FM 24 Route One Tactical Workshop

[lied90]

1 hour ago, Jack722 said:

I am on the side that route one football is at least slightly broken. I remember doing a burnley save back when they were under Sean Dyche and a tailor-made 442 hoofball team. 

One save I used the out-the-box 442 route one , and the other save I used an out-the-box 433 vertical tikitaka, and kept my involvement as little as possible by leaving most day-to-day management to the assisstant manager...

Guess which was better?

Well the hoofball got me sacked half a season in and the vertical tikitaka finished mid table... Whatever you say, something is wildly wrong there. Either the match engine or the tactics creator needs to get sorted asap to make hoofball at least a somewhat viable tactic. - also a lot of peole are defending the ME by saying that hoof ball is just really complicated, or you need exactly the right players. But there is no reason why a simple 442 hoofball and mid / low block should be harder to create than a 433 gegenpress. In my opinion, playing out the back and high pressing is much more demanding in terms of attributes and coaching than any route one tactic - but those seem to be easy in the ME.

I'll redo the experiment if anyone is interested as i understand that at the moment this is just anecdotal.

If by "out of the box" you mean Preset tactics, then yes they are horrible and serve little to no purpose. This says more about the preset tactics than it does about Route One as a style in FM imo. You can play Route One with moderate success, it just doesn't compare to what you can achieve with gegenpress.

 

1 hour ago, Jack722 said:

This is just not route one though? The whole basis of route one is to play long ball - that is what this thread is about. You're not even using slightly more direct let alone extremely direct. Youre also playing a higher line and much more often pressing triggers. I would argue this is closer to a gegenpress than a standard routeone tactic.

Route one football is first and foremost a in possession tactic, meaning that it dictates what you do when you have the ball. Playing with high lines and high press wouldn't be as "pure", but it's still route one as long as you hoof it.

[Hootieleece]

2 hours ago, Jack722 said:

I am on the side that route one football is at least slightly broken. I remember doing a burnley save back when they were under Sean Dyche and a tailor-made 442 hoofball team. 

I am not saying it is perfect, but it does work at least at the lower levels maybe not so much at Premier League Level and remember Dyche eventually got sacked and they went in another direction IRL.

[Jack722]

12 minutes ago, Hootieleece said:

I am not saying it is perfect, but it does work at least at the lower levels maybe not so much at Premier League Level and remember Dyche eventually got sacked and they went in another direction IRL.

They also qualified for Europe finishing 7th and stayed in the prem multiple seasons on probably the lowest budget before being sacked. Now they’ve got kompany playing attacking football and are looking quite likely to be relegated in their first season

[Hootieleece]

2 hours ago, lied90 said:

If by "out of the box" you mean Preset tactics, then yes they are horrible and serve little to no purpose. This says more about the preset tactics than it does about Route One as a style in FM imo. You can play Route One with moderate success, it just doesn't compare to what you can achieve with gegenpress.

Yes, by out of the box I meant Preset Tactics and it seems to be working ok in the VNS. Not World beating but good enough for a top half campaign so far with the squad I posted.

Yes, the Gegen press Preset is OP but then a lot of players want to just win a lot of matches and claim they would be better managers than Guardiola and Klopp.

Also, I do think that the Match Engine favors Gegen press and Tiki-Taka teams in general just look at some of the tactics for download in this forum alone.

[lied90]

16 hours ago, Jack722 said:

They also qualified for Europe finishing 7th and stayed in the prem multiple seasons on probably the lowest budget before being sacked. Now they’ve got kompany playing attacking football and are looking quite likely to be relegated in their first season

You can get European football with very direct passing.

S1

S2

TIs

We vastly over-performed our xG, but it still shows that it's possible in a season that you get a bit lucky, and you need some luck when a large part of your game plan is to be very direct.

 

[TheMartello]

1 hour ago, lied90 said:

You can get European football with very direct passing.

S1

S2

TIs

We vastly over-performed our xG, but it still shows that it's possible in a season that you get a bit lucky, and you need some luck when a large part of your game plan is to be very direct.

 

 

Which formation/player roles do you use?

 

And do you use any player instructions?

[lied90]

1 hour ago, TheMartello said:

Which formation/player roles do you use?

 

And do you use any player instructions?

442 with double DM. I think I posted an early version of the tactic here:

I always use loads of player instructions.

 

[TheMartello]

31 minutes ago, lied90 said:

442 with double DM. I think I posted an early version of the tactic here:

I always use loads of player instructions.

 

 

It´s the same roles?

Can you make an overview please? I would like to try it out!

[Jack722]

23 hours ago, lied90 said:

If by "out of the box" you mean Preset tactics, then yes they are horrible and serve little to no purpose. This says more about the preset tactics than it does about Route One as a style in FM imo. You can play Route One with moderate success, it just doesn't compare to what you can achieve with gegenpress.

 

The fact that most people agree this and that the presets have been left in for multiple years is baffling to me. Especially since they're really shoved in your face when you first start a save. I imagine lots of beginners would choose one of these presets and get immediately battered and therefore not find the game fun. It would be so easy to fix as well.

Also it's not just route one, catenaccio is unusable, so are the counter attacking ones, as well as park the bus. 

 

Edited March 19 by Jack722

[Hootieleece]

Update on my foray into Hoofball with the Preset Tactics some are disparaging.

We were preseason 12th and are now sitting 4rth in the table. We just held the league leaders to a draw. 

Look at the description of the tactics.

We can get results against all sorts of formations but have trouble against 4-4-2's. This is the schedule since the last update.

 

I say yes you can get results from "Hoofball" Tactics but you do need a bit of luck sort of like Burnley/Everton under Dyche. I think it works better at the lower levels of the game than Premier League and my thoughts are the ME reflects this.

[lied90]

On 19/03/2024 at 19:09, TheMartello said:

 

It´s the same roles?

Can you make an overview please? I would like to try it out!

Roles have been more or less the same the whole way, but I changed duties sometimes. In S2 I had Terem Moffi, so changed PF(s) to PF(a). I never used the same tactic for a whole season, so not sure how much good it would do to post it.

The team I had in S2 was generally really good. Route one requires physical players, and the ME really likes physical players. So I think the results are more because of the players you need for route one more than the tactic. The same players can easily play a meta gegenpress and do much better. According the the xG table we should be sixth, but finished third.

[Hootieleece]

As a follow up to my earlier posts I have finished the season in the VNS and finished 2nd and was promoted via the playoffs using the Preset "Route One" Tactics.

 

[lied90]

On 23/03/2024 at 00:01, Hootieleece said:

As a follow up to my earlier posts I have finished the season in the VNS and finished 2nd and was promoted via the playoffs using the Preset "Route One" Tactics.

 

Makes sense that it works better at a low level.

What was the expected points table like?

[Hootieleece]

2 hours ago, lied90 said:

What was the expected points table like?