimes difficult for me to imagine a players pathway, like you did with Kalala. He is the most creative,but I have an IF(S) with Flair 18 he‘s unpredictably for opponents and scores the most goals actually. On the left I have more out and out Wingers but really fast ones. Looks like the Creative option for Kalala but I‘d like the threat from his jumping as well. That’s a nice touch and you usually don’t get this combination often.

I've put on a first draw of a 4231 (which is also not my favorite)

Kalala is in the center of everything, for penetration is a W(A), PF(A) and of course the creator/ scorer IF(S)

Double pivot with a DM(D) and DM(S) which could changed into a VOL(S) (maybe switching the DM's ?) The VOL could be Aron or Chris Burness (?)

Left side a WB(D) or plain FB(S) (I don't have good players on that side) and a WB(S) to overlap on the right. I don't have the WB for an (A) duty.

I'll add a picture of the DM(D) former CB:

We play a lot better if we have the ball and a narrow shape with short passing:

W(A) AF(A) AM(A) all attacking the box. IF(S) create and score, VOL pushes into AM beside the Winger, the FB(S) supports build up and protects the left side. WB(S) overlaps.

HB drops deep and builds a 3ATB with the CB.

Ok, that's a first one. Any suggestions?

No problem, happy to help out

So after taking a look at the two tactics, if you've got the IF scoring a lot + a spearheading forward in the 9, I might be interested in gearing Kalala more towards a playmaker profile. If you stick him on AP(s) with roam behind the attack duty striker, the playmaker tag will help him serve as a ball magnet. This does sacrifice the goal scoring potential of his off the ball / height, but since you're playing on a midblock he may struggle to get into enough goal scoring opportunities anyways. He can still offer some good goal threat from set pieces, which you might think of playing for. The lack of mobility on the double pivot would make it difficult to push the lines higher where his height would lead to more goal scoring options as an AMC. Individualized training on his passing can go a long way into turning him into a more technical playmaker (but his mentals are super for a player who will dictate a lot your play).

I'd also increase your passing directness by a notch, Kalala will be a roaming ball magnet capable of bringing the ball down from a more direct pass. Your defensive third doesn't have too many player's capable of progressing the ball via roles, so that can help you prevent getting pinned back which can happen on a mid block from time to time.
Hold shape can be tricky in a midblock, I think you want to reserve the option for a counter if it's on (particularly with a quick winger). Simply leaving that TI blank could help make things a bit more dynamic.
Dropping the trigger press a notch could be helpful as well. I'd recommend that anyways in a midblock approach, but specifically with a less explosive midfield you'll want to be more selective about when you go to win the ball back.

On roles for the pivot, I think I'd prefer the first tactic's options to the second ones. DM(d) + DM(s) is a good utility option, although two DM(s) w/one hold position would be my personal preference for a higher passing option.

I think the SV role could combine nicely with Kalala as an AP, but the profile of McCormick is fairly limited and I think he lacks the pace/off the ball to charge up the pitch. DM(s) without holding position is what I'd look for on him. He's dependable but I wouldn't ask too much of him.
On the Halfback role, I'm not sure about this role in a double pivot on FM24. I was a big fan of the combo on FM23 where the pivot prevented him from dropping back and he acted as an aggressive ball playing DM/sweeper. In my limited testing w the role in a pivot in the new ME, things ended up feeling a little lopsided/awkward (just something to keep an eye on as you play).
- More importantly for the tactic is that the HB is a pretty demanding role in terms of attributes. The player utilizes strong mentals/physicality and a decent passing range. Pott is pretty slow and I would change his PIs to pass it shorter if possible, so I'd recommend to just use his him for his height in the pivot. A DM(s) w/ hold position would keep things simple for him as well.
- His height also gives you the option to trap outside in specific games where's its advantageous, as the DM partnership will be better equipped to deal with crosses played in. Utilizing pressing traps on mid blocks when possible can make a big difference throughout your season, this year especially.
On AF vs PF, the PF can help you with executing your traps as well. I'd prefer the combination of the PF leading the line w/ the wide IF(s). He'll also help to screen Kalala which will be important.

Aside from those changes I think things look good. I like the balanced approach / mentality and I think it's great that you're playing with all academy players. Whenever I've got more limited player's I'd recommend doing quite a bit in the passing meters of the squad, which can help you preserve possession a bit more efficiently and get the ball to Kalala quickly.

HanziZoloman · February 18

Wow @Cloud9 that’s a lot of food for thought and a lot to try out, all your points make sense to me, especially your notes about the roles. I still don‘t get it right or demanding too much from my players.

Would you say something about the mentioned guys like Chris Boness, Aron Churchus and Niko Leinonen?

also which one would you prefere for a substitute for Kalala?

wait, there’s one in the academy coming through who is too slow for the wings. I think I got one

Edit: we‘re getting punished. When I am playing like this, it makes complete sense, it’s congruent to the strengths of the team but it’s not working (yet). While I‘d gained promotion to championship with a dominating possession game. FM is just some crazy kind of game.

Edit II: Okay your implementations seem to pay off dividends now after some games and a bit tweaking. @Cloud9 it was exceptional helpful, thank you. We got a small turnaround now with three wins in a row, something we hadn't had for a while and playing a lot more stable. The players who are excelling most under your new instructions are IF(S) who is scoring even more and gets into more promising positions more often. And Ryan McCormick which you pointed out aus the DM(S) is is often at the center of everything dictating the game a bit from behind.

a nice extra was his goal of the month.

sadly Loric Kalala still has his difficulties. He is still young and has been playing a bit too much lately, I'll try to give him some games off and then try again.

Edited February 18 by HanziZoloman

Cloud9 · February 19

13 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Wow @Cloud9 that’s a lot of food for thought and a lot to try out, all your points make sense to me, especially your notes about the roles. I still don‘t get it right or demanding too much from my players.

Would you say something about the mentioned guys like Chris Boness, Aron Churchus and Niko Leinonen?

also which one would you prefere for a substitute for Kalala?

wait, there’s one in the academy coming through who is too slow for the wings. I think I got one

Edit: we‘re getting punished. When I am playing like this, it makes complete sense, it’s congruent to the strengths of the team but it’s not working (yet). While I‘d gained promotion to championship with a dominating possession game. FM is just some crazy kind of game.

Edit II: Okay your implementations seem to pay off dividends now after some games and a bit tweaking. @Cloud9 it was exceptional helpful, thank you. We got a small turnaround now with three wins in a row, something we hadn't had for a while and playing a lot more stable. The players who are excelling most under your new instructions are IF(S) who is scoring even more and gets into more promising positions more often. And Ryan McCormick which you pointed out aus the DM(S) is is often at the center of everything dictating the game a bit from behind.

a nice extra was his goal of the month.

sadly Loric Kalala still has his difficulties. He is still young and has been playing a bit too much lately, I'll try to give him some games off and then try again.

Glad to hear things turned around a bit ! Cool to see McCormick get that goal of the month.

On the other player's, they are all decent squad options but are really pretty limited:

Niko - squad player to control games could come off the bench. The game suggests DLP(s) which I agree with, but basically Churches is a better option to him. Balanced personality isn't great.
Boness - I think this guy is okay. Again a decent sub option for a bit of running. His best qualities are his combination of Agility/Balance which serve as a nice substitute for strength. I'd view him as a BWM type profile who can run around and do a bit of damage. Fairly professional is a good personality which will help him.
Churchus - I like this guy. A decent profile of passing and running with some strong mentals in there. I'd say he could be a strong DLP(s) or CM(s). Out of the player's we've looked out here, he's a step up in quality. Kalala will need a lot of rest and this guy can come in to control a game, see it out, or put in a shift with some running. Resolute is brilliant. He's got the potential to start some games for you in the pivot where you want some more technical ability.
Walsh - looks like a decent body to come in off the bench and do some running / tackling. Similar mould to Boness, I'm really not crazy about some of his mentals though.

The one thing I can't see on these guys is their consistency, if they're in the red that can be a real issue for me.

How are your youth recruitment/facilities/staff? Making sure you've got everything ship shape behind the scenes may be necessary to pushing on into the premier league. The squad is fairly limited, and while promotion to the Championship is possible once there that's a huge step up. Starting to generate a higher caliber of player will be important to compete there.

HanziZoloman · February 19

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Cloud9:

Glad to hear things turned around a bit ! Cool to see McCormick get that goal of the month.

On the other player's, they are all decent squad options but are really pretty limited:

Niko - squad player to control games could come off the bench. The game suggests DLP(s) which I agree with, but basically Churches is a better option to him. Balanced personality isn't great.

Boness - I think this guy is okay. Again a decent sub option for a bit of running. His best qualities are his combination of Agility/Balance which serve as a nice substitute for strength. I'd view him as a BWM type profile who can run around and do a bit of damage. Fairly professional is a good personality which will help him.

Churchus - I like this guy. A decent profile of passing and running with some strong mentals in there. I'd say he could be a strong DLP(s) or CM(s). Out of the player's we've looked out here, he's a step up in quality. Kalala will need a lot of rest and this guy can come in to control a game, see it out, or put in a shift with some running. Resolute is brilliant. He's got the potential to start some games for you in the pivot where you want some more technical ability.

Walsh - looks like a decent body to come in off the bench and do some running / tackling. Similar mould to Boness, I'm really not crazy about some of his mentals though.

The one thing I can't see on these guys is their consistency, if they're in the red that can be a real issue for me.

How are your youth recruitment/facilities/staff? Making sure you've got everything ship shape behind the scenes may be necessary to pushing on into the premier league. The squad is fairly limited, and while promotion to the Championship is possible once there that's a huge step up. Starting to generate a higher caliber of player will be important to compete there.

Thanks for going through the list with me, it's good help and needed. All of them already played Championship two years ago

The facilities are of course important and I try and get every upgrade possible. Sadly we are deep red as we only have a 9k seater/ stands and piling losses every month but develop in a slow pace. Just recently we upgraded training facilities.

Results: Your suggestions have a huge impact, we have positive results for 18 games now, winning 10 drawing 3 and losing 5, which gave us a solid midtable position in December. Thank you! Also the kind of football we are playing looks good again.

Consistency:

Niko - consistent performer (that's why he has an ! to his name)

Chris - needs to work on c.

Ryan - (!) consistent

Aron - (!!) consistent and enjoying big matches (he is already at his peak (***)

I want to show you some other players and hope you'll have fun helping out:

Conor is maybe even more suited for the holding DM role (?)

Spoiler

Ridvan looks like he can play for Loric Kasala

I try to play him as often as possible. He has the same weaknesses (dribbling and speed) but of course is miles away from the mentals. Kalala has a contract of 2 years I don't know if he will sign another one. He didn't had any significant offers yet but the day will come. I also have another youngster out on loan for this position a 17 year old.

Spoiler

I mainly have left footers which is why the W(A) is on the left and the IF(S) is on the right but I also have two decent right footed Wingman, this one and an even younger one (19) who are not getting enough game time. How could I implement those right footers in the Tactic? Zerguinho has proven that he can be of help in the past. In the recent matches I played him as PF(A) bvecause of injuries and international caps of the starters. He did ok without any standouts except for the late winner in the FA Cup.

Spoiler

As Jack Walsh has to expect a significant drop in gametime after the changes I loaned him out

Thanks in advanced!

All insights are well implemented into my thoughts and game.

Edited February 19 by HanziZoloman

HanziZoloman · February 19

Here is another one I'd like you to give some comments:

Vashon is currently out on loan at Doncaster, he has still some work in front of him but there are some players pushing after Loric Kalala and adding the AM position gives them a place.

Cloud9 · February 19

2 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Thanks for going through the list with me, it's good help and needed. All of them already played Championship two years ago

The facilities are of course important and I try and get every upgrade possible. Sadly we are deep red as we only have a 9k seater/ stands and piling losses every month but develop in a slow pace. Just recently we upgraded training facilities.

Results: Your suggestions have a huge impact, we have positive results for 18 games now, winning 10 drawing 3 and losing 5, which gave us a solid midtable position in December. Thank you! Also the kind of football we are playing looks good again.

Consistency:

Niko - consistent performer (that's why he has an ! to his name)

Chris - needs to work on c.

Ryan - (!) consistent

Aron - (!!) consistent and enjoying big matches (he is already at his peak (***)

I want to show you some other players and hope you'll have fun helping out:

Conor is maybe even more suited for the holding DM role (?)

Reveal hidden contents

Ridvan looks like he can play for Loric Kasala

I try to play him as often as possible. He has the same weaknesses (dribbling and speed) but of course is miles away from the mentals. Kalala has a contract of 2 years I don't know if he will sign another one. He didn't had any significant offers yet but the day will come. I also have another youngster out on loan for this position a 17 year old.

Reveal hidden contents

I mainly have left footers which is why the W(A) is on the left and the IF(S) is on the right but I also have two decent right footed Wingman, this one and an even younger one (19) who are not getting enough game time. How could I implement those right footers in the Tactic? Zerguinho has proven that he can be of help in the past. In the recent matches I played him as PF(A) bvecause of injuries and international caps of the starters. He did ok without any standouts except for the late winner in the FA Cup.

Reveal hidden contents

As Jack Walsh has to expect a significant drop in gametime after the changes I loaned him out

Thanks in advanced!

All insights are well implemented into my thoughts and game.

O'Reily looks like a quality player for your squad. Is he part of your starter center back pairing? If not, then I'd say he's a clear upgrade on either player in the current pivot.

Rivdan looks like the bones of a solid addition to the squad! He will need to come on a little first though.
Zerguinho I'm not sure about. He provides some much needed pace to the frontline. Could be a decent poacher option off the bench if you don't have other rotation strikers? I like the height/acceleration and okay off the ball combination there.
Vashon has some nice attributes, but I don't see a clear way of getting the best out of them. Strange profile? Not a player I'd give a lot of game time to.

On inconsistent player's: inconsistency doesn't impact physical attributes which can be a nice to keep in mind if you come across an inconsistent athlete! They can still be useful to your squad as you're relying on them for their athleticism, not the technicals or mentals.

On that note, I would see if there's some physicality you can bring into the first team. A lot of these player's are pretty one gear / lacking a turn in pace (which can be difficult if it's most of the squad). If you're able to find 2-3 player's with a bit of mobility that would go a long way I think.

HanziZoloman · February 19

@Cloud9 thanks again for the feedback.
O‘Reilly has been part of the CB and I‘d shy away from using him in midfield with Pas 7 but addressed it with shorter passing PI.

The pace is clearly on the wings and up front. I have several players with Acc 14-16 and pace and mobility. In center it needs to be some kind of complete player, with good enough mentals and technique, which did not came through in the past years. I have a quick young one in the U18 but he is lacking tackling (4).
both Tac and Acc are not easy to develop I feel.
At the moment I am very content with the style of play. I‘ll try to keep Kalala here and maybe an VOL option evolves in the next years to give us some options up front.
I am very loyal to many players which comes with the task. Nobody fits at first sight but develops when chances given. Maybe I am sometimes a little blind to the weaknesses of some players and keep them around for too long.

anyone you would get rid of sooner rather than later in the list?

Cloud9 · February 20

17 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

@Cloud9 thanks again for the feedback.
O‘Reilly has been part of the CB and I‘d shy away from using him in midfield with Pas 7 but addressed it with shorter passing PI.

The pace is clearly on the wings and up front. I have several players with Acc 14-16 and pace and mobility. In center it needs to be some kind of complete player, with good enough mentals and technique, which did not came through in the past years. I have a quick young one in the U18 but he is lacking tackling (4).
both Tac and Acc are not easy to develop I feel.
At the moment I am very content with the style of play. I‘ll try to keep Kalala here and maybe an VOL option evolves in the next years to give us some options up front.
I am very loyal to many players which comes with the task. Nobody fits at first sight but develops when chances given. Maybe I am sometimes a little blind to the weaknesses of some players and keep them around for too long.

anyone you would get rid of sooner rather than later in the list?

Sounds good, as long as there are a couple of players in there with pace already you should be fine.

Hmm on player's to move on, I'd consider Vashon. Usually I'd look for player's who can fill a role in the team or perform at one aspect of the game well (even if that's just running with the ball). His attribute combinations don't synergies too well. For example:

He can dribble with a great agi/balance combo which is brilliant but he lacks any pace to be a threat to beating his man.
He physically can run a bit, but then his workrate is quite low and his mentals don't make him reliable as a soldier.
I also don't see a clear creative or goalscoring element to his play.

It doesn't seem like he's a good fit now and in the future it's unlikely he'll get there either? Personally I would look to move him on in favor of giving game time (and developmental time) to players who can do a job for you now, either in the starting 11 or as a squad player.

Edited February 20 by Cloud9

HanziZoloman · February 20

I am doing so well now with all the changes and new promising players are already coming through.
The one thing that is bothering me is, that in AP(S) all players seem to fail (except Chris Burness) especially Loric Kalala is piling bad matches.
I am very inexperienced with a AMC role do you have some suggestions how to give him more impact? Usually he receives the ball and is easily dispatched from it shortly. It’s not like he is not trying. He even gained points in dribbling and Acc (10 both now).
I mean AP(S) with roaming exactly plays to his strengths. We often face 442 or 433 btw @Cloud9

I have some ideas:

Positional play could be of use.
the IF(S) right sided should arrive first in the central area before the box, as the AP(S) drops into MC to help build up play. Then he turns and arrives next into the area in front of the box. Last I tell the DM(S) on the left to get further forward who is the third player to arrive in the area in front of the box.
The IF(S) will attract an opponent’s Defender or the DM which gives the AP room to move into. Up front a Poacher is pinning the defenders back. I‘d like the opponents DM to attack the IF(S). The AP(S) now has options in front, the through ball into the Poacher, he could bring the W(A) into play or the IF(S) if the opponents DM tries and attack the AP(S). The DM(S) arriving late could finish off chances from the edge of the box.

Does it sound good?

Edited February 20 by HanziZoloman

Cloud9 · February 21

On 20/02/2024 at 01:19, HanziZoloman said:

I am doing so well now with all the changes and new promising players are already coming through.
The one thing that is bothering me is, that in AP(S) all players seem to fail (except Chris Burness) especially Loric Kalala is piling bad matches.
I am very inexperienced with a AMC role do you have some suggestions how to give him more impact? Usually he receives the ball and is easily dispatched from it shortly. It’s not like he is not trying. He even gained points in dribbling and Acc (10 both now).
I mean AP(S) with roaming exactly plays to his strengths. We often face 442 or 433 btw @Cloud9

I have some ideas:

Positional play could be of use.
the IF(S) right sided should arrive first in the central area before the box, as the AP(S) drops into MC to help build up play. Then he turns and arrives next into the area in front of the box. Last I tell the DM(S) on the left to get further forward who is the third player to arrive in the area in front of the box.
The IF(S) will attract an opponent’s Defender or the DM which gives the AP room to move into. Up front a Poacher is pinning the defenders back. I‘d like the opponents DM to attack the IF(S). The AP(S) now has options in front, the through ball into the Poacher, he could bring the W(A) into play or the IF(S) if the opponents DM tries and attack the AP(S). The DM(S) arriving late could finish off chances from the edge of the box.

Does it sound good?

Well I'm glad things are working, although frustrating that the player we tried to build around is struggling in the system. If he's underperforming like this I would take him out of the AP role for a bit. His mobility is actually pretty decent, it's just the quick turn of pace (which is a different kind of running) that he's lacking at the moment. However if the tactic is working really well overall (9 undefeated) I wouldn't make tactical changes aside from his role at the moment. We talked about a SV(s) for the double pivot above, if you ended up finding a mobile player to perform that role it could give some direct support to Kalala.

I think as your star player you need to develop him in an intentional way a little bit before you can really take advantage of his attributes. He's got a great mental skill set to perform either as center of the wheel of your tactic or as a finishing goalscorer. However the 12 passing is a bit low for his ability to dictate the game and the 9 acceleration means he'll struggle to take advantage of his incredible goal scoring mentals to the full extent. Pushing his passing ability or quickness as much as possible can help him get past that barrier that's holding him back. Speed can be capped by player, so going with the passing is a safer bet at 20 years old. I am a bit mixed on this one, because if the speed did work out he could be an incredible goalscorer from midfield.

I'd avoid training his dribbling ability, imo I prefer to double down on a player's strengths than have them be pretty okay at everything. You can put in his PIs "dribble less" as a quick fix.

If you're watching matches in full, you can also see where things are going wrong for him in game and try to address those directly. Ie. is he performing badly because he's too isolated? Or is it because he's being targeted by the opposition? If he's being targeted then he can still be creating space for the players around him as he struggles, which could explain why the team is winning-- despite the player we've built around failing. He lacks the abilities that would make him press resistant (high anticipation/dribbling/pace) so if that ends up being the case, looking to protect him a bit more could help.

Edited February 21 by Cloud9

HanziZoloman · February 21

vor 57 Minuten schrieb Cloud9:

Well I'm glad things are working, although frustrating that the player we tried to build around is struggling in the system. If he's underperforming like this I would take him out of the AP role for a bit. His mobility is actually pretty decent, it's just the quick turn of pace (which is a different kind of running) that he's lacking at the moment. However if the tactic is working really well overall (9 undefeated) I wouldn't make tactical changes aside from his role at the moment. We talked about a SV(s) for the double pivot above, if you ended up finding a mobile player to perform that role it could give some direct support to Kalala.

I think as your star player you need to develop him in an intentional way a little bit before you can really take advantage of his attributes. He's got a great mental skill set to perform either as center of the wheel of your tactic or as a finishing goalscorer. However the 12 passing is a bit low for his ability to dictate the game and the 9 acceleration means he'll struggle to take advantage of his incredible goal scoring mentals to the full extent. Pushing his passing ability or quickness as much as possible can help him get past that barrier that's holding him back. Speed can be capped by player, so going with the passing is a safer bet at 20 years old. I am a bit mixed on this one, because if the speed did work out he could be an incredible goalscorer from midfield.

I'd avoid training his dribbling ability, imo I prefer to double down on a player's strengths than have them be pretty okay at everything. You can put in his PIs "dribble less" as a quick fix.

If you're watching matches in full, you can also see where things are going wrong for him in game and try to address those directly. Ie. is he performing badly because he's too isolated? Or is it because he's being targeted by the opposition? If he's being targeted then he can still be creating space for the players around him as he struggles, which could explain why the team is winning-- despite the player we've built around failing. He lacks the abilities that would make him press resistant (high anticipation/dribbling/pace) so if that ends up being the case, looking to protect him a bit more could help.

Thanks for the reply, from what I saw I believe he is being marked out or struggles when pressed, he is easy to catch with Acc 10 (it went up one notch). Would you take him completely out or change his role into something AMC(S)?

Isn‘t Chris Burness a mobile enough player?
if I play Churchus as a DLP(S) Kalala should play AMC(A)?

sadly the new intake brought no mobility into center midfield all players coming in are rather slow

I check on the issues you presented

Cloud9 · February 21

2 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Thanks for the reply, from what I saw I believe he is being marked out or struggles when pressed, he is easy to catch with Acc 10 (it went up one notch). Would you take him completely out or change his role into something AMC(S)?

Isn‘t Chris Burness a mobile enough player?
if I play Churchus as a DLP(S) Kalala should play AMC(A)?

sadly the new intake brought no mobility into center midfield all players coming in are rather slow

I check on the issues you presented

If things aren't working out w/Kalala as an AP (ie. over targeted), an approach to fixing this would be to play w/out a playmaker entirely (and doing a deep dive into PI passing meters within the squad instead). The other option would be to go with two playmakers (DLP + AP w/the SV could be interesting). I would personally start with no playmaker and Kalala as an AMC(a) (to see if we can kick start his poor performances). I would also like to see how many goals he can pick up via this role. Just a quick note on him: I'd consider removing "moves into channels" from him. The channels will take him wide, away from the goal and require an explosive player to successfully exploit the gaps between opposition defenders.

You could give Burness a go at the SV role! He looks competent, I would look to upgrade him whenever you can get a more mobile option through the academy.

What are your training schedules / squad rotation setups like? My other concern would be overplaying / overworking a 20 year old like Kalala and hampering his development. I would recommend setting up your squad selection with Injury risk, fatigue, and match load viewable to avoid such complications.

Edited February 21 by Cloud9

HanziZoloman · February 22

vor 14 Stunden schrieb Cloud9:

If things aren't working out w/Kalala as an AP (ie. over targeted), an approach to fixing this would be to play w/out a playmaker entirely (and doing a deep dive into PI passing meters within the squad instead). The other option would be to go with two playmakers (DLP + AP w/the SV could be interesting). I would personally start with no playmaker and Kalala as an AMC(a) (to see if we can kick start his poor performances). I would also like to see how many goals he can pick up via this role. Just a quick note on him: I'd consider removing "moves into channels" from him. The channels will take him wide, away from the goal and require an explosive player to successfully exploit the gaps between opposition defenders.

You could give Burness a go at the SV role! He looks competent, I would look to upgrade him whenever you can get a more mobile option through the academy.

What are your training schedules / squad rotation setups like? My other concern would be overplaying / overworking a 20 year old like Kalala and hampering his development. I would recommend setting up your squad selection with Injury risk, fatigue, and match load viewable to avoid such complications.

Season is finished, we had one game left to try the changes. Chris Burness scored from the SV but Kalala didn't produce anything notable.

Maybe I am overplaying him, he is 21y/o and played 30-35 matches per season. He got 4 goals and 5 assists in 35 games.

Training Schedules are matched to train tech/ mental aspects of the game especially intelligence but are also filled with physical aspects. I started to train more physicals in the U18s now that I am aware of the deficit. I am tracking the progress in excel sheets and it produces positive results. The facilities are "good" since the last upgrade (just downgraded to "average"). I try to rotate the squad as often as possible, I want to give game time to all those promising youngsters and I don't like to play players with "high" match load. 21 players got 12 and more apps only the newest promoted youngsters and players returning from loans in January got fewer matches. I want to show you Kalalas greatest challenger who just returned from a successful loan spell:

He can become even better than Kalala. I am tempted to cash in on Kalala as he won't sign a new contract.

I sold Myles Pott (the big DM) and give game time to this youngster as the tower in the pivot:

From the newest intake I try to retrain two defenders as DM and check on who is developing faster in that role. This one for instance:

Edited February 22 by HanziZoloman

Cloud9 · February 22

4 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Season is finished, we had one game left to try the changes. Chris Burness scored from the SV but Kalala didn't produce anything notable.

Maybe I am overplaying him, he is 21y/o and played 30-35 matches per season. He got 4 goals and 5 assists in 35 games.

Training Schedules are matched to train tech/ mental aspects of the game especially intelligence but are also filled with physical aspects. I started to train more physicals in the U18s now that I am aware of the deficit. I am tracking the progress in excel sheets and it produces positive results. The facilities are "good" since the last upgrade (just downgraded to "average"). I try to rotate the squad as often as possible, I want to give game time to all those promising youngsters and I don't like to play players with "high" match load. 21 players got 12 and more apps only the newest promoted youngsters and players returning from loans in January got fewer matches. I want to show you Kalalas greatest challenger who just returned from a successful loan spell:

He can become even better than Kalala. I am tempted to cash in on Kalala as he won't sign a new contract.

I sold Myles Pott (the big DM) and give game time to this youngster as the tower in the pivot:

From the newest intake I try to retrain two defenders as DM and check on who is developing faster in that role. This one for instance:

Looks like a nice crop coming through :thup:

Can you go to the development of Kalala over time to see how he's developed? You can see which attributes have progressed on him. In general on youth I prioritize technicals and physicals when they're younger, since mentals will improve as they age.

I think streamlining your training/development could help to avoid Kalala situations in the future. If the player can focus his develop to be good at one thing, they can slot into a structured style of play the team has settled into. Or some specifically, focusing on developing a small number of attributes that in combination will make him capable of pulling off one aspect of the game (passing the ball, beating a man in a 1v1, ball winning, working hard, finishing chances etc.) The earlier you can identify what you'd like to mould that player into the better. If he can end up doing 2 things that's an additional bonus, but not the priority

Adej looks like he could take over that AP spot, but he'd need to develop his passing/vision significantly to be impactful. I'd also prioritize improving his balance. I wouldn't train any traits onto him since he'll need that development time, although it would be worthwhile to get rid of that "knocks the ball past opponents" trait.

Edited February 22 by Cloud9

HanziZoloman · February 22

Kalalas development

@Cloud9 Thank you, that is something I am struggling with, identifying a players future "task" but that helps. How are your training schedules for U18 can you tell about how you do it?

Aron Kilman also looks promising

Edited February 22 by HanziZoloman

Cloud9 · February 22

10 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Kalalas development

@Cloud9 Thank you, that is something I am struggling with, identifying a players future "task" but that helps. How are your training schedules for U18 can you tell about how you do it?

Aron Kilman also looks promising

I would recommend taking control of the u18 and micromanaging it as much as possible in the style of your first team if you're doing an academy save.

On Kalala, it looks like he came in as a very solid template for an AP, but didn't really develop in the right direction as he grew. The holy trinity of Technique 15, Vision 12, and Passing 12 only progressed by 2 attributes in 5 years, which is a cause of concern. I'd label him as an AP at 15 due to those 3, first touch, decent mentals/flair, and poor physicals. I'd also say it looks like the technicals could be prioritized a bit more in their early development based on that. You can't entirely control the attribute progression, but trying to maximize his strengths instead of his weakness could have seen him progress into a capable AP for your side. His physicals were really poor when he started, so developing into an effective chance finisher/header of the ball would have been almost impossible.

I would look up successful template training sessions and then tailor them for the attributes you want to see progressed.
I usually use the Blue Attacking/Defending general training for growth along with one match practice + a heavy physical training session on top. I then fill the training schedule with the attributes I want to see developed onto the lads, and enough that offer "individual focus" for them to develop there as well. I also give the day off to anyone who played the day after a match, while the rest of the squad trains. Adequate rest time is essential. You'd need to tailor this to your own approach though.
On overplaying a player, for a really young player I think around 15 starts of 60 minute game time is about what you're looking for to ensure development. I would say 35 games for a 20 year old is in the overplaying territory. I wouldn't feel good about asking a young player to start more than 25 games a year until he's a bit older?
You can set your individualized training + a role training that highlights the attributes you wish to develop (not just the role you're looking to utilize him in).

On figuring out what you'd like a player to develop into, you'll first need your style of play (which in this case you've already established). I quite like a 4-4-2 since the players operate in pairs around the pitch, and it makes space for more limited players as their partner can make up for their shortcomings. How I look at player's is dictated by my defence first midblock and so approaches will vary. I look first at :

Physical profile
- This dictates where he can play on the pitch. Tall players are candidates for areas protecting/attacking central space, slow are primarily more central players, and quick players can use their speed best in wide areas. These are very general takes, but physicals are more inherent and make good starting points. Agi makes him dangerous running at opponents, balance is the defensive counterpart. If you've got both together, they can serve as a substitute for strength. A player w/out a Agi/balance combo or Str will be easily influenced by opposing players and have a difficult time influencing them himself.
  - If you can get a combination of physicals at a young age on a player (tall/fast, strong/fast, agi/strong for example), these can signal key members of the squad going forward.
- I then look at other attributes that I can't train as easily, again more inherent traits. (Aggression, natural fitness, concentration, flair, bravery, teamwork, tackling etc).
- After that I look for attributes pairings that I can utilize for a specific job. (agi, dribbling + speed = 1v1 ability, Technique, passing, vision = a playmaker profile, Aggression/bravery/teamwork = enforcer).

I don't look at the stars (CA or PA) when doing a first pass on a player. I see what he is now, and what he could do for me if he was playing in the first team. I then try to develop those strengths instead of chasing something that could never materialize. The PA is a good guide after you have established this first bit :thup:

Edited February 23 by Cloud9

HanziZoloman · February 23

vor 20 Stunden schrieb Cloud9:

I would recommend taking control of the u18 and micromanaging it as much as possible in the style of your first team if you're doing an academy save.

On Kalala, it looks like he came in as a very solid template for an AP, but didn't really develop in the right direction as he grew. The holy trinity of Technique 15, Vision 12, and Passing 12 only progressed by 2 attributes in 5 years, which is a cause of concern. I'd label him as an AP at 15 due to those 3, first touch, decent mentals/flair, and poor physicals. I'd also say it looks like the technicals could be prioritized a bit more in their early development based on that. You can't entirely control the attribute progression, but trying to maximize his strengths instead of his weakness could have seen him progress into a capable AP for your side. His physicals were really poor when he started, so developing into an effective chance finisher/header of the ball would have been almost impossible.

thanks again for going into the analysis.

I read carefully and already took action. Points I need to address:

development and training of U18 Players/ young first team players
getting more in touch with a player profile and developing the stronger areas more
identifying players with two complimenting key areas

first: The training template

this is a first draft to address quickness, which is a major issue in the class of 60 and 61. I have other templates for Endurance and Resistance which look similar.

second: My players developed strong mental attributes because I put them into roles that address intelligence like Raumdeuter. Now I train them in roles that will train their strongest attributes further or to balance slight weaknesses.

third: This is difficult for me but I'll try to improve with what you stated. Take this one for example:

He is tall and his balance could be improved easily. He could protect central areas, he is a quick option which we are lacking centrally. As a WB his height is a bit wasted.

I check on attributes that can't be easily trained: Work Rate (16) and Teamwork (12) is strong, Tackling (13) rounds the profile, he can jump and has a nice Natural Fitness ans Stamina. Decisions ist good. If trained in Balance, Anticipation and Def. Positioning he could be a good holding six. (correct?) He lacks Bravery which is important and can't be trained.

Cloud9 · February 23

1 hour ago, HanziZoloman said:

thanks again for going into the analysis.

I read carefully and already took action. Points I need to address:

development and training of U18 Players/ young first team players

getting more in touch with a player profile and developing the stronger areas more

identifying players with two complimenting key areas

first: The training template

this is a first draft to address quickness, which is a major issue in the class of 60 and 61. I have other templates for Endurance and Resistance which look similar.

second: My players developed strong mental attributes because I put them into roles that address intelligence like Raumdeuter. Now I train them in roles that will train their strongest attributes further or to balance slight weaknesses.

third: This is difficult for me but I'll try to improve with what you stated. Take this one for example:

He is tall and his balance could be improved easily. He could protect central areas, he is a quick option which we are lacking centrally. As a WB his height is a bit wasted.

I check on attributes that can't be easily trained: Work Rate (16) and Teamwork (12) is strong, Tackling (13) rounds the profile, he can jump and has a nice Natural Fitness ans Stamina. Decisions ist good. If trained in Balance, Anticipation and Def. Positioning he could be a good holding six. (correct?) He lacks Bravery which is important and can't be trained.

On the training schedule: Try to stagger your hard vs easy days. Ie. Working them hard Monday/Wednesday with a down day on Tuesday will help to reduce injuries and also it's how training IRL works Muscles need time to recover and grow stronger before you break them down again. I'd keep training schedules the day after the match, and just manually give the day off to anyone who started.

Looks like a natural 8 in a 4-3-3 formation (ie. his best strengths are his running ability in Teamwork, Stamina, Natural Fitness and Stamina). In an ideal world I would just double down on these abilities and have him run himself into the ground for us. Presumably you haven't come across a complete 6 in a youth recruitment recently, so we will be looking at him as a 6 partnered with a Ball playing profile DM or as a FB(s).

How good are your current player's in those positions? Is he a backup for both slots or is he going in as a first team starter in right back or DM? Having players that can play multiple positions is useful, but it will dictate how to develop him.

Developing his physicals either way makes sense, his positioning can be covered by them and it will develop as he ages anyways. His pace is probably what you want to look at first, he's got excellent acceleration already but it's useless without a decent top gear to hit. After that, I'd likely look to train him w/str + jumping reach. Agi/balance is the third priority I'd give to training onto him. That would give you a strong physical profile for your DM pivot, and add some much needed physicality to midfield. If you intend to play him as a FB(s) the 13 jumping reach will still be decent, but then I'd go after upping his pace and agi/balance first.

No matter the role you end up playing him in, I'd recommend training him as a BWM(d). Try to avoid developing his technicals, you'll want to address his shortcomings in his PIs when he plays to get around them. I'd recommend Pass it shorter + dribble less.

Edited February 23 by Cloud9

HanziZoloman · February 23

vor 29 Minuten schrieb Cloud9:

In an ideal world I would just double down on these abilities and have him run himself into the ground for us.

I like that. A complete 6 is nowhere in sight. On the right side I have a WB(S) and to pacy options. O‘Reilly wants to leave and lost more of his mobility, I don’t play him anymore.
I have one big 6 from the academy which I mentioned earlier: Gregory Myers who develops steadily. I don’t want to overplay him which is why I am looking for options and thus: Bruce Bullo looks like a decent. Also I try and play Jack Walsh (mentioned in the first post) in the big pivot, he’s a bit older and 1.81 meters high. Sharing the position between the three and watching who develops best.

Loric Kalala and O‘Reilly were forcing a move away but the offers didn’t meet my expectations. Now they both still here and are happy again, as the clubs lost interest in them. O‘Reilly now has Acc 6 and Bal 7 I want to get rid of him. Kalala blocks the place for promising youngsters who I want to mould better, like Kilman, Adjej and Okur. How would you handle this? I can easily loan out one of them and share the game time between two and Kalala who then leaves at the end of the season. We could try him as a more goal scoring thread like AMC(A). But then how to bring him into play in this role? he needs to be fed. The W(A/S) can cross, the IF(S) passes, the WB(S) crosses, a ball from deep would be a nice touch.

Aron Chirchus now plays as a FB(S) you remember the brilliant passer. He is a resolute personality and I don’t want to leave him out. McCormick does a better job centrally and the options for left FB are few. Sometimes I play Burness as a SV and put Churchus in a IWB(S) to play passes from deep.

Edited February 23 by HanziZoloman

Cloud9 · February 23

44 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

I like that. A complete 6 is nowhere in sight. On the right side I have a WB(S) and to pacy options. O‘Reilly wants to leave and lost more of his mobility, I don’t play him anymore.
I have one big 6 from the academy which I mentioned earlier: Gregory Myers who develops steadily. I don’t want to overplay him which is why I am looking for options and thus: Bruce Bullo looks like a decent. Also I try and play Jack Walsh (mentioned in the first post) in the big pivot, he’s a bit older and 1.81 meters high. Sharing the position between the three and watching who develops best.

Loric Kalala and O‘Reilly were forcing a move away but the offers didn’t meet my expectations. Now they both still here and are happy again, as the clubs lost interest in them. O‘Reilly now has Acc 6 and Bal 7 I want to get rid of him. Kalala blocks the place for promising youngsters who I want to mould better, like Kilman, Adjej and Okur. How would you handle this? I can easily loan out one of them and share the game time between two and Kalala who then leaves at the end of the season. We could try him as a more goal scoring thread like AMC(A). But then how to bring him into play in this role? he needs to be fed. The W(A/S) can cross, the IF(S) passes, the WB(S) crosses, a ball from deep would be a nice touch.

Aron Chirchus now plays as a FB(S) you remember the brilliant passer. He is a resolute personality and I don’t want to leave him out. McCormick does a better job centrally and the options for left FB are few. Sometimes I play Burness as a SV and put Churchus in a IWB(S) to play passes from deep.

Sounds like Bruce can be a good utility player then to provide cover to the DM/FB.

If I remember the pivot had two fairly industrious players in it. This can lead to buildup issues, esp if we've removed Kalala from the AP role to a more attacking runner role. Do you have anyone technical players you could pair with a physical player in the pivot?

I would recommend looking at pass maps with Kalala (both as an AP and as an AMC(a) from previous matches). How is the team building up? Who is feeding him the ball? This is a good starting point to address problems like this.

On loaning a player out, you're probably alright keeping them at the club. Your squad seems very young and lots of rotation will help develop them. I'd also trust my own development of players over a loan club.

Edited February 23 by Cloud9

HanziZoloman · February 24

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Cloud9:

On the training schedule: Try to stagger your hard vs easy days. Ie. Working them hard Monday/Wednesday with a down day on Tuesday will help to reduce injuries and also it's how training IRL works Muscles need time to recover and grow stronger before you break them down again. I'd keep training schedules the day after the match, and just manually give the day off to anyone who started.

Looks like a natural 8 in a 4-3-3 formation (ie. his best strengths are his running ability in Teamwork, Stamina, Natural Fitness and Stamina). In an ideal world I would just double down on these abilities and have him run himself into the ground for us. Presumably you haven't come across a complete 6 in a youth recruitment recently, so we will be looking at him as a 6 partnered with a Ball playing profile DM or as a FB(s).

How good are your current player's in those positions? Is he a backup for both slots or is he going in as a first team starter in right back or DM? Having players that can play multiple positions is useful, but it will dictate how to develop him.

Developing his physicals either way makes sense, his positioning can be covered by them and it will develop as he ages anyways. His pace is probably what you want to look at first, he's got excellent acceleration already but it's useless without a decent top gear to hit. After that, I'd likely look to train him w/str + jumping reach. Agi/balance is the third priority I'd give to training onto him. That would give you a strong physical profile for your DM pivot, and add some much needed physicality to midfield. If you intend to play him as a FB(s) the 13 jumping reach will still be decent, but then I'd go after upping his pace and agi/balance first.

No matter the role you end up playing him in, I'd recommend training him as a BWM(d). Try to avoid developing his technicals, you'll want to address his shortcomings in his PIs when he plays to get around them. I'd recommend Pass it shorter + dribble less.

I've reworked the Training Schedule: Got another one with Quickness and Resistance which are almost the same and especially the same pattern. Resting the day after a match I already do. Next on the list are passing maps. So I guess you would start Kalala nontheless (?)

But Houston we have a different problem. As every year, the formation change brings better results, we turn things around but when the season kicks in, we lose again. Just have a look at goals conceded, opponents have a high xG against us like 3.x ... 2.x which is clearly much too high. Tactic remains the same no changes except going from fairly narrow --> standard and passing from shorter --> standard. If it were your team, which parameters would you check now?

Here is a fantastic dtriker coming in. I don't want to suck in his development. What is on the agenda here?

Anticipation, Finishing, Dribbling and Agility + Jumping and Heading. He can be a monster, he can even pass the ball. He is mentored by a highly determined player (18). I train him as an AF and try to make him a bit Quicker. I also focus and try to make him even more agile. He is played as a PF(A) at the moment.

Edited February 24 by HanziZoloman

Cloud9 · February 24

11 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

But Houston we have a different problem. As every year, the formation change brings better results, we turn things around but when the season kicks in, we lose again. Just have a look at goals conceded, opponents have a high xG against us like 3.x ... 2.x which is clearly much too high. Tactic remains the same no changes except going from fairly narrow --> standard and passing from shorter --> standard. If it were your team, which parameters would you check now?

Sorry to hear about the turn in form, that's frustrating. I'd keep playing Kalala unless you've got a more in form player to choose from.

On things going wrong:

Check how you're conceding the goals from the recent matches.
Have your pre season predications changed vastly from last season? Teams could be changing their style of play against you.
Look for where the's empty space on the pitch that's being exploited or not exploited.

A strong pre season + establishing your strongest starting 11 is pivotal to hitting the ground running in a season. If a player isn't playing well, drop him.

Graham looks great, I would play him in games where he can do well. A striker who loses confidence is difficult to get to perform / develop.

Lastly you could consider turning to a 4-4-2, esp with the rise of Graham. He would do excellently in the lower leagues in a striker pairing w/ a quick partner, and it sounds like your 10 position isn't working out at the moment. In terms of developing him, If he's a solo 9 just focus on his speed. If he's in a partnership, focus on his strength. I would prefer a partnership for him since he could turn into an impressive TF, but his pace is never going to get there. He lacks the raw running ability to play a PF role I'm afraid, so I'd stick to TF (partnership) or Poacher (solo 9).

Perhaps a 4-2-4 could work as well then? You could play a high lines system of a Graham (TF) + Kalala (Poacher) for his off the ball. They'd be quite slow though but if you can control games a bit more now it could be workable.

Abandoning what was working before can be quite drastic, I'd try diagnosing the problem and making small tweaks unless the squad has changed to the point where a different system is preferable.

Edited February 24 by Cloud9

HanziZoloman · February 25

Ok I managed somehow to hold our downfall and make Kalala work. He's getting better and better, Off the ball now 18.

We noe control the ball much more and Churchus thrives as a DLP. I don't to change over everything again and want to stick to a system for longer.

Kalala 6 matches 4 goals one assist

Edited February 25 by HanziZoloman

Cloud9 · February 25

1 hour ago, HanziZoloman said:

Ok I managed somehow to hold our downfall and make Kalala work. He's getting better and better, Off the ball now 18.

We noe control the ball much more and Churchus thrives as a DLP. I don't to change over everything again and want to stick to a system for longer.

Kalala 6 matches 4 goals one assist

Very nice, glad you got him firing!

Hopefully he'll sign a new contract for you

Edited February 25 by Cloud9

Captain_T · March 9

Am 16.2.2024 um 10:48 schrieb HanziZoloman:

Hi guys, it's amazing how much help I got from you and now I need to reach out again. I am heavily struggling with my YAC (Youth Academy Challenge) Team Billericay again. We are playing League One at the moment. Almost the same Squad played Championship two years ago but after the relegation we are fighting relegation in EFL One again instead of competing for a returning promotion for Championship.

The question is mainly how to find a winning formula in a 433 as we are playing that kind of shape since years. I want to build a midfield trio which makes it more difficult to break the team. Mainly we have a lot of possession (3rd in league) but fail to bring our really fast (and mainly left footed) Wingplayers into good position. Our lone striker is struggling to get involved into the play and has few shots on target. I have a fast one and a slow one. The slow one is strong and can finish, he plays with "back to goal". The fast one is exceptional fast but can't finish too well (6) but he is big and can jump.

The best player is the AP(S) who stands out (you'll see it down here, Loric Kalala).

I show you my tactic here:

Here you'll see my central midfielders which are causing my headaches. I used to have a possession heavy approach but with the recent downslide over two years I gave it up.

I hope for some help and inspiration how to get this ship sailing again. I feel like I tried everything. Oftentimes tweaking and tweaking with no effort and then end up changing a lot. The change usually leads into 1 or 2 good games and then it starts all over again.

The opponents tend to sit back and wait for mistakes in our build up into midfield the hit a counter with fast players. sometimes they press our defenders.

The keeper is a nice ball player with nice first touch and passing but he is a decent thrower and kicker as well.

Is this FM23 or FM24?

HanziZoloman · March 9

vor 59 Minuten schrieb Captain_T:

Is this FM23 or FM24?

FM24

HanziZoloman · March 9

Am 25.2.2024 um 23:16 schrieb Cloud9:

Very nice, glad you got him firing!

Hopefully he'll sign a new contract for you

He did sign one but is constantly unhappy. Any advice? He wants to move to a bigger club but doesn’t get any offers. Play him or not?
I told him he can leave but I won‘t offer him out.

Cloud9 · March 10

7 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

He did sign one but is constantly unhappy. Any advice? He wants to move to a bigger club but doesn’t get any offers. Play him or not?
I told him he can leave but I won‘t offer him out.

Hi again! Hope the save is going well since last time.

Is he performing poorly on top of being unhappy? If so, I think my advice usually would be sell. However since you're academy only, would you really be able to use the funds?

If he's tied down to a contract getting him firing would 1. generate a much higher offer for him 2. help you overachieve to get more board requests through. Usually if you haven't broken any promises and give them lots of game time they will come around on happiness.

So in this case, trying to get the most out of him would likely make sense imo.

Edited March 10 by Cloud9

HanziZoloman · March 10

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Cloud9:

Hi again! Hope the save is going well since last time.

Is he performing poorly on top of being unhappy? If so, I think my advice usually would be sell. However since you're academy only, would you really be able to use the funds?

If he's tied down to a contract getting him firing would 1. generate a much higher offer for him 2. help you overachieve to get more board requests through. Usually if you haven't broken any promises and give them lots of game time they will come around on happiness.

So in this case, trying to get the most out of him would likely make sense imo.

Thanks again. I implemented @Rashidi latest postings about positional play into our Dialoge above.
I have two 4231 now, one is to keep the ball and score (we have a lot of possession in the league) and one is to drop a bit and hit on the counter. My main concern is still the AMC role which is doing okay and largely depends on the opposition. There can be matches when AMC is not working at all, some where some good moves are included but few. The DMs are performing better, more key passes and more impact. Especially Chris Boness in SV role. And there is a mobile DM coming through (!) I adopt to the game much more and watch for weaknesses (own and opponents) and try to exploit them. This means we had a top half start since October which we hadn’t for years.
Especially the young striker James Graham (see above) is doing well. Kalala missed a lot of the games due to his unhappiness but now I try to work him in the unit. I didn‘t break any promises yet. Dressing room atmosphere is high. I want to sell him because we need the money but there are no offers in sight. Just nothing.

Edited March 10 by HanziZoloman

Cloud9 · March 10

13 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

Thanks again. I implemented @Rashidi latest postings about positional play into our Dialoge above.
I have two 4231 now, one is to keep the ball and score (we have a lot of possession in the league) and one is to drop a bit and hit on the counter. My main concern is still the AMC role which is doing okay and largely depends on the opposition. There can be matches when AMC is not working at all, some where some good moves are included but few. The DMs are performing better, more key passes and more impact. Especially Chris Boness in SV role. And there is a mobile DM coming through (!) I adopt to the game much more and watch for weaknesses (own and opponents) and try to exploit them. This means we had a top half start since October which we hadn’t for years.
Especially the young striker James Graham (see above) is doing well. Kalala missed a lot of the games due to his unhappiness but now I try to work him in the unit. I didn‘t break any promises yet. Dressing room atmosphere is high. I want to sell him because we need the money but there are no offers in sight. Just nothing.

Have you experimented with using the new Intermediary feature? You can see if there's interest without causing the player to throw his toys out the pram. Asking the agent about market interest first helps as well.

I've quite enjoyed the increased level of realism this feature has added to my own saves, the intermediary takes a fee and you aren't able to negotiate back and forth as much to get the maximum price.

Edited March 10 by Cloud9

R0ca · March 10

1 hour ago, Cloud9 said:

Have you experimented with using the new Intermediary feature? You can see if there's interest without causing the player to throw his toys out the pram. Asking the agent about market interest first helps as well.

I've quite enjoyed the increased level of realism this feature has added to my own saves, the intermediary takes a fee and you aren't able to negotiate back and forth as much to get the maximum price.

I usually first ask the agent about any interest, then offer via transfer room and then ask an intermediary

have to fiddle about offering for loans as well as lower fees if no bites.

HanziZoloman · March 15

@Cloud9 you mentioned proper pre-season and squad rotation. Would you please explain it to me, how you do and why? Thanks

Cloud9 · March 15

1 hour ago, HanziZoloman said:

@Cloud9 you mentioned proper pre-season and squad rotation. Would you please explain it to me, how you do and why? Thanks

Basically I try to push them as hard as possible without breaking them (w/good physios this is pretty doable). So the first 2 weeks is like pure physical work as intense as possible w/like minimal to 0 rest. After that I do a mix of preseason friendlies so they've got full match fitness when the season starts while I continue to run the boys into the ground (but this time w/a bit more technical training included into the physical).

I would tailor training (general sessions are a good staple) to the attributes that will be important to your style of play.
Make sure your training schedules have enough rest in them after preseason.

A strong pre-season gives the lads the legs to carry on post Christmas and avoid a drop in form. The game doesn't do a great job of indicating to the manager that this is actually important to do.

Establish your strongest starting 11 and then add these three collumns to your selection view to see who needs to be rotated in the season:

Spoiler

Red injury risk is asking for trouble and high fatigue players will tire quickly. Against easy opposition take the opportunity to start 2-3 squad player's when you can.

Injury prone player's will need individualized management of their training which is a pain. Ideally you don't want the Match Sharpness of first time player's to dip too much, so keeping those up is important as well (you can make available previously injured players to the u21 to regain match fitness via right click).

If player's are overplayed their development will be severely hampered (its really easy to overplay u23 players who have less capacity for high game volume) and sooner or later their form will drop off a cliff. If this happens to multiple players in the squad, it's a key reason why you go from winning all the time to suddenly being unable to create a chance.

Edited March 15 by Cloud9

HanziZoloman · March 16

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Cloud9:

player's are overplayed their development will be severely hampered (its really easy to overplay u23 players who have less capacity for high game volume) and sooner or later their form will drop off a cliff. If this happens to multiple players in the squad, it's a key reason why you go from winning all the time to suddenly being unable to create a chance.

Thanks that all makes sense to me. I already watch for match load but will include the others. You could guess that most of my first teamers are U21 and U18 players. Especially the 17 y/o mobile midfielder

Some of them only signed new contracts with promises like „star player“. I try to keep that as low as possible but surly guys like Kalala and James Graham (the striker) remind me sooner than later to give them the game time they want. Kalala for example wants to play every match, even if he has a hit or is otherwise hampered. James Graham is out of form but insists on playing.

Edited March 16 by HanziZoloman

Cloud9 · March 16

14 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Thanks that all makes sense to me. I already watch for match load but will include the others. You could guess that most of my first teamers are U21 and U18 players. Especially the 17 y/o mobile midfielder

Some of them only signed new contracts with promises like „star player“. I try to keep that as low as possible but surly guys like Kalala and James Graham (the striker) remind me sooner than later to give them the game time they want. Kalala for example wants to play every match, even if he has a hit or is otherwise hampered. James Graham is out of form but insists on playing.

I tell them they'll be sold if they complain like that! Mostly it works The other decent option is reminding them of a more influential teammate who came to you w/ a similar problem. If a player is an important senior player w/a poor personality, beware though. You'll have to give them special treatment, like Ferguson to Cantona after the kung fu kick:

To the squad: "Absolutely awful the lot of you." To Cantona, "You really can't be doing that son."

On those rotation options, by high fatigue I also mean anyone who doesn't have fresh on them. Even low fatigue means they will give tired pretty quick, so I would always prefer to start a "fresh" player if possible.

I would recommend dropping player's who are out of form, even if they're not pleased about it. If the team is performing well, usually the above options will work (calming down upset players), so prioritizing form now is almost always preferable for me. Squad player's trained in multiple positions can help keep the squad happy and everyone getting the playing time they need. I only really need a direct backup for each spot once we're competing in European football under the new Swiss format, as well as the domestic cups.

Edited March 16 by Cloud9

HanziZoloman · March 16

vor einer Stunde schrieb Cloud9:

I tell them they'll be sold if they complain like that! Mostly it works The other decent option is reminding them of a more influential teammate who came to you w/ a similar problem. If a player is an important senior player w/a poor personality, beware though. You'll have to give them special treatment, like Ferguson to Cantona after the kung fu kick:

To the squad: "Absolutely awful the lot of you." To Cantona, "You really can't be doing that son."

That’s a nice story, maybe I need to be more clear with them. Usually I believe the game rewards pleasing above all.
when I look at the last matches which we lost and some hard fought draws, I see my players having a solid game but making mistakes in crucial moments. Oftentimes we get behind early and then fight a mountain. I will follow the advice and play fresh players, especially the defence has not been rotated enough, we‘re missing numbers here and the mistakes are mainly there.

I want to show you some of my youngsters, how would you suggest developing them (?):

1st the mobile DM

Spoiler

2nd Tom Moore who broke all records in U18 even scoring 7 goals in one match

Spoiler

and 3rd a brave fighter who is too small for CD

Spoiler

I am happy to hear your recommendations, it would help my game much.

Edited March 16 by HanziZoloman

Cloud9 · March 17

5 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

I want to show you some of my youngsters, how would you suggest developing them (?)

I like Kocoski! Could be a great pivot player alongside a tall DM or could function very nicely as an 8. Moore I'm not sure abut, poor physicals and a lack of a passing holy trinity make him a little difficult. 10 role could help cover up for his lack of physicality, but is he good enough to warrant it? Maybe he could develop into some kind of 8 if his physicals came up a bit. Think Laine falls into a similar category as Kocoski, but I much prefer the combination of reliable mentals + mobility on Kocoski.

HanziZoloman · March 17

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Cloud9:

I like Kocoski! Could be a great pivot player alongside a tall DM or could function very nicely as an 8. Moore I'm not sure abut, poor physicals and a lack of a passing holy trinity make him a little difficult. 10 role could help cover up for his lack of physicality, but is he good enough to warrant it? Maybe he could develop into some kind of 8 if his physicals came up a bit. Think Laine falls into a similar category as Kocoski, but I much prefer the combination of reliable mentals + mobility on Kocoski.

Thanks on the reviews. Did you notice that Moore is 16 y/o and already scored 5 in 4 senior apps?

I think it’s rather obvious, since mid January we miss the power in crucial positions to play our intense game. The players are fighting but have difficulties in concentration and make simple mistakes in the build up like misplaced passes or losing easy challenges in Defense. Luckily they are giving other teams a hard fight for the points. Especially the tall midfielder is almost on his own, as there is no one in sight to replace him. He won‘t become fresh anymore and one of the defenders as well. There we have problems in rotating.

Edited March 17 by HanziZoloman

Cloud9 · March 17

10 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Did you notice that Moore is 16 y/o and already scored 5 in 4 senior apps?

Impressive :thup: I dunno if I would be playing him in the first team at 16, I think that could hamper his development before he turns 18. He's got really nice attacking mentals, my concern on him would be his physical profile which will hold him back from getting into a lot of goal scoring opportunities. He is just 16 though, so I guess we will see how he grows up! Just a little acceleration/pace would go a long way for him.

Edited March 17 by Cloud9

HanziZoloman · March 17

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Cloud9:

Impressive I dunno if I would be playing him in the first team at 16, I think that could hamper his development before he turns 18. He's got really nice attacking mentals, my concern on him would be his physical profile which will hold him back from getting into a lot of goal scoring opportunities. He is just 16 though, so I guess we will see how he grows up! Just a little acceleration/pace would go a long way for him.

Yeah he is a strong sniper, freekicks and longshots. But for now he’s back in U18 training his pace.

do you recommend an U21 team? Because at the moment the players are either ready for first team or go out on loans when they turn 18.

edit: squad rotation with those rules you described above is much more fun. More players are getting their share.

Edited March 17 by HanziZoloman

Cloud9 · March 19

On 17/03/2024 at 09:44, HanziZoloman said:

Do you recommend an U21 team? Because at the moment the players are either ready for first team or go out on loans when they turn 18.

edit: squad rotation with those rules you described above is much more fun. More players are getting their share.

Glad the rotation is working well

I personally don't run an u21 team but I haven't done enough looking into the subject to speak w/certainly on the pro's/con's. I run a full functioning u18 team so there's enough player's for the squad to do well to further development. When they turn 18 I either loan them out or find a place for them in the first team squad, as they need senior game time to continue to grow at that point.

Usually I make special exceptions for Academy Team player's getting a place in the first team squad, but that's just my own preference.

Edited March 19 by Cloud9

HanziZoloman · March 19

I noticed that it makes a difference when fielding more players with more Teamwork. Do you see the same @Cloud9?

Cloud9 · March 19

9 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

I noticed that it makes a difference when fielding more players with more Teamwork. Do you see the same @Cloud9?

For what specifically?

I am a fan of the Teamwork attribute, mostly because I run systems of play that don't carry passengers and I want the players working together + following my instructions! I think it also represents a shift we're seeing IRL w/less passenger / individualistic players in successful systems.

Sign In

Need help with a 433

Recommended Posts

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post