[FM24] Welsh EPL teams in Europe/Cymru Premier Championship playoff

[rusty217]

o Wales.fmf

Changed all Welsh teams playing in England to qualify for European competitions via Wales. They play in the Welsh Cup, and if they're in the EPL then a maximum of 3 teams can join a championship playoff for the Cymru Premier with the team that finished 1st. Also gives them access to the Welsh UEFA places via that playoff. If there are no Welsh teams in the EPL then the top team in the Cymru Premier is made champion with no playoff.

Cymru Premier Championship playoff:

And the EPL table showing Cardiff/Swansea getting their UCL places via finishing in the top 2 in the Cymru:

 7 EPL teams in total qualifying for the UCL, including 1 who was also relegated

 

Edited Saturday at 05:26 by rusty217

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

For my 80s Welsh teams file I tested it by putting Man City in as Welsh. This pretty much guaranteed them winning the Welsh cup and the English Premier League. I was keen to see if all the backups worked and who qualified for what. You could do the same with your file but because you are using the existing continental competitions setup you could set several of the big English teams as Welsh. You'd soon see if the coefficients are working as you want them to.

[rusty217]

8 hours ago, \'Appy \'Ammer said:

For my 80s Welsh teams file I tested it by putting Man City in as Welsh. This pretty much guaranteed them winning the Welsh cup and the English Premier League. I was keen to see if all the backups worked and who qualified for what. You could do the same with your file but because you are using the existing continental competitions setup you could set several of the big English teams as Welsh. You'd soon see if the coefficients are working as you want them to.

Good idea! By the looks of things though the playoff isn't working as I'd like. It's giving out the worst European place, rather than the 2nd which I'd like. So it's going to be a Conference League spot at best.

[MJB1986]

It's great what you've done, thanks for creating this.

[rusty217]

Decided to go a different direction and just let Welsh teams in England have their cake and eat it.

The Euro places playoff wasn't working out, only giving out a Conference League place, so now they get a Championship playoff instead. They can take the Cymru Premier trophy home and potentially qualify for the UCL.

[themodelcitizen]

This is great. So they can be domestic champions in two countries at once? I guess there's no weirdness with the Welsh ranking levels/history/statistics or anything? Do they get the Welsh flag next to them/Welsh homegrown requirement when they qualify for UCL?

Edited January 28 by themodelcitizen

[rusty217]

On 28/01/2024 at 14:30, themodelcitizen said:

This is great. So they can be domestic champions in two countries at once? I guess there's no weirdness with the Welsh ranking levels/history/statistics or anything? Do they get the Welsh flag next to them/Welsh homegrown requirement when they qualify for UCL?

Yep. I've not noticed any issues with history etc. so far. Seen it work fine with both Cardiff/Swansea together, just one of them and none of them in the EPL. They count as Welsh for UEFA competitions, yeah. They get the Welsh flag and everything. That's also how I got the above screenshot with 2 Welsh teams in the UCL. Swansea/Cardiff did well enough in Europe to get Wales a second UCL place.

Never actually checked homegrown status (is the UI that displays that still bugged?). They're set up pretty similar to Liectensteiner teams in Switzerland though, so if it works alright for them I assume it does for the Welsh clubs too.

[themodelcitizen]

I think you could check under their registration and there should be a drop down to see what CL rules apply to them. But it sounds like it's working a charm

[MichaelNevo]

Love this idea, I wonder if it could help improve the Welsh league at all?

[rusty217]

On 08/02/2024 at 16:56, MichaelNevo said:

Love this idea, I wonder if it could help improve the Welsh league at all?

Not really. It has a decent chance of getting Wales more UEFA places, but those places will probably go to the teams in the English league system instead.

The finances in the Welsh league are so low that the increases from improved reputation won't make much of a difference either. It'll likely end up a bit better, but it's not going to be by much.

[MichaelNevo]

14 minutes ago, rusty217 said:

Not really. It has a decent chance of getting Wales more UEFA places, but those places will probably go to the teams in the English league system instead.

The finances in the Welsh league are so low that the increases from improved reputation won't make much of a difference either. It'll likely end up a bit better, but it's not going to be by much.

Which other clubs in England would it go to? 

[MichaelNevo]

Never mind I already know lol

[themodelcitizen]

Just occurred to me there might be a way to "use playoff rankings" in Wales and use flexible ranking places for everyone under 1st, so that 1st gets the title but the teams in the playoff can steal 2nd or 3rd (thereby taking the second-best European spot). Would need a bit of testing though

[phantom1998]

Nice idea, someone should definitely do this for Celtic and Rangers playing in England but qualifying for Europe via Scotland.

[themodelcitizen]

16 hours ago, phantom1998 said:

Nice idea, someone should definitely do this for Celtic and Rangers playing in England but qualifying for Europe via Scotland.

Now that's an idea, especially as Scotland splits into that final stage, you could take the top team (or two) out of there and put them in a final stage with the old firm instead. The thing is, moving Rangers and Celtic to the EPL means their European homegrown rules will be for 8 players who came up through England - their current rosters accommodate this but it's a huge pain and setback to any kind of Lisbon Lions-type homegrown planning. That seems hard-coded to their "nation" rather than their "continental cup nation" (which you can change back to Scottish), and "nation" has to be English if they're playing there. I think the Welsh teams might be hard-coded for this. Been brainstorming solutions, like some kind of wider British Premier League, but I don't think you can do much with those United Kingdom/Great Britain nationalities that operate in the background somehow

[phantom1998]

6 hours ago, themodelcitizen said:

Now that's an idea, especially as Scotland splits into that final stage, you could take the top team (or two) out of there and put them in a final stage with the old firm instead. The thing is, moving Rangers and Celtic to the EPL means their European homegrown rules will be for 8 players who came up through England - their current rosters accommodate this but it's a huge pain and setback to any kind of Lisbon Lions-type homegrown planning. That seems hard-coded to their "nation" rather than their "continental cup nation" (which you can change back to Scottish), and "nation" has to be English if they're playing there. I think the Welsh teams might be hard-coded for this. Been brainstorming solutions, like some kind of wider British Premier League, but I don't think you can do much with those United Kingdom/Great Britain nationalities that operate in the background somehow

Hmm I didn't know the homegrown rule was coded to nation rather than continental cup nation, but I think it would still be fun to play.   Given the resources of the EPL the old firm teams should be able to help Scotland move up the uefa coefficient ladder.

[rusty217]

On 28/04/2024 at 05:50, themodelcitizen said:

Now that's an idea, especially as Scotland splits into that final stage, you could take the top team (or two) out of there and put them in a final stage with the old firm instead. The thing is, moving Rangers and Celtic to the EPL means their European homegrown rules will be for 8 players who came up through England - their current rosters accommodate this but it's a huge pain and setback to any kind of Lisbon Lions-type homegrown planning. That seems hard-coded to their "nation" rather than their "continental cup nation" (which you can change back to Scottish), and "nation" has to be English if they're playing there. I think the Welsh teams might be hard-coded for this. Been brainstorming solutions, like some kind of wider British Premier League, but I don't think you can do much with those United Kingdom/Great Britain nationalities that operate in the background somehow

Really? huh, that's kind of annoying. Is it possible to edit European Fixture Rules without breaking anything? If so you could always do that to put in an exemption from the home grown rules just for Celtic/Rangers.

[J-Hood]

is their another link for this, OP isn't working for me. also another great idea Rusty. 

[rusty217]

17 hours ago, J-Hood said:

is their another link for this, OP isn't working for me. also another great idea Rusty. 

Just posted an updated version, hopefully that works.

[phantom1998]

On 27/04/2024 at 16:50, themodelcitizen said:

Now that's an idea, especially as Scotland splits into that final stage, you could take the top team (or two) out of there and put them in a final stage with the old firm instead. The thing is, moving Rangers and Celtic to the EPL means their European homegrown rules will be for 8 players who came up through England - their current rosters accommodate this but it's a huge pain and setback to any kind of Lisbon Lions-type homegrown planning. That seems hard-coded to their "nation" rather than their "continental cup nation" (which you can change back to Scottish), and "nation" has to be English if they're playing there. I think the Welsh teams might be hard-coded for this. Been brainstorming solutions, like some kind of wider British Premier League, but I don't think you can do much with those United Kingdom/Great Britain nationalities that operate in the background somehow

I think probably the only thing we can do about this is to change the English match squad rules from 8 homegrown players to max 17 foreign players.  It's not ideal but can't think of any other ideas.   Or just remove the homegrown rule completely. 

 

EDIT: Actually forgot that the Championship uses 8 homegrown players from Nation or Club.  So the premier league will change the homegrown rule to use that.  That's probably the best option.

Edited Monday at 14:45 by phantom1998

[phantom1998]

On 30/04/2024 at 05:05, rusty217 said:

Really? huh, that's kind of annoying. Is it possible to edit European Fixture Rules without breaking anything? If so you could always do that to put in an exemption from the home grown rules just for Celtic/Rangers.

It's not the european fixture rules, but the english league's 8 homegrown player rule since Scottish players don't can't as homegrown in England.

[rusty217]

18 hours ago, phantom1998 said:

It's not the european fixture rules, but the english league's 8 homegrown player rule since Scottish players don't can't as homegrown in England.

That one's an easy fix. You can just add a condition to the rule that says "not for team =Celtic". Do the same for the other teams too. You could add an alternative rule too with "for team=Celtic" etc. so just those teams have something different as well.

Still wondering about European rules though, since they require home grown players as well and I'm not sure how easy they are to edit. Changing continental stuff is usually a lot more difficult.

[J-Hood]

On 04/05/2024 at 06:26, rusty217 said:

Just posted an updated version, hopefully that works.

don't know what the issue is, it keeps being blocked.

[phantom1998]

5 hours ago, rusty217 said:

That one's an easy fix. You can just add a condition to the rule that says "not for team =Celtic". Do the same for the other teams too. You could add an alternative rule too with "for team=Celtic" etc. so just those teams have something different as well.

Still wondering about European rules though, since they require home grown players as well and I'm not sure how easy they are to edit. Changing continental stuff is usually a lot more difficult.

Well actually for some reason the game automatically adds English homegrown status to all the Scottish players on Celtics and Rangers.  So it solves the issue for England homegrown rules as well as the European registration rules.  Here's a screenshot of Celtic's registration in the premier league. 

[phantom1998]

Anyways I think I've hijacked this thread long enough, I'll start a new one and continue the discussion there.  I'll be release the file as soon as I'm done testing.

[themodelcitizen]

Isn't that just lads who happen to have been trained in England? Scott Bain for example (and future newgens) should have Scottish HG status but don't have it there

[phantom1998]

20 hours ago, themodelcitizen said:

Isn't that just lads who happen to have been trained in England? Scott Bain for example (and future newgens) should have Scottish HG status but don't have it there

I don't know about Scott Bain, but guys like Stephen Welsh and Mikey Johnston did not train in England but got England HG status.  Not sure why some got it and some didn't.  Future newgens also have English HG status rather than Scotland.

[themodelcitizen]

Interesting. For Champs League too? Will take a look at it

[phantom1998]

31 minutes ago, themodelcitizen said:

Interesting. For Champs League too? Will take a look at it

I posted my file on this thread, you guys can go try it out.