Lack of formations in Preferred Formations for Coaching Staff

This is also in my game.  I fear this may be by DESIGN rather than a bug as it is same in in game Tactics screen.  

I really hope this is a bug and more formations are added for player and ESPECIALLY AI managers as it really helps make AI managers feel more "real" and have greater variety.

I've long been wanting MORE formations (like old school Bielsa 3331).

 

REALLY hope this is a "bug" and they will be added PROMPTLY.  

Thank you for raising. This is a known issue we're currently investigating. 

Yep, I have been having the same issue, most formations disappeared, which is really a shame. Hope it can be fixed

Edited November 8, 2022 by abcdf

8 hours ago, Zachary Whyte said:

Thank you for raising. This is a known issue we're currently investigating. 

That's GOOD news.  I feared for some reason SI had decided to pare down the preset formations.  

Thanks for responding.  I hope SI does what it can to let people know.   

Glad you have raised this, same concern for me. No variety in game with all the different formations removed. Hope this is fixed asap.

Just updated both editor and game and the issue does not seem to be solved, which is really a shame as I thought it would be a quick fix. Can we expect it to be corrected in the near future?

I am start to think this is by design and not a bug. Less formations, mean easier ME tweaks as far I can understand.

SI confirmed it was an issue and it was under investigation, so I don't think it is by design. I mean, the whole point of this new game was AI being more tactically savvy, and they remove half the formations actually used by managers in real life. Does not make any sense. 

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by abcdf

1 hour ago, abcdf said:

SI confirmed it was an issue and it was under investigation, so I don't think it is by design. I mean, the whole point of this new game was AI being more tactically savvy, and they remove half the formations actually used by managers in real life. Does not make any sense. 

 

It's two versions now, so that's why I am start to think like this. We will see

1 ora fa, fc.cadoni ha scritto:

It's two versions now, so that's why I am start to think like this. We will see

I know, it seems weird to me too. Seems like a pretty simple bug to fix. Let's wait from someone from SI to answer this thread

Edited December 2, 2022 by abcdf

Very disapointed this wasn't addressed/fixed in 23.2.  I've been holding off on starting a game for this.  More tacticall, formation variety adds so much to the game and makes AI mangers feel more "real."   Also a big plus to be able to use Pre and In-Game Editors to change manager's formations when they dont reflect what they're using currently in real life, or when ya just want them to play a different way.  It's one of my favorite Editor features, not to mention to have in base game in first place.  

 

Very disapointed.  Hope this gets addressed as soon as possible.  

 

(Thanks for fixing the pre-game editor bug where just clicking on a kit registered as MULTIPLE changes.  Also, so far Pre-Game has been MUCH more stable than last 2-3 seasons. )

 

I really do not understand how can something like this happen "by accident" and not get fixed with a major update. Incredible.

Edited December 4, 2022 by abcdf

27 minutes ago, abcdf said:

I really do not understand how can something like this happen "by accident" and not get fixed with a major update. Really incredible.

At first I thought it was intnetional for some reason.  To "streamline tactics" or whatever.

 

No, I dont understand why this hasn't been fixed.  But I dont know how any of this stuff works. 

I do know its a BIG deal for me

 

@Zachary Whyteany news on this?

Hello, I can confirm that we're still looking into this. We're sorry for the inconvenience. 

3 ore fa, Zachary Whyte ha scritto:

Hello, I can confirm that we're still looking into this. We're sorry for the inconvenience. 

Hello, thank you for your response! Any idea if it could be corrected in the next updates?

I am having the same problem, just downloaded the game and the pre-game editor, and there are a handful of formations available, and the 'defending' and 'attacking' formations are identical to the preferred and second preferred ones, which was never the case before! How can a game be marketed on offering great tactical variety and AI managerial intelligence and then do the exact opposite in reality. The situation was better 10 years ago when you could select 3-4-3 as a starting formation for a new staff member in the pre-game editor for example, in recent FMs it hasn't been available except as an 'attacking' option, now it and about 30 other formations have been entirely excluded. 

A normal 4-2-3-1 isn't even available! There are literally 0 tactical options that don't include a defensive midfielder, except 4-4-2 - again, even on the attacking option. Only 2 formations do not involve playing 2 defensive midfielders. This is clearly a pretty massive thing that has been missed and needs fixing quickly. 

Has anyone checked whether all the other formations are there in the in-game editor when you try and change a manager's tactics through that channel, please? Thanks

Il 10/12/2022 in 14:28 , tom25194 ha scritto:

I am having the same problem, just downloaded the game and the pre-game editor, and there are a handful of formations available, and the 'defending' and 'attacking' formations are identical to the preferred and second preferred ones, which was never the case before! How can a game be marketed on offering great tactical variety and AI managerial intelligence and then do the exact opposite in reality. The situation was better 10 years ago when you could select 3-4-3 as a starting formation for a new staff member in the pre-game editor for example, in recent FMs it hasn't been available except as an 'attacking' option, now it and about 30 other formations have been entirely excluded. 

A normal 4-2-3-1 isn't even available! There are literally 0 tactical options that don't include a defensive midfielder, except 4-4-2 - again, even on the attacking option. Only 2 formations do not involve playing 2 defensive midfielders. This is clearly a pretty massive thing that has been missed and needs fixing quickly. 

Has anyone checked whether all the other formations are there in the in-game editor when you try and change a manager's tactics through that channel, please? Thanks

They are not in the in-game editor either

Anything more about this? Game is hard to play for me right now when no ai manager can play 4-2-3-1 and other formations.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Sedric

It's an issue we're still working on at this time. 

12 hours ago, Sedric said:

Anything more about this? Game is hard to play for me right now when no ai manager can play 4-2-3-1 and other formations.

For me it is going surprisingly easy   All my opponents play the same way  

Hello, after a discussion with the developers. The AI managers having less formations available for selection was a intentional decision.

But having less formations doesn't necessarily mean less tactical diversity though, as we've greatly improved the way AI managers choose their roles and team instructions.

We apologise for the confusion. In the link below, you can find a detailed comment talking about this decision, thank you.

https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/568484-official-football-manager-2023-early-access-beta-feedback-thread/page/26/#comment-13772691

 

18 ore fa, Zachary Whyte ha scritto:

Hello, after a discussion with the developers. The AI managers having less formations available for selection was a intentional decision.

But having less formations doesn't necessarily mean less tactical diversity though, as we've greatly improved the way AI managers choose their roles and team instructions.

We apologise for the confusion. In the link below, you can find a detailed comment talking about this decision, thank you.

https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/568484-official-football-manager-2023-early-access-beta-feedback-thread/page/26/#comment-13772691

 

I understand the reasoning behind it, with the whole DM CM thing that makes perfect sense. still I would appreciate to see more variety in formations, especially I don’t understand the reasoning behind attacking and defensive formations being the same as regular ones. I mean, when teams try to take the lead in the last portions of a game they often tend to try very offensive tactics and do not care about being balanced (like 2/3 attackers, offensive midfielders and no DM’s) and with things being this way I do not see that happening. Managers can only among the same set of formations they did at the start of the game.

the same with defensive ones. It is not rare to see managers throw in 6 defenders in an attempt to maintain the lead in important games.

i do not think the current system is able to reproduce this

Edited December 16, 2022 by abcdf

Same here. While the reasoning does make sense, could you guys perhaps make chekcbox options on the number of formations? Even simple things like "less formations" and "more formations" could do. Then there is also the point abcdf makes about offensive and defensive formations. It would really be nice if there could be some offense/defense specific formations.

1 hour ago, abcdf said:

I understand the reasoning behind it, with the whole DM CM thing that makes perfect sense. still I would appreciate to see more variety in formations, especially I don’t understand the reasoning behind attacking and defensive formations being the same as regular ones. I mean, when teams try to take the lead in the last portions of a game they often tend to try very offensive tactics and do not care about being balanced (like 2/3 attackers, offensive midfielders and no DM’s) and with things being this way I do not see that happening. Managers can only among the same set of formations they did at the start of the game.

the same with defensive ones. It is not rare to see managers throw in 6 defenders in an attempt to maintain the lead in important games.

i do not think the current system is able to reproduce this

To clarify - attacking formations in the data were never used for these situations specifically.

An attacking formation is the formation a manager uses as a starting formation against teams that are perceived to be weaker than them. Part of the reason for us changing the formation list, is to avoid this kind of confusion since we don't want managers using unbalanced formations from the start of a match.

Managers changing to extreme unbalanced shapes to chase/defend a match very late in the match is something we do want to do in the future though, although currently they do switch to very aggressive roles/duties when a match gets to that point.