5-3-2 FM20

[fil.jasz]

Hello,

I play Manchester United and I tried to make control-possession tactics. Unfortunately I struggled scoring goals against weaker teams, ending up losing 0:1 but also had problems with certain strong teams (Liverpool, Arsenal) while destroying other (Man City, Tottenham). I applied some changes and now it looks like this (pictures). 

1) I am still not 100% satisfied with the results. Sometimes still struggling with weaker teams, but less often, and I still have problems with some teams (now Arsenal and Everton). Do you have any ideas how to help me?
2) Another problem is very chimeric performance of forwards - they score 3 goals in one game, then can't score in 3-4 games. I tried different combinations of roles (AF and PF, AF and DLF, 2x PF, 2x AF). Currently my top scorer is Telles.
3) Also I am not happy with my defense. I would like to defend with lower line but it does not work. I would like to let defenders play as long as they want but attack as soon as ball gets to midfielders, also I would like to mark tightly players on my half. I dont know how to choose instructions in order to play this way. Could you help?

[Experienced Defender]

59 minutes ago, fil.jasz said:

I play Manchester United and I tried to make control-possession tactics

Your formation (5122) is too bottom-heavy for any possession-oriented style of play to be feasible. That's the fist obvious problem in relation to what you want to achieve.

On top of that, Utd is a top team, so I really don't see any reason to use that type of formation when managing them.

[fil.jasz]

37 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Your formation (5122) is too bottom-heavy for any possession-oriented style of play to be feasible. That's the fist obvious problem in relation to what you want to achieve.

On top of that, Utd is a top team, so I really don't see any reason to use that type of formation when managing them.

On the one hand I can see what you mean, it looks defensive, but on the other hand I had second highest avg possession in my first season and most passes in the league. I love playing with 3 CB and no wingers. Earlier I tried 5-2-2-1 but I had problems with scoring and thought that 2 strikers will solve the problem. I know that the most successful tactics are gegenpressing but honestly I don't feel like playing it.
This tactics is quite successful in 3 seasons I won 2x carabao cup, 1x Champions League and 1x Premier League, but I wanted to better understand the game and learn how to solve problems (I never had a player who scored more than 30 goals in all competitions).

[Jervaj]

Umm, in one hand I agree with Experienced defender. If you look for cotnrol/possesion the formation seems like a very odd pick, even if it can work for a top team. True that given your roles and TI its likely that most of your team will end quite far forward on their half when you attack. Still, you have a notable space between midfield and attack with a slightly higher tempo, so, while I will need to watch your matches to know, it feels like your transitions may very well look like totally different from your overall design and intent. May be compensated a bit by the fact that you defend high and may recover the ball further up the pitch, so the midfield starts closer, but in any case th tactic feels like it will lead to attack well placed defences all the time.

This is something you may be able to overcome due to the quality of a top side but still, has other implciations. You are going full gegenpress (attacking mentality, and max pressing urgency and LoE) with agressive wingers, yet there is only 2 bodies really up the field for the initial press. Your midfielders will likely press a lot too, but this space I mentioned may hurt too in the transitions against you, rendering your press not that much effective as they are likely to always have passing outlets. You mention your defence problems, and I find normal that using the lower defence line as you tired hurts you even more in this case, as while it would help against through balls it will further increase the space for the opposition to get around your already undermanned press.

 

 

I happen to be using a similar formation to yours (Narrow 5-3-2, basically like yours but with the SDs are in fullback position) with a top team, even if maybe not as much as Man. Utd (AZ Roma) and while I have needed some tweaks over the season is working really well. Thing is my focus is really different with big differences in roles and TIs. I mostly defend on my half, inviting my opposition to come forward while I hit them quickly and deadly, be it in the counter or been overall agressive when I have the possesion. Not neccesarilly hoofballing though. I have the lowest possesion of the league, yet I most certainly don't lack chances. I score both high in total shots and goals. Having specifically the most shots on target and the highest XG. Matches where I dont score are an oddity through there is always one odd match here and there where I get the feel (while watching the match) our attack struggles a bit compared to the norm, not getting many decent chances. But that's to be expected with any tactic I feel. You aren't going to steamroll every match. 

Both my strikers score plenty. None get to very high numbers due goals been shared, but they are quite consistent ad I do have matches evry now and tehn with 3-4 goals. I only had 1 out of the main 4 in the frist team that didnt scored as much for a while (he was also injured the most which didn't help), but he was still contributing a lot creating chances and giving out assists so I wasn't worried, and he still ended scoring more towards the end of the season.

 

Now that the ideas are laid out my tips are the following:

- First and foremost, have a clear idea what you want to see in the pitch and everytime you select a role or TI/PI think on how that works towards that objective in combination with everything else that you have set around it.

- In matches notice the things you don't like and try to adress them with small tweaks so you can actually observe the individual changes repercussions. Keep in mind that a change in one place may easily require changes down the line due to the mutual interaction.

- If you want a possesion based style and shorter passing, I would really consider using an AMC. You really need to reduce the space between your lines on attack. Probably one of the CDs is the most ovbious place to get it. If you really wanted to stick to the formation at least have the "deep" forward on support so he can make the connection better. I feel like even then you may have problems in the wings regarding the high press as there is likely to either be space in front or behind the wingbacks.  You will have to observe how it behaves to see what are your specific problems.

- Tied with the above, regarding the attacking pair that you comment. This is not a hard rule but I would avoid too similar roles/duties, specially in such a bottom heavy formation. I feel like combinations tend to work better so they move differently, stretch the defence better and pose different challenges to the opposition, specially if they are likely to be a bit isolated like in this case. Having them on the same job (specially spearheading focused ones) may disconnect them even further from the team and not support each other as well as both are trying to do the same thing. A very forward thinking one and a more holding/build up one tend to work well.

- Consider lowering the LoE one notch. This while still make you press very high (due to the other TI) but may help compressing a bit your shape and reducing space. As everything you will need to osberve though, as some very attacking forwards like AF still can stay quite farther up from the rest even with lower LoE.

- Remove prevent short GK distribution. First, because its unlikely your team can pull out this TI effectively. Its going to be mostly your 2 forwards and the GK is likely to have at least 3-4 short distribution otpions. And second, because even if you managed the GK to play longer more often I dont know if it will benefit you much given how high you are trying to press. Through balls tend to be one of the major threats of high lines even if you may be a bit better off in this case due to the bottom heaviness.

 

[isignedupfornorealreason]

On 02/02/2021 at 23:48, fil.jasz said:

On the one hand I can see what you mean, it looks defensive, but on the other hand I had second highest avg possession in my first season and most passes in the league. I love playing with 3 CB and no wingers. Earlier I tried 5-2-2-1 but I had problems with scoring and thought that 2 strikers will solve the problem. I know that the most successful tactics are gegenpressing but honestly I don't feel like playing it.
This tactics is quite successful in 3 seasons I won 2x carabao cup, 1x Champions League and 1x Premier League, but I wanted to better understand the game and learn how to solve problems (I never had a player who scored more than 30 goals in all competitions).

Looks too aggressive to me. Plus, two strikers on attack duty. I find you'll have more luck if you balance the attacking sections out a bit more, and as a result of that you'll probably end up with a striker (the AF most likely) that will be a focal point, which should lead to the 30+ goal a season striker.

 

Basically, try and slow things down more so that you have time to get your deeper players up to meet with the strikers, otherwise it'll be fairly direct, even if you have decent possession statistics if that makes sense?