Young players not developing (again)

Thanks for raising this - The QA team has run some tests and is happy with the current rate of progression.

To give some context, there are lots of factors that will improve progression such as Training schedules, match time, happiness, dynamics, and the level of opposition. If you are continuing to see other examples of this ideally across a longer period than 2 years, as in the grand scheme this is a small window, please feel free to provide more information via this thread and we can investigate.

Big issue I see with training is so many players are being retrained in numerous positions. Both other teams and when I leave it with my assistant manager. Almost every player one season in has random positions added. Why would Saliba be retrained as a right back? he’s one of the best in the world at being a CB. I have 100 examples of this just 1 season in. This hurts immersion. Imagine Partey retrained as a right winger.

On 08/11/2023 at 10:07, Dan Sheppard said:

Thanks for raising this - The QA team has run some tests and is happy with the current rate of progression.

To give some context, there are lots of factors that will improve progression such as Training schedules, match time, happiness, dynamics, and the level of opposition. If you are continuing to see other examples of this ideally across a longer period than 2 years, as in the grand scheme this is a small window, please feel free to provide more information via this thread and we can investigate.

I appreciate the response. I’ll keep playing my Brighton save as they have a lot of very high potential womderkids (and I’m signing more), so will check on their progress after a few seasons

I think there is an issue here - Coach report ratings for young players are not improving much, despite game time and the level being played at etc. 

I've been running a save as Aston Villa and applied the golden generation unlockable in season 1. I had 5 players that were all 2 star rated at the youth intake with 5 star potential (4 gold stars). I put them all into the first team at that point and have been playing all of them as the first choice in their positions ever since. Season 2 was a top 4 finish, and a UEL win, season 3 we won the league and the UCL. Now in season 4 and challenging for league, UCL, have made carabao cup final and still in FA Cup.

Of those 4 players, 1 is now 2 star rated, 1 is 2.5 star rated, 2 are 3 star rated and 1 is 4 star rated. All have been trained in their specific roles, with additional focuses based on areas where improvement might have been required. 

Over this period, development of mental and physical attributes seems fairly normal and comparable to as seen in previous versions.

The development of technical attributes is, in all cases showing either no overall improvement, or fairly major decline. Set pieces seem to be the worse - For one of the players (now 3 star rated), corners, free kick taking, long throws, and penalty taking have all gone down by 3 across "all time". Only 2 technical attributes have improved over the same period. Potential ability is now 4 star rated (3 gold stars)

On another (player now 2.5 star rated), Corners and free kick taking are down by 2, long throws by 1. Penalty taking hasn't changed, but shows a red arrow. Only 1 technical attribute has increased. Also now 4 star potential (3 gold stars)

On another (still 2 star rated), it shows a major overall drop in technical ability - Corners and free kick taking have gone down by 4 each! Penalty taking is down by 3. Long throws have remained the same (with a slight green arrow) 3 technical attributes have gone up by 1, but everything else technical has gone down, most of them by 2. There have also been drops in physical attributes as well which seems odd. Now only 3.5 star potential (2.5 gold star).

Finally, even on the player that is now 4 star rated, there have been reasonable increases in mental and physical attributes. There has been no change in the technical attributes, and only 2 show positive arrows.

This doesn't seem at all right - and I don't recall noticing anything like this in last year's version. 

It does seem to be more pronounced in players that weren't in the database at the start of the game, but looking at some other wonder kids I have in the squad (Barco, Ali-Cho, Baturina, Kamari, Hickey, Boselli) there is a similar trend.

In nearly all cases the most significant decreases seem to be in those technical set piece attributes.

Pretty big problem to be honest

 

7 hours ago, GJHowell said:

I think there is an issue here - Coach report ratings for young players are not improving much, despite game time and the level being played at etc. 

I've been running a save as Aston Villa and applied the golden generation unlockable in season 1. I had 5 players that were all 2 star rated at the youth intake with 5 star potential (4 gold stars). I put them all into the first team at that point and have been playing all of them as the first choice in their positions ever since. Season 2 was a top 4 finish, and a UEL win, season 3 we won the league and the UCL. Now in season 4 and challenging for league, UCL, have made carabao cup final and still in FA Cup.

Of those 4 players, 1 is now 2 star rated, 1 is 2.5 star rated, 2 are 3 star rated and 1 is 4 star rated. All have been trained in their specific roles, with additional focuses based on areas where improvement might have been required. 

Over this period, development of mental and physical attributes seems fairly normal and comparable to as seen in previous versions.

The development of technical attributes is, in all cases showing either no overall improvement, or fairly major decline. Set pieces seem to be the worse - For one of the players (now 3 star rated), corners, free kick taking, long throws, and penalty taking have all gone down by 3 across "all time". Only 2 technical attributes have improved over the same period. Potential ability is now 4 star rated (3 gold stars)

On another (player now 2.5 star rated), Corners and free kick taking are down by 2, long throws by 1. Penalty taking hasn't changed, but shows a red arrow. Only 1 technical attribute has increased. Also now 4 star potential (3 gold stars)

On another (still 2 star rated), it shows a major overall drop in technical ability - Corners and free kick taking have gone down by 4 each! Penalty taking is down by 3. Long throws have remained the same (with a slight green arrow) 3 technical attributes have gone up by 1, but everything else technical has gone down, most of them by 2. There have also been drops in physical attributes as well which seems odd. Now only 3.5 star potential (2.5 gold star).

Finally, even on the player that is now 4 star rated, there have been reasonable increases in mental and physical attributes. There has been no change in the technical attributes, and only 2 show positive arrows.

This doesn't seem at all right - and I don't recall noticing anything like this in last year's version. 

It does seem to be more pronounced in players that weren't in the database at the start of the game, but looking at some other wonder kids I have in the squad (Barco, Ali-Cho, Baturina, Kamari, Hickey, Boselli) there is a similar trend.

In nearly all cases the most significant decreases seem to be in those technical set piece attributes.

Pretty big problem to be honest

 

Just to follow up on this - I've run another quick save with RB Leipzig. Same thing again - the players coming through the youth intake start deteriorating on technical attributes pretty much from day 1. Same thing seems to be happening with physical attributes as well, although to not as great an extent.

A large number of players in their mid to late 20's are showing mainly negative arrows on technical and  some physical attributes (across "all time"), and some showing reduction in some of these attributes - not sure that should be happening to players in the 25-28 age range. These are all players in their prime and playing at a high level. These are not players that have been performing badly, most have had average ratings across the season of between 6.80 and 7.00. One of them is 25, has scored 29 goals, has 8 assists, 9 potm awards and a 7.18 average rating across the season - technical attributes, with the exception of 3 are either neutral or on an downward trajectory, Physical attributes are mainly neural or on a slight positive trajectory,  and physical attributes other than 3 are neutral or heading downwards. No attributes have actually changed in 2 seasons.

There is definitely an issue with the set piece attributes - these ones deteriorate most of all. In a squad of 26 (with 3 goalkeepers), only 4 players have over 12 for corners, only 7 over 10 for free kicks, and only 4 over 9 for penalties. In the Aston Villa save referred to in the earlier post, only 3 from 25 have a rating above 10 for corners, and only 5 over 10 for penalties.This doesn't seem right at all. 

Players are developing elsewhere in the game, so would seem to be an issue with the new training system. That might also explain why the star ratings of established players signed only ever seem to go down rather than up.

Can this be looked into urgently - it basically renders the game unplayable.

Well, after doing some sim saves i notice the same thing. Technical attributes are pretty much disregarded but mentals and physicals go up like crazy eating up all the Current Ability (from Potential Ability).

 

This is similar to what happened last year.

@Dan Sheppard Can you give us any answer about this? Set pieces attributes decline a lot in addition to bad technicals improvement 

As mentioned above, the QA team are happy with the current rate of progression.

Our internal data/playthroughs all look good to us.

A note for @GJHowellcomment, is not to focus too heavily on the star ratings, which is a comparison across players in the club.

For example if you are Aston Villa and you have Ollie Watkins who is 4 stars when you are finishing in the Europa League that makes sense. But if you are then challenging for the title, Champions League and cup competitions, Watkins is no longer as important, so the stars will adjust accordingly.

On 27/11/2023 at 16:51, Zachary Whyte said:

As mentioned above, the QA team are happy with the current rate of progression.

Our internal data/playthroughs all look good to us.

A note for @GJHowellcomment, is not to focus too heavily on the star ratings, which is a comparison across players in the club.

For example if you are Aston Villa and you have Ollie Watkins who is 4 stars when you are finishing in the Europa League that makes sense. But if you are then challenging for the title, Champions League and cup competitions, Watkins is no longer as important, so the stars will adjust accordingly.

And what about the regression on set pieces attributes?

11 hours ago, João14 said:

And what about the regression on set pieces attributes?

 

On 27/11/2023 at 16:51, Zachary Whyte said:

As mentioned above, the QA team are happy with the current rate of progression.

Our internal data/playthroughs all look good to us.

A note for @GJHowellcomment, is not to focus too heavily on the star ratings, which is a comparison across players in the club.

For example if you are Aston Villa and you have Ollie Watkins who is 4 stars when you are finishing in the Europa League that makes sense. But if you are then challenging for the title, Champions League and cup competitions, Watkins is no longer as important, so the stars will adjust accordingly.

This really doesn't make sense - as pointed out there is definitely a problem with set piece attributes.

In my current Spurs squad (season 3) I have a squad of 25 players. 2 have just joined, and 1 joined at the start of the season so not really long enough to judge.

only 2 out of  the remaining 22 players have the green "slight overall improvement in technical ability"

9 show "no significant change in overall technical ability

The rest all have the red "slight overall drop in technical ability"message.

Challenging at top of premier league and competing in Champions League, as well as regularly reaching latter stages of domestic competitions. Squad is being rotated - 16 have average rating for the season of 7 and above, only 2 have rating average rating below 6.9

I have 2 players over 30. Most of the players showing decline in technical abilities are below 30.

I have "superb" training facilities and "state of the art" youth facilities, and a 4 star rated asst manager. 

If you look at the corner, free kick and penalty taking attributes, and ignore the goalkeepers, I have one player who has a slight upward green arrow in corner taking, and another who has the same in free kick taking. At best, the remaining 20 show no change on any of those attributes, but the large majority of them have red downward pointing arrows of varying degrees, and many that have significant reduction in one or more of those attributes. Is this going to be addressed - this has been raised by a number of us now.

I've been playing FM for years, there is no way this is right or can "look good"

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by GJHowell

It's not possible that development is something the QA team is happy. It really can't be possible, development is terrible handled by AI managers.

Stats on a 3 year simulation without regens.

July 2023

At least 17

Dribbling - 93
Finishing - 39
First Touch - 104
Free Kicks - 80
Passing - 91
Technique - 172

July 2026 (excluding regens)

Dribbling - 53 (less 40 players)
Finishing - 24 (less 15 players + all of them were already at 17 finishing on July 2023)
First Touch - 72 (less 32 players)
Free Kicks - 27 (less 53 players !!!!!! + none under 27 years)
Passing - 53 (less 38 players + all of them were already at 17 passing on July 2023)
Technique - 103 (less 69 players !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Comparison with a DB of 60k players on full FM on July 2026:

Dribbling - 69 (less 24 players)
Finishing - 34 (less 5 players)
First Touch - 85 (less 19 players)
Free Kicks - 41 (less 39 players !!!!!! + none under 27 years)
Passing - 74 (less 17 players)
Technique - 135 (less 37 players)



What in the mother of earth is this?

Do you really think this is ok? Players don't develop any relevant technicals outside the defending ones? This is borderline outrageous and needs a quick and hot fix.

What type of saves do you need? Is it needed?

This needs URGENT fixing.

Edited December 3, 2023 by João14

@Zachary Whyteand @Dan Sheppardis this by design really?

And again……

Playing as Bradford. 
Have a young striker out on loan at Swindon, playing well and scoring goals. Green upward arrows all across his stats. 
 

recall him - continues to play well and score goals yet within 3 weeks of recall his technicals and some physical attributes are heading downwards with a lot of red arrows. 
 

same level of training facilities and similar level ass manager. 
 

This cannot be right???
 

Is this issue being addressed?? (Not seen it mentioned in the change list for the latest update). 

On 06/12/2023 at 09:36, João14 said:

@Zachary Whyteand @Dan Sheppardis this by design really?

I've flagged to those who know development in more detail. Will come back once I can confirm.

On 08/12/2023 at 15:47, Dan Sheppard said:

I've flagged to those who know development in more detail. Will come back once I can confirm.

Any update on this? is the issue, particularly in regards to development of technical attributes going to be fixed?