Minor Tweaks 433, Getting F9 involved?

[dang3rouspeach]

Needed some quick input / advice / fresh set of eyes on this. I will attempt to BOLD the points that I'm confused about. The rest is just ramblings / unneeded backstory probably. 

Was recently promoted - horrible transfer ideas + being promoted  year ahead of the timeline in my head before players really developed have put me in a weird spot. 

In being promoted I played a 442.  Scored a lot on counters from corners and some long passes from WPs. Won a lot of 1-0 games. Against low block it was just smashing crosses / missing headers. So I tried to pivot away from that upon promotion. So I'm guessing my problem with developing possession based tactics is going to be both a quality of player and design of tactics problem. 

Against mid/lower sided teams I've managed to get decent possession 60%+. I get smashed by top 6, but whatever, at this point I'm not concerned about those results. I'm mostly concerned about grinding out enough points against everyone else to stay up for year 2, really figure out what players I need to sign (currently I'm just signing budget guys / prospects that have one or two attributes I like and hoping they develop). 

I attempted reading Herne's post about possession with intent / building his 433 and the total guide to mentality (can't remember who wrote, will try and link them to give proper credit). So I've been using those as guides for trying to use role/duty to drive the attacking runs versus playing on high mentality - and then using TI to get the more aggressive pressing that I'm hoping for.

Heres what I've been attempting to roll with against most teams. I changed from cautious mentality to balanced in hopes of getting more offense, so far its been about the same. Possession has decreased slightly from 70% to mid 60%. 

Usually they pass the ball around the box (which I like, am hoping for). I suspect I need at least one other attack duty from the front 5, but am not sure where the attack should come from. At some point I've tried an attack duty on all of them (IFa + Wa, APa+ IWa, IFa + CMa.... etc etc) hoping to generate one additional runner into the box once we start passing around. 

Rationale for the front 5

AML role/duty - I've attempted IFa/s and IWa/s for the AML, and havent seen him really be dangerous to score. On support he doesn't seem to make the runs, and on attack he still seems to get the ball too far from goal to do much, but with attack duty he goes off on solo runs and seems to just turn the ball over. I honestly thought maybe the raudmentor role would work for that position since I want him to just finish moves.

ST - I feel like the whole idea is based around this guy being able to manipulate defenders / pull them out of position. Maguire has good (15?) off the ball and anticipation + team work. In game he I feel like he plays extremely static, once the ball is in the attacking third he stands like a statue. His traits of comes deep, plays one twos, I feel like would combine perfectly to help break down teams. 

AMR - I dont really know what I want from this role to be honest. Neither of the guys I have for it are very good imo - low mentals and low technicals. Barkhuezian is right footed so hes a winger, the other guy is left footed so he plays inverted winger. I'm unsure if they should be on support or attack duty. I want them to run into and attack the channel between cb/fb. But I dont really want them to dribble / be on the ball too much.

CML - APs.. Highest flair on team, decent (14+) passing, technicals and vision. Feel like if anyone is gonna pick out a pass cuts through the defense it will be him. Still unsure of the difference really between APa/s in terms of gameplay.. I want him to occupy zone 14 and play passes from there, I havent really figured out how exactly to get him there.

CMR - CMs, decent all around player without outstanding technicals or mentals.. I want him just hold possession when the ball comes to him. I've experimented with him as the additional runner with a CMa role. Have also tried as a b2b with get forward more ticked for PI. 

I want the F9 to pull a defender out of position and then have the IFa attack that space and have my midfielders hit him with a pass. Or if there some way to combine a wide player with the F9 and AP, I'm all for that to give and go our way into the box. 

Why is the false nine not involved at all???? How do I get him involved?

Two passes received in 60 minutes not from a throw in?? I feel like him dropping deep and doing a give and go with the AP or the CM should give him a chance to get into the box? If he drops deep and receives the pass, cant he then play in my IFa?

I have short passing ticked so I feel like the team should be using him in the buildup. The attacks usually end up with the midfielders passing amongst themselves then one of them will hit it wide to the Ws or IFa. Probably because I have wide ticked for team width - I want them wide for spacing, do I need to tick play through the middle?

 

Thanks for reading, hopefully there is some simple fix that I've just overlooked that someone can point out. Lack of player quality is definitely part of it. Am trying to get the system in place and then will train / recruit towards it. 

[Experienced Defender]

You use very possession-oriented team instructions - except for the wide attacking width and counter - but your setup of roles and duties is not suited to possession football. That's the major problem with your tactic IMHO.

18 minutes ago, dang3rouspeach said:

Why is the false nine not involved at all????

One potential reason could be the aforementioned wide attacking width, which encourages greater use of flanks compared to central areas. But the contradiction between your instructions and roles/duties is still the key issue. 

[dang3rouspeach]

could you elaborate on that? In my head the roles/duties are setup to help with possession? Most of the players are on support (which I thought was key for helping retain possession)

Support keeps up with play / provides a 'safe' passing option, While attack tends to make forward runs and a riskier passing option?

[Experienced Defender]

1 minute ago, dang3rouspeach said:

Could you elaborate on that? In my head the roles/duties are setup to help with possession?

Duties are okay (except for the lack of sufficient central penetration). But roles are the problem - most notably of the fullbacks. FB on support is a bit too conservative role to offer proper wide support in advanced stages of attack, which is essential for possession-minded tactics. 

[Johnny Ace]

That looks decent, could maybe afford the CM on attack & maybe the LB as a WB(S) 

& yeah, lose the Width to see if it brings a bit more involvement for the F9 

[dang3rouspeach]

Will try those adjustments. I was opting for fb on support to try and limit the crosses. I cant figure out how to get them forward and then not mash crosses. Even with cross less ticked, they still hit it into the middle more than id like.  Any thoughts on what might be a better role for the AMR? The winger(s) seems to do okay. almost wondered if i should do CMs -> mezzala(s/a) to pair with the space of the winger.

[Johnny Ace]

6 minutes ago, dang3rouspeach said:

Will try those adjustments. I was opting for fb on support to try and limit the crosses. I cant figure out how to get them forward and then not mash crosses. Even with cross less ticked, they still hit it into the middle more than id like.  Any thoughts on what might be a better role for the AMR? The winger(s) seems to do okay. almost wondered if i should do CMs -> mezzala(s/a) to pair with the space of the winger.

Yeah, could do the Mezz - Winger combo 

The crossing can be annoying be he should have options to pass to the IF or CM, so keep your eye on it. Pace can be a problem sometimes, if the WB's rapid & the guys in the middle aren't, they might struggle to keep up with him . The odd cross isn't always a bad thing either

[dang3rouspeach]

After making a few of those adjustments (width to narrow, ticked off counter, cm(s) -> cm(a) we ended up with this goal. Probably one the better fm goals I've been able to produce. Was able to end with the playmaker playing the f9 through. 

In general the fullbacks, set to WBs and WBd pushed up a bit higher and there were a few more crosses. Crosses didn't feel excessive. 

Suggestions were very helpful towards getting the team playing more the way I wanted! 

[zabyl]

6 hours ago, dang3rouspeach said:

I was opting for fb on support to try and limit the crosses. I cant figure out how to get them forward and then not mash crosses. Even with cross less ticked, they still hit it into the middle more than id like.

Because you play with a wide attacking width. They tend to go wider and cross too much with that TI. If you want width from attackers; I suggest you to use PIs for width if you want your F9 and central players to involve more. Setting an attacking width effects every member of your team and their playing style of course.

Using a playmaker/mezzala with opposite CM position of IFs/a can help to balance risk distribution. (passing/dribbling). If your AP has good dribbling, mobility and off the ball you can try him in a RPMs role.

Try to change LB role to a more supportive one. (WBs can be quiet good.)

You can use overlap/underlap on the right to overload that area with your conservative wide players.

This tactic is not prepared bad. It can give you what you want with a few gentle touches.

Edited March 14, 2021 by zabyl
corrected missing letter

[zabyl]

12 minutes ago, dang3rouspeach said:

After making a few of those adjustments (width to narrow

I don't propose going extreme about attacking width. You can try to experiment & adapt game by game. all of the teams don't play with the same defensive shape. Using a narrow attacking width against a 2DM team can cause a feeling of hitting an iron wall.