AI squad building is still terrible, seems exactly the same as FM 23

By the way, to prove that I am not whining pointlessly, this is a screenshot from BVB 2nd team after FM23 last update. Just compare it to the situation in my post above. It's incredible, you guys just seem to take 1 step forward and 5 steps back

 

 

13 minutos atrás, abcdf disse:

There is little to no change, the bug is still there. Rotation is still terrible. AI teams still never use all 5 substitutions during games. They use 2-3 on average and just do nosensical stuff like subbing in and off central defenders when they are losing the game. I am just tired

AI does that because it keeps calling only center backs an left/right backs to the banch, its an average of 5 defenders out of 9 subs per game.

Im tired too, I  went to general discussion forum and posted a ridiculous thing that happened in the first season game on a new save I created post patch and I was accused of moaning by other users. 

The current state of the AI its unbelieveble, Im done trying to help with opening bugs, the last post I did was that one in the general discussion, and yes maybe I was a litle bit stressed, but its hard to see things like that keep happening patch after patch so I will never again open a bug for this FM edition.

Im really consediring if I should buy the 25 since all I see is useless new features keep being addded instead of SI try so solve the issues that are present for so many years. 

I simmed three seasons. Zaire-Emery is still in PSG2 and is listed on Loan because PSG can't fulfil his desires to play in the first team. No joke - even the player is crying out for actual game time and the AI manager is refusing to give it, only reluctantly placing him on loan because he brought it up himself. He's had three league starts and 6 sub appearances in three years, and hasn't been anywhere else.

The Saudi transfers really need a lot more consideration. They're pretty excessive for one thing. 33 year old Heung-Min Son moved to Al-Hilal for £146m. High wages are whatever, but Saudi teams aren't overspending on transfers - Neymar was £90m and considering reputation, what PSG had paid for him etc., that wasn't an unrealistic price (considering Declan Rice cost more on transfer fee alone too). Speaking of Neymar, he's at PSV on £77k per week after his release. The players are just leaving on free transfers at the end of their contracts and even circulating to other Saudi teams as a result. Jota is 27 playing for Abha after moving on a free transfer for a pretty significant wage cut, going from £195k per week to £9.25k per week(!!!). PSG brought in four Saudi released players in one season - great steal, I'd have done the same - but the issue is that Saudi teams are just mass releasing players.

AI managers still think wingers are great centre forwards, or at least they're happy with them being passable in that role and won't go beyond that, even if they're an elite level club. I don't think that'll ever be fixed. I would like it so the AI managers would be able to at least see 'this guy is 19/20 centre forward and 20/20 right wing, so he's a right winger and I should get a 20/20 centre forward for regular playing time and use this guy as a tactical backup or supporting striker if I want two up front changing formations mid-game'. You know who's currently AC Milan's centre forward? Charles De Ketelaere.

The only positive difference I've seen are that teams aren't hoarding goalkeepers and giving them the same squad statuses.

I've attached a bunch of screenshots for the sake of it. I'm done with this and I'm not uploading any saved games to help - the developers are capable of simming their own seasons. I'm convinced this is something that can't be fixed with this iteration of the game no matter what promises of 'features' are made. The features were marketed before they were even solidified (blah blah, J-League, etc.). I was already hesitant on looking at FM25 because I was here for CM4 and *that* game engine switch, but if this isn't fixed by the January update or whatever, I'm done with the series (I went from FM06 to 23 - it's really no problem for me).

Edited December 2, 2023 by tezcatlipoca665

If SI is looking for engineers to hire and fix this issue, let me know. But I don't think they invest a lot of engineering effort into making the game enjoyable for players that play long-term saves. It's a good game for 1 season or 2 season max. After that, the game falls apart.

I do not know, but the fact that the team is answering to every single bug post aside from this one is concerning. The update did not solve a thing, yet they seem unwilling to acknowledge it. I need once again to outline, that we are taking time out of our free time to post here evidence of the bugs. And we do not even get an answer. 

Hello everyone. I'll go into more detail of the changes in our recent major update with regards to 'Improve AI Team Selection Logic' mentioned on the change list.
 
1. Adjustments to Match Priority.
 
The part of the game which chooses the starting XI and subs for a match is called the Team Selector.
 
Each match is given a match priority which will impact the team selection/rotation. There are 4 different match priorities used in the Team Selector which will have varying impacts on the amount of rotation an AI side will do for each match.
 
Before the update, the Team Selector over used the match priority which would see the AI play there strongest available team, this resulted in rotation not occurring when there would have been opportunities to do so. There have been a number of changes made to this regarding how the AI prioritises matches, particularly around fixture congestion, early rounds of cup competitions and dead rubbers at the end of the season.

2. AI players not being Rested

Prior to the update there was an issue in game where the Team Selector would not always consider resting players who had the 'Rst' status flag. This meant that the AI would not rotate players out of the starting XI who were in need of a rest, which resulted in a lack of rotation when there should have been an opportunity to have done so.

There was a change added which will see the Team Selector now take into account players in need of a rest when making their team selection, which will encourage more rotation. There will still be instances of players with the 'Rst' status flag being picked though, especially in important matches towards end of the season.

I'm honestly not trying to be difficult, I'd just like some confirmation so I can know now before deciding how I'm going to play the game from now on: As far as the development team is concerned, is AI Squad Building fixed and now a working feature as promoted?

2 horas atrás, tezcatlipoca665 disse:

I'm honestly not trying to be difficult, I'd just like some confirmation so I can know now before deciding how I'm going to play the game from now on: As far as the development team is concerned, is AI Squad Building fixed and now a working feature as promoted?

IMO, no. But the update did make it a little better.

On 07/12/2023 at 07:38, tezcatlipoca665 said:

I'm honestly not trying to be difficult, I'd just like some confirmation so I can know now before deciding how I'm going to play the game from now on: As far as the development team is concerned, is AI Squad Building fixed and now a working feature as promoted?

Squad building and the match engine were the main reason i bought 24-This two things are not a working feature as promoted but the davincid update is out today sometime

 

#FM24 "Increase Realism"-Megapack #DECEMBER #EarlyAccess is released on #Patreon updated for 24.2 improved squad rotation & AI squad building realistic injuries finances fix german clubs realistic youth ratings & much more!

 

Ill certainly be using this until a patch comes out.Should not need to use this as this was promised pre-launch but its the best for now

Hope this helps

9 minutes ago, dannyo666 said:

Squad building and the match engine were the main reason i bought 24-This two things are not a working feature as promoted but the davincid update is out today sometime

 

#FM24 "Increase Realism"-Megapack #DECEMBER #EarlyAccess is released on #Patreon updated for 24.2 improved squad rotation & AI squad building realistic injuries finances fix german clubs realistic youth ratings & much more!

 

Ill certainly be using this until a patch comes out.Should not need to use this as this was promised pre-launch but its the best for now

Hope this helps

His Increase Realism packs are great. I'm using a version of his FM23 pack continued into an FM24 save now (though I think I've noticed some wild effects this has had mixed with the update to FM24, but I'll see what happens the further I go on).

It won't fix the Squad Building issues and general AI logic, since it doesn't affect the game code, but it'll definitely improve the overall experience in general. I'm gonna hold off for a bit until he starts adding more leagues now that he's taken over Dave The Editor's 'Around The Globe' project. That way I can just concentrate on a save focused on a bunch of non-European leagues I'm not familiar with, so I can get a kind-of long-term save out of this game out of the ignorance of not knowing how the other teams are supposed to do things.

That is, if SI aren't planning on further patches to fix the overall AI manager logic.

So is this improved Squad Building feature considered 100% fixed and fully working, as advertised? Or are there still more updates to come?

Hi @tezcatlipoca665 we're happy with how Squad Building is currently working, unlikely we'll be making any further changes to it for FM24.

3 ore fa, Zachary Whyte ha scritto:

Hi @tezcatlipoca665 we're happy with how Squad Building is currently working, unlikely we'll be making any further changes to it for FM24.

I am just flabbergasted by this answer. Squad building is still buggy and honestly very bad. The “improved” squad building could by no means be advertised as an headline feature. Last time I am buying this game, I’m tired. Not only you do not deliver, you also do not apologize when it happens. 
 

I am afraid this brand is reaching its end

Edited December 21, 2023 by abcdf

20 hours ago, Zachary Whyte said:

Hi @tezcatlipoca665 we're happy with how Squad Building is currently working, unlikely we'll be making any further changes to it for FM24.

I do have to ask - what about squad building has changed since 23 that it was a headlining feature? Because if anything it seems worse than last year!
Especially with the under development of players in the youth squads. The youth managers do not rotate at all and some players literally have 0 appearances all season… just a bit surprised it is now almost 2 months since release and this issue is still not resolved….

21 horas atrás, Zachary Whyte disse:

Hi @tezcatlipoca665 we're happy with how Squad Building is currently working, unlikely we'll be making any further changes to it for FM24.

Thats... bizarre. Comparing what we have with what was advertised is absurd

2 hours ago, xOGxTerror said:

The youth managers do not rotate at all and some players literally have 0 appearances all season.

This is something I have raised internally but we would need save games with examples to examine. In the saves we've been sent so far we were unable to reproduce the issue.

4 hours ago, Zachary Whyte said:

This is something I have raised internally but we would need save games with examples to examine. In the saves we've been sent so far we were unable to reproduce the issue.

I will see what I can provide. Thank you for taking the time to reply!! 

On 21/12/2023 at 16:40, Zachary Whyte said:

Hi @tezcatlipoca665 we're happy with how Squad Building is currently working, unlikely we'll be making any further changes to it for FM24.

I honestly was looking forward to a patch addressing this issue....Thought it would be a priority number 1...wow-Speechless

On 22/12/2023 at 13:42, xOGxTerror said:

I do have to ask - what about squad building has changed since 23 that it was a headlining feature? Because if anything it seems worse than last year!
Especially with the under development of players in the youth squads. The youth managers do not rotate at all and some players literally have 0 appearances all season… just a bit surprised it is now almost 2 months since release and this issue is still not resolved….

There's no real way to prove whether it's better than FM23 or not. I'm pretty sure that they can claim it is and promote it as a 'feature' without actual evidence because there's no real way to measure it. For example, when it was promised that teams would look to loan out promising players to specific kinds of teams, you can just push that away with 'well there are other variables involved, and not every save will be the same, transfers and decision making are never perfect' etc. all while players like Zaire-Emery rot in their B-teams until they demand transfers in far too many saves.

The match engine is one thing. There's visible evidence of changes shown - ball trajectory, bounce, player movement were all heavily promoted with video proof. This is the last time I take any promises at face value for these games unless there are videos showing hard evidence of them (or at least would be, if I had any interest in FM25, since I don't care what the match engine looks like). I understand that's probably difficult to do with something like squad building, but 1) that's not my problem, and 2) if you can't prove a feature exists and works, then don't make the specific claim and promote it in the first place. 'General AI improvements' may not be a great selling point to make a bullet point out of, but it's a lot more honest as a catch-all than 'improved AI squad building with focus on youth rotation and loan considerations'.

On 23/12/2023 at 07:11, dannyo666 said:

I honestly was looking forward to a patch addressing this issue....Thought it would be a priority number 1...wow-Speechless

Realism mod pretty much fixes it. Dunno how it is in Vanilla but when combined with the realism mod, really don't know how they'd get it to be much better.

2 hours ago, CrowManager said:

Realism mod pretty much fixes it. Dunno how it is in Vanilla but when combined with the realism mod, really don't know how they'd get it to be much better.

Davincid's realism mod is great, but it's been noted before that it doesn't affect the AI directly. It adjusts everything that can be edited in the FM24 editor like player reputation, injury rates, and stamina/fatigue tweaks to force squad rotation. While that can help push younger players into being played in first team games just out of the AI manager's desperation to have a fit squad before a match, it won't do anything to fix the features SI promised in order to sell the game - specifically more considered transfers, and actual planned youth player development with loans.

Edited December 27, 2023 by tezcatlipoca665

23 minutes ago, tezcatlipoca665 said:

Davincid's realism mod is great, but it's been noted before that it doesn't affect the AI directly. It adjusts everything that can be edited in the FM24 editor like player reputation, injury rates, and stamina/fatigue tweaks to force squad rotation. While that can help push younger players into being played in first team games just out of the AI manager's desperation to have a fit squad before a match, it won't do anything to fix the features SI promised in order to sell the game - specifically more considered transfers, and actual planned youth player development with loans.

Fwiw my opinion on that is that then there clearly is a bit done for the Vanilla as well then, because while the awards, fatigue, injury rate, player reputation etc will be changed, a 16 year old will not be getting the awards right away, injury rate is most notable in December, and I'm speaking in my season from early September when I initially was looking and seeing it to October, before most congestion. 

Dunno how newgen reputation works but yeah these u18s are newgens too. Not the Gavi etc guys. 

I imagine that he could flat out tell you it if he wanted, but I'm just here to say that with it it clearly is making a significant and noticeable impact.

On the other stuff yeah I can't say much. I see some loans but that also seems to be tied to what leagues are open. Transfers honestly haven't looked too much so dunno. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by CrowManager

The bar is very low

On 21/12/2023 at 18:40, Zachary Whyte said:

Hi @tezcatlipoca665 we're happy with how Squad Building is currently working, unlikely we'll be making any further changes to it for FM24.

 

15 hours ago, tezcatlipoca665 said:

Davincid's realism mod is great, but it's been noted before that it doesn't affect the AI directly. It adjusts everything that can be edited in the FM24 editor like player reputation, injury rates, and stamina/fatigue tweaks to force squad rotation. While that can help push younger players into being played in first team games just out of the AI manager's desperation to have a fit squad before a match, it won't do anything to fix the features SI promised in order to sell the game - specifically more considered transfers, and actual planned youth player development with loans.

Yeah a mod shouldnt even be needed tbh....but thats just where we are now..It already been said that unlikely no patch to improve squad building is ever going to come....Davincid's realism mod is just trying to fix whats broken in 24....as for a fix the features SI promised in order to sell the game?Only SI can do this....well im back playing 23 and 22 with mod and theres plenty of people doing so...not expecting any massive improvements to come....i really dont know anymore with this game after all these years...bugs i can deal with-Promised headline features that dont work correctly?cmon now...

6 hours ago, dannyo666 said:

Yeah a mod shouldnt even be needed tbh....but thats just where we are now..It already been said that unlikely no patch to improve squad building is ever going to come....Davincid's realism mod is just trying to fix whats broken in 24....as for a fix the features SI promised in order to sell the game?Only SI can do this....well im back playing 23 and 22 with mod and theres plenty of people doing so...not expecting any massive improvements to come....i really dont know anymore with this game after all these years...bugs i can deal with-Promised headline features that dont work correctly?cmon now...

To each their own, but: