Getting most out of Training

[Sammie B]

Right i know there are loads of threads out of there which i have read but still confused. Some say do intense training on weak attributes others say keep the schedule balanced.

For example i read on a thread a post by SFraser saying each notch on each training category should represent the number of trainable attributes. So if anyone could help be much appreciated

[Cleon]

http://www.community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=70803

http://www.community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=184474

Tell you all you need to know tbh. Id take more notice of Sfraser than anyone else on training though.

[Sammie B]

http://www.community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=70803

http://www.community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=184474

Tell you all you need to know tbh. Id take more notice of Sfraser than anyone else on training though.

Yeah read through all these so long and contradicting opinions guess its a case of trial and error

[Sammie B]

So between ages 18-21 intense physical training as this is time when it develops the most?

Then 21- onwards work on the mental and technical side more reducing the physical training?

So for example Abou Diaby he physical stats are very good and hes 23 so medium physical training and higher technical and mental training

[phnompenhandy]

Yes Sammie - you got it.

[Sammie B]

Yes Sammie - you got it.

Excellent how intense should the physical training be whilst still keeping training balanced?

[phnompenhandy]

People often say top notch of medium, but I think it depends on the player. Ones with high workload and stamina, and low injury proneness can cope with more. The areas that cause most injuries are the fitness ones - don't put them too high. If the regime is for older players and the str/aer is quite low, you can knock the others up high with little risk.

[SFraser]

Right i know there are loads of threads out of there which i have read but still confused. Some say do intense training on weak attributes others say keep the schedule balanced.

For example i read on a thread a post by SFraser saying each notch on each training category should represent the number of trainable attributes. So if anyone could help be much appreciated

If you construct a schedule where for example each Category is at the exact same number of notches, you should in theory be distributing the same quantity of CA into each Category, yet at the same time each Category contains different numbers of Attributes therefore each Attribute is getting unequal quantities of CA.

To achieve a balanced shedule therefore you must construct a schedule placing the same quantity of CA into each attribute. This requires a schedule constructed on the basis of attribute numbers per category.

However the caveat is that Training as I understand it takes no account for player Age and Position Attribute Weights. The Training Panels on the Player Training screen simply tells you what the Schedule is doing with CA, it does not tell you how the player himself utilises CA.

For each attribute in each player there is a Position factor and an Age factor. The Position factor determines how much CA an attribute requires relative to other attributes in order to increase. The Age factor determines how "receptive" each attribute Category is to CA, effectively determining the natural ratio of redistribution of CA between Categories.

If we ignore the Age factor and have a little thought experiment using a Central Midfielder, his Aerobic attributes may be anywhere from 2 to 4 times "Heavier" than his Defending Attributes. This means that each Aerobic attribute requires say 2 times more CA to increase than his Defending attributes. If we want to increase his Aerobic attributes faster than his Defending attributes then we cannot simply place his Aerobic category above his defending Category because his Aerobic Category contains 2x the number of attributes. If we place his Defending at notch 3 and his Aerobic at notch 6 then we are simply sharing the same quantity of CA amongst each attribute. We have to place his Aerobic Category much higher than this. However his Aerobic Category contains attributes that require 2x the quantity of CA compared to his Defending to increase. This means to achieve the same rate of increase his Aerobic must be a notch 12 and his Defending at notch 3.

If we want to double the rate of increase of this players Aerobic attributes compared to his Defending attributes we must place his Aerobic training at notch 24 or one notch away from maximum while his Defending remains at notch 3 or 3 notches above minimum. This is quite simply a huge degree of difference and goes a long way to explaining the constant, userbase wide problem of increasing Physical attributes.

If we factor Age into the equation things change. At a young Age our Central Midfielder's Physical Attributes are very receptive to CA while his Technical and Mental attributes are not. What this means essentially is that at a young Age his Physical Attributes naturally receive more CA. If we combine this to our Training Schedule of Intensive Aerobic we should expect to see his Aerobic Attributes increase at 3 or more time his other attributes.

At an old Age his Physical attributes are significantly less receptive to CA compared to all other attributes and actively shed CA while the other attributes are receptive to CA and suck it all up. This means that our hugely Intensive Aerobic Schedule of notch position 24 versus notch position 3 may only neutralise the decline of his Aerobic Attributes.

This means ultimately that no matter how great your Training schedules are, you cannot prevent the inevitable impact of Age in destroying your players Physical Attributes. This cannot be stopped because of A: how many attributes exist in physical categories, B: the high relative weights of Physical attributes compared to others, C: the effect of Age in increasingly forcing CA out of Physical Attributes through natural redistribution.

The Training screens show you how all the Training modifiers are functioning, from Coach attributes to Training facilities to Training Schedule Slider Positions. The Training Progress screen shows you that your Training is taking CA out of X category and putting it into Y Category.

However these screens do not take into account Player Position Attribute Weights nor Age. You can take every available point of CA out of every single Category and pump it into a players Strength and he will still lose Stamina eventually.

[ron.e]

If you construct a schedule where for example each Category is at the exact same number of notches, you should in theory be distributing the same quantity of CA into each Category, yet at the same time each Category contains different numbers of Attributes therefore each Attribute is getting unequal quantities of CA.

To achieve a balanced shedule therefore you must construct a schedule placing the same quantity of CA into each attribute. This requires a schedule constructed on the basis of attribute numbers per category.

However the caveat is that Training as I understand it takes no account for player Age and Position Attribute Weights. The Training Panels on the Player Training screen simply tells you what the Schedule is doing with CA, it does not tell you how the player himself utilises CA.

For each attribute in each player there is a Position factor and an Age factor. The Position factor determines how much CA an attribute requires relative to other attributes in order to increase. The Age factor determines how "receptive" each attribute Category is to CA, effectively determining the natural ratio of redistribution of CA between Categories.

If we ignore the Age factor and have a little thought experiment using a Central Midfielder, his Aerobic attributes may be anywhere from 2 to 4 times "Heavier" than his Defending Attributes. This means that each Aerobic attribute requires say 2 times more CA to increase than his Defending attributes. If we want to increase his Aerobic attributes faster than his Defending attributes then we cannot simply place his Aerobic category above his defending Category because his Aerobic Category contains 2x the number of attributes. If we place his Defending at notch 3 and his Aerobic at notch 6 then we are simply sharing the same quantity of CA amongst each attribute. We have to place his Aerobic Category much higher than this. However his Aerobic Category contains attributes that require 2x the quantity of CA compared to his Defending to increase. This means to achieve the same rate of increase his Aerobic must be a notch 12 and his Defending at notch 3.

If we want to double the rate of increase of this players Aerobic attributes compared to his Defending attributes we must place his Aerobic training at notch 24 or one notch away from maximum while his Defending remains at notch 3 or 3 notches above minimum. This is quite simply a huge degree of difference and goes a long way to explaining the constant, userbase wide problem of increasing Physical attributes.

If we factor Age into the equation things change. At a young Age our Central Midfielder's Physical Attributes are very receptive to CA while his Technical and Mental attributes are not. What this means essentially is that at a young Age his Physical Attributes naturally receive more CA. If we combine this to our Training Schedule of Intensive Aerobic we should expect to see his Aerobic Attributes increase at 3 or more time his other attributes.

At an old Age his Physical attributes are significantly less receptive to CA compared to all other attributes and actively shed CA while the other attributes are receptive to CA and suck it all up. This means that our hugely Intensive Aerobic Schedule of notch position 24 versus notch position 3 may only neutralise the decline of his Aerobic Attributes.

This means ultimately that no matter how great your Training schedules are, you cannot prevent the inevitable impact of Age in destroying your players Physical Attributes. This cannot be stopped because of A: how many attributes exist in physical categories, B: the high relative weights of Physical attributes compared to others, C: the effect of Age in increasingly forcing CA out of Physical Attributes through natural redistribution.

The Training screens show you how all the Training modifiers are functioning, from Coach attributes to Training facilities to Training Schedule Slider Positions. The Training Progress screen shows you that your Training is taking CA out of X category and putting it into Y Category.

However these screens do not take into account Player Position Attribute Weights nor Age. You can take every available point of CA out of every single Category and pump it into a players Strength and he will still lose Stamina eventually.

Sfraser - In effect, what you are saying is, if i have a 17yrs old striker and he has pace and accelaration of 10, I need to put his aerobic training at least last notch of medium or even high if i want it to get to 15 and 15?

And if i have a 31 year old striker who has pace and acceleration of 14 and 14 then there is not much point trying to max it out any more and what i should do is to put his aerobic training on first notch or medium (maybe) and try and max out elsewhere? Thanks

[SFraser]

Sfraser - In effect, what you are saying is, if i have a 17yrs old striker and he has pace and accelaration of 10, I need to put his aerobic training at least last notch of medium or even high if i want it to get to 15 and 15?

Not really.

If you have a 17 year old Striker than you have a player with several key features:

1: The amount of CA required to increase each Attribute will follow a specific pattern, the general pattern being that the more important an attribute is to a position the more CA it requires to increase.

2: Your player will be in a position where he has a lot of CA to gain and can potentially gain most of it in a short period of time.

3: Your player will be in a position where it is relatively easy to add CA to his Physical Attributes.

Pace and Acceleration for a Striker are important attributes, therefore they will require more CA than usual to increase. Physical attributes usually require more CA anyway, so for this particular player these attributes will be even harder to increase in terms of quantity of CA required. Because he is young, his Physical Attributes will have a tendency to receive more CA than usual. This does not alter how much CA is needed to increase his attributes, it only alters how much CA those attributes are getting.

Putting his Aerobic Training at the last notch of Medium is completely irrelevant. Look at this Screenshot.

Do you see how his Aerobic is at the second last notch possible yet has the same Training Panel arrow as his Defending which is about half way? At the same time all of his Defending Attributes have gone up by a point while only 2 of the 6 Aerobic attributes have increased?

Look at his Attacking Training. It is at notch 3 on the schedule while Aerobic is at notch 25. Yet 50% of his Attacking Attributes have increased while only 33% of his Aerobic Attributes have increased. Yet his Attacking Arrow is non existant while his Aerobic is upwards and green.

What do you think would have happened to this guy if his Aerobic was at the last notch of Medium?

What would have happened is that Training would not have redistributed any additional CA to this Category at the same time as his awesome International Match CA gain would have added 50% or less Attribute increases for the CA added to the attributes.

Had this lad been on the last notch of Medium Aerobic then it is quite likely that even though he gained heaps of CA in a short space of time through Match Experience, his Aerobic attributes would simply have not gone up at all.

If he was on the last notch of Medium for Aerobic and ZERO training for everything else, then instead of no CA being redistributed into his Aerobic, all his CA being manipulated by Training would have gone into Aerobic. He would still have gained points in his other attributes due to his dramatic CA gain overpowering Training redistribution, but everything that was being shifted by Training would go into his Aerobic attributes.

You need to understand ratios. His Aerobic category has 6 attributes and requires 2x CA to improve. His Attacking Category has 2 Attributes and requires 1x CA to improve. To keep his Aerobic Attributes improving by the same amount, you need to pump 2x CA into each Attribute and 6x CA into the Aerobic Category. Just to keep pace.

Add Age into the equation and things change. The CA required per attribute remains the same, the number of attributes per category is the same, but the natural distribution of CA is not the same. Physical Attributes at a young age might get 2x CA compared to Mental Attributes which cancels out the 2x weight in terms of speed of improvement. His Aerobic attributes still need 2x the CA to improve at the same rate as his Mental Attributes, but his Age means that his Physical Attributes are GETTING 2x the CA compared to Mental.

In this case you only need to increase Aerobic by 3x per attribute compared to Attacking because it has 3x the number of attributes, while the 2x CA needed is cancelled out by the 2x CA it is getting.

And if i have a 31 year old striker who has pace and acceleration of 14 and 14 then there is not much point trying to max it out any more and what i should do is to put his aerobic training on first notch or medium (maybe) and try and max out elsewhere? Thanks

Exactly.

The only thing I would add here is that the Stamina attribute determines how quickly a players condition drops, and if his condition gets too low he cannot play for long nor play regularly, and if he cannot play long and regularly his Match Experience drops.

If his Match Experience drops he gets less CA from matches. If he gets less CA from Matches his attributes drop. If his attributes drop and he is old then it is his Physical and Aerobic Attributes that drop quickest. If his Strength attributes drop he loses Stamina.

Pay Attention To Stamina.

[ron.e]

I am sorry if i seem stupid but i just don't understand what you mean by '3x CA to improve'. Also, is there any way of finding out official, what the impotant attributes are for positions in terms of a training and fm10?

You can see his workrate and determination. He has CA 127 PA 179, Professional rate of 14 and ambition of 13. I would like to max out his natural fitness, strenght and stamina by the time he's 21. In terms of a training schedule how can i do this without decreasing his defensive side? Thanks

I've decided to give tony mcmahon this training regime after much thought:-

Is this what you would do sfraser?

I've also got carlos tevez he's 31 now. and he has stamina of 18. And he's playing out of his skin for me.

and this is his training regime:-

Now, my thinking is, he has the physical attributes and they will not improve. His mental stats are superb as well because that comes with age and he has a very professional approach. The only problem i have is that his not as good a finisher as i would like so that's where i'm gonna focus his training. I understand that stamina is important but i also think professionalism is just as important because that mean that he will always try to maintain tip-top condition. I'm sorry that i'm going on a bit but i really want to understand so i can do my own training regimes. Is this right in your opinion? Thanks

[SFraser]

I am sorry if i seem stupid but i just don't understand what you mean by '3x CA to improve'. Also, is there any way of finding out official, what the impotant attributes are for positions in terms of a training and fm10?

What I mean by 3x CA to improve is that some Attributes like the Physical Attributes of Strength, Acceleration, Pace etc. require more CA for an increase than other Attributes, or conversely produce less of an Attribute Increase for the same amount of CA as other attributes.

If we imagine that your players Composure attribute takes 10 CA to go from 1 to 20, his Strength might require 30 CA to go from 1 to 20. If all his attributes go up by the same amount of CA as he develops then his Strength attribute numbers will go up 3 times slower than his Composure even though they get the same CA. His Composure will go up by 3 points by the time his Strength has gone up 1 point.

These are not accurate numbers, they are numbers I made up to make the point.

You can find a list of the relative weights for each attribute for each position in this thread. That list only shows you which attributes take most CA and in what order of increasing amount. The list does not show the exact amount of CA taken by each attribute.

You can see his workrate and determination. He has CA 127 PA 179, Professional rate of 14 and ambition of 13. I would like to max out his natural fitness, strenght and stamina by the time he's 21. In terms of a training schedule how can i do this without decressing his defensive side? Thanks

I don't think you understand quite how complex and numerous all the different factors underlying Training are. Nor do you understand that Physical Attributes require much more CA to increase than other Attributes.

It is not reasonable to imagine that you can "max out" his Strength attribute before you run out of CA because it has gone into his other attributes. Stamina of 16 and Strength of 10 are far more realistic targets but even those targets would require exceptionally close monitering of his CA gain and a very powerful Strength intensive schedule.

You cannot reasonably calculate what is required either due to the large numbers of variable factors that determine both CA gain and Natural CA redistribution. To calculate and design schedules to achieve precise targets would require precise knowledge of every factor every month and the ability to calculate precisely where each point of CA is going.

It may eventually be possible to construct a Spreadsheet or Utility that can perfectly calaculate these variables and determine precise schedules for precise increases, but that is nowhere near today.

EDIT:

Your recently updated screenshots do look quite good. Carlos Tevez seems on an excessively large Shooting training, however the Schedule for McMahon looks very good. Don't expect miracles but I would be expecting good results from that Schedule.

[ron.e]

Thanks for your reply. I still don't quite get what you mean by 3x but lets move on from that. Look, i'm never gonna get this 100% right but i just want to understand enough information so i can make different schedules for different players knowing that i am at least on the right track. Is it as simple as this:-

If you buy a striker and he lacks in pace and acceleration(because i believe this is a must for any striker) but has the all the right attributes in the technical areas then his strenght training needs to be higher than everything else regardless of his CA and PA?

And if you have a 17yrs old central midfielder with stamina of 5 and workrate of 7 then his strenght training has to be high than everything else if he is going to improve in that area, regardless of CA and PA? It is safe to think that isn't it? I can see why you think tevez shooting training is excessive. Way to high!!!! sorry for all the questions.