Help needed with 4-3-2-1 - Not scoring enough

[Powello]

Hey guys, been a while since I last posted as I have had a long break from FM. But now I am back and playing fm 14. Bit of a change.

So I have created a 4-3-2-1 formation for my leamington side so far its not too bad and I have finally stopped the goals conceded from set pieces, not completely but enough to not be too much of a problem as it was earlier in the season when the only goals we conceded were from set pieces.and cost us so many points.

My problem now is we aren't scoring enough goals from open play.

Here is my set up:

GK (D)

FB R (Support) CB (D) CB (D) FB L (Support)

CM (A) DLP (D) BBM (Support)

Winger (Support) IF (A)

AF (A)

Team Instructions:

Run at defence

Shorter Passing

Stay on feet

Stand off

Play out of defence

Much deeper defensive line

Hit early crosses

Float crosses

Player instructions:

GK(D): Pass it shorter, Distribute to defenders

FBR/L(S): Pass it shorter, fewer risky passes, mark tighter, cross aim centre

CBs(D): Pass it shorter, mark tighter

DLP(D): Pass it shorter, fewer risky passes, close down more

CM(A): Pass it shorter,close down more, roam from position

BBM(S): Pass it shorter, close down more

Winger(S): Cross aim far post, mark tighter

IF(A): Pass it shorter, fewer risky passes,Cross aim centre, mark tighter

AF(A): Pass shorter, move into channels

Mentality: Standard

Fluidity: Fluid

Team Instructions:

Shorter passing

Play out of defence

hit early crosses

float crosses

run at defence

much deeper defence line

stand off opponents

stay on feet

So at the moment the defending side is pretty good, we barely concede from open play, but we are barely scoring from open play or even having good attacks. I have been racking my brains to figure it out but, maybe as I am ill and tired and can't think properly, I can't come up with an answer.

I have tried changing mentalities but if we go to attacking we get destroyed at the back, saying that no matter what mentality other than standard we get found out at the back. I am only Leamington remember, One of the worst teams you can start off with in England so not the best players in the world.

So I was hoping someone could give me a few ideas of things to change and try out. If I have missed anything that is needed to help please let me know, thanks

[llama3]

First of all, get well soon.

• You are alreayd asking your team to play shorter passing, why have you given them all individual instructions too? Your team is too busy retaining the ball to try attacking effectively.
  
• You could try getting your full backs forward more - your winger on the right is a support duty, with a supporting full back behind him - 1 of these should really be attacking, recommend the full back because on the other side...
  
• The other flank has an inside forward attack, maybe a wing back support would help, this mixes the duties up and causes better movement between lines.
  
• Why have players got cross aims to different places, they are all aiming for the same bloke! Feed him in the way that suits him with the team instructions.
  
• Why are you asking players to try less risky passes? It's another reason you create so little - the players are too afraid to try anything. It's ok for some positions, but a DLP is MEANT to play risky passes, and the full back's when they are high up the pitch need that licence for late through-balls or crosses.
  
• Your team has many players asked to close down more, despite your team's very deep line & stand off approach - contradictory? Or to help alleviate an extreme approach?
  
• Otherwise frankly you've actually built it very well, especially noted in the fact you rarely concede.

[Telemachos]

@llama3 but why not keep the FB:S, change the winger to attack and the BxB to CM:Support?

To the OP:

Overall my take, this formation is way too defensive and kind of what was mentioned above, there aren't enough chances being created. I almost just want to say, why not just play Defensive mentality?

For playing in the lower leagues, you gotta keep it a lot simpler for your little guys running around. In my opinion, you got too much instruction you don't need. Pick a formation, pick a mentality and philosophy, then just adjust the position for the players ability. Really, Keep It Simple... With lower leagues, I think it is simply best to play a balanced formation that your squad allows, 4-4-2, 4-3-2-1... things like that.

At Skrill North, no one is good enough to play BxB well and you should refine the role to better fit your players. Really, I recommend making your DLP: D into a CM: D and your BxB to either a DLP: S or a CM: S. Personally, I wouldn't play a playmaker unless you have a older player with good mentality. Also Fluid, more ridged philosophies tend to do better at lower leagues.

Your AML, the Inside Forward- does he have a very strong right foot? I am assuming he is a AMR that can play AML.

Why do you think your players need to take less risky passes? As well as shorter?

I am assuming your are relegation candidates at the start of the season. Other teams are going to come at you hard. Your formation doesn't concede much because it is really turtling up in my opinion which is properly reflected in your ability to score. Much deeper defensive line is very extreme which the tooltip of it basically says your defensive line is pretty much already in the box. You have play out of defense but I doubt anyone in your defensive line is great at defending and passing.

Float crosses are for: 1) If your STC has great jumping and heading and 2) taller than your opponents defenders.

Stay on feet: if your team is poor at tackling hard and/or faster paced soccer.

Stand off opponents: I feel this is generally right for keeping your defensive shape and less technically able teams- so right in this case.

Run at defense: this is really dependent on whether you want to play this kind of ball and whether your opponent stands off.

Look at your match and analyze the stats. Look at pass percentages, look at fouls- just start looking at each position subjectively. I would start with your key player, the person you want to build your team around. Basically are they doing what you want them to be doing. Generally, I start in the back and work my way up imaging where the ball is supposed to go next.

[llama3]

Because he floats crosses - a Winger(S) delivers them earlier which suits floated crosses. Floated crosses are not as effective from the byline. See no reasons to change the BBM, I find it generally superior to an MC(S) as long as the player has the engine for it.

[Powello]

First of all, get well soon.

• You are alreayd asking your team to play shorter passing, why have you given them all individual instructions too? Your team is too busy retaining the ball to try attacking effectively.
  
• You could try getting your full backs forward more - your winger on the right is a support duty, with a supporting full back behind him - 1 of these should really be attacking, recommend the full back because on the other side...
  
• The other flank has an inside forward attack, maybe a wing back support would help, this mixes the duties up and causes better movement between lines.
  
• Why have players got cross aims to different places, they are all aiming for the same bloke! Feed him in the way that suits him with the team instructions.
  
• Why are you asking players to try less risky passes? It's another reason you create so little - the players are too afraid to try anything. It's ok for some positions, but a DLP is MEANT to play risky passes, and the full back's when they are high up the pitch need that licence for late through-balls or crosses.
  
• Your team has many players asked to close down more, despite your team's very deep line & stand off approach - contradictory? Or to help alleviate an extreme approach?
  
• Otherwise frankly you've actually built it very well, especially noted in the fact you rarely concede.

Thank you llama, so do I haha, no one likes being sick

1) The reason I put them on shorter passing individually was because, even though I had them set to shorter passing in team instructions, they still just hoofed it, even if there was a free man nearby

2)Hmm, for some reason that had completly skipped my mind, thanks for pointing that out, I will have to look at my full backs capabilities on either side, plus my winger/IF and see which is the best combination.

3) Haha, I hadn't even noticed that they were set to cross to different places. I'm guessing I did it at first to mix up the attacks or something.

4) The less risky passes was for the same reason I did shorter passing on each player, they kept hoofing it even though there were players open within short distances. I am guessing there must be something else I've set which makes them do that, either that or its because they are rubbish players.

5) I set them to close down more as I wanted to stop counter attacks and keep it tight at the back. I guess only a few players need it really.

6) Thank you, I just hope I can keep the defence as solid when I make the changes to get the attacks going.

Do you think I have the player roles right? The one I'm not sure about is the striker.

[Powello]

@llama3 but why not keep the FB:S, change the winger to attack and the BxB to CM:Support?

To the OP:

Overall my take, this formation is way too defensive and kind of what was mentioned above, there aren't enough chances being created. I almost just want to say, why not just play Defensive mentality?

For playing in the lower leagues, you gotta keep it a lot simpler for your little guys running around. In my opinion, you got too much instruction you don't need. Pick a formation, pick a mentality and philosophy, then just adjust the position for the players ability. Really, Keep It Simple... With lower leagues, I think it is simply best to play a balanced formation that your squad allows, 4-4-2, 4-3-2-1... things like that.

At Skrill North, no one is good enough to play BxB well and you should refine the role to better fit your players. Really, I recommend making your DLP: D into a CM: D and your BxB to either a DLP: S or a CM: S. Personally, I wouldn't play a playmaker unless you have a older player with good mentality. Also Fluid, more ridged philosophies tend to do better at lower leagues.

Your AML, the Inside Forward- does he have a very strong right foot? I am assuming he is a AMR that can play AML.

Why do you think your players need to take less risky passes? As well as shorter?

I am assuming your are relegation candidates at the start of the season. Other teams are going to come at you hard. Your formation doesn't concede much because it is really turtling up in my opinion which is properly reflected in your ability to score. Much deeper defensive line is very extreme which the tooltip of it basically says your defensive line is pretty much already in the box. You have play out of defense but I doubt anyone in your defensive line is great at defending and passing.

Float crosses are for: 1) If your STC has great jumping and heading and 2) taller than your opponents defenders.

Stay on feet: if your team is poor at tackling hard and/or faster paced soccer.

Stand off opponents: I feel this is generally right for keeping your defensive shape and less technically able teams- so right in this case.

Run at defense: this is really dependent on whether you want to play this kind of ball and whether your opponent stands off.

Look at your match and analyze the stats. Look at pass percentages, look at fouls- just start looking at each position subjectively. I would start with your key player, the person you want to build your team around. Basically are they doing what you want them to be doing. Generally, I start in the back and work my way up imaging where the ball is supposed to go next.

At the start of the tactic building process I like to get the defence sorted first then work on that base.

I don't agree things need to be simple at lower levels. Yes the players are technically worse and less capable than ta higer levels, but so are the opposition. When you have poor players like mine, sometimes it can take just one of them to break from the norm and open a team up changing the game. I bought the players in, that I could, to fit this tactic, so my swuad allows it. The tactic just needs a few tweaks as I can see promise, or else I would of given up and tried another one.

Personally I have tried DLP and CM and the DLP plays better. I have a couple of players that are suited for the AP at this level, although I am experimenting with a CM A there instead. SO far the AP has done better but it's early days.

I am on my third season on this save, the first 2 and a bit were spent on a rigid fluidity, and even though we stayed up both seasons the football wasn't how I wanted it. Since the change to fluid, all the players are playing much better and we are defending much better and also attacking better. Which shows how bad it was before haha. I was using other tactics though.

My IF is actually an AML with a have decent right foot. BUt he vary rarely shoots with the right foot to cause an issue there, he usually cuts inside and crosses it. If I could actually attract a decent right footed player to play there then I would play him. I have tried usinf the AML asan IF on the right and it doesn't work, so I am improvising and working with what I have. He does quite well out there.

We are relegation favorites each year, that is the reason I set them up as I did, to be strong defensively and work from there. The pan was to frustrate the opposition by keeping the ball and open them up.

Hmm why do I have it set to float crosses? my striker is neither tall or good at heading, in fact none of them are haha. This is why I like other peoples input, especially when I am ill and my heads all over the place. I see I have missed quite a few things.

Yeah, I look at the stats after most games, unless I win convincingly. I should really do it on them aswell.

Thank you

[llama3]

Mate i think your general structure is very good, excellent mix of creativity, movement, runs etc - except in aforementioned full back slots.

The hoofing bit is almost certainly because they are rubbish players, but keep an eye in game if a player of yours seems to have too few passing options etc.

As for the forward - it depends on your philosophy (more specialist roles, play more rigid) as to what is open to you - but an Advanced Forward is a sound default. Consider Deep Lying Forward if he needs to come and link up more. With an IF(A) coming in from the flanks you can play a DLF(S), CF(S), F9(S) etc much easier.

[Powello]

Thanks, I have adjusted the full backs so will see how they work out. I am at the start of the season at the friendly stage so a good time to test things.

I spend a lot of the time in game, shouting at my laptop as if I am a proper manager of a proper team haha. If I see a player hoof it when there's an easy option on, or someone fails to pass it when the through ball is on, I swear my housemates must think I am mad ha.

I shall watch him a bit more and see what he does.

After 3 seasons of battling relegation and only just staying up, I am determined to get at least a comfortable mid table position to build on. It's not good having the board on your back all the time to get a certain amount of points in a certain amount of games to stay in the job.

[llama3]

I seriously do not think you have many flaws in your system. If you are good defensively you will stay up. No-one ever got relegated with a good defence (correct me if I am wrong).

[Powello]

Well so far, 2 friendlies, 2 4-0 wins with the changes and some good attacking football. But it's only friendlies so will see how it goes in the league.

I don't think you are wrong. If a team did get relegated with a good defence then they must of smashed a lot of mirrors

[Telemachos]

Ultimately, it's the end results and if you are happy playing it, go with it.

I don't know if anyone has been relegated with a good defense, but I know to win matches, you need to put points on the board and I doubt there is any Johan Cruyff's lurking on the benches at the Brakes.

If you are on your third season, and you are still relegation candidates in Skrill North, you might want to look a little more at your overall approach (unless you want to stay at that level). Maybe try to get some talent on loan, maybe that AML you are looking for.

Also, there are no bad players... even yours at your level. I prefer to play lower leagues and will probably start Dafuge's challenge here shortly. Last year I took Hendon forward with FM13. It's more about getting the most out of your players especially since you just can't open your wallet.

[Powello]

I definatly don't want to stay at this level, Since the changes I've made the results have improved and we are more mid table now but they are still not good enough.

There is absolutely no one I can get on loan that are even anywhere near as good as the players I have let alone better so thats not an option. We have been taken over nd the new chairman has given me 1.5m to spend LOL but still I can't attract anyone decent enough. I think my squad is good enough to go for playoffs but I just can't get them performing how I want them to.

I am testing a few new changes I thought of at the moment so wll see how they go but it's a struggle. But I wanted a challenge and I love taking teams from the bottom to the top, I have done it multiple teams on previous versions so am determined to succeed again on this years release.