AI squad building is still terrible, seems exactly the same as FM 23

Terrible squad building from ai...why u release like this each year..my immersion each year is over within 24 houe of playing

Fix it or dont fix it i dont care anymore im gonna play other game..maybe in 6 month it works as advertised and il check it out when the irl season is already over

 

I posted about a issue with u20 u18 manager not using players i tell them to almost 2 weeks ago... i wait patiently for releaae...still not fixed

Edited November 6, 2023 by mrmiituu

9 minuti fa, mrmiituu ha scritto:

Just shocking how they release these games..

 

I blindly pay each year but il crack it from now on..this game deserves no money.

Youth coaches dont even know wich players to play...(highest pa..its tjat hard?)

Bro I have never heard an apology for not delivering on this forum. And I have been posting outrageously evident bugs for years. And I can bet my a*s we are not going to see another reply from the devs on this post until FM 25

Edited November 6, 2023 by abcdf

We don't post a change list on the release date of the game. It's the release version of the game and so ongoing changes have been made as part of the development process. 

While we fully understand people can be unhappy when a situation persists, we do look to fix it. There have been a lot of changes in this area for FM24, and so there are a lot of aspects to consider and monitor for potential further changes in future updates. 

Michael, honestly. I have been hearing this stuff on and on from November 2022. The exact same issues are still there. And we’re left with the same indefinite answer “it will maybe be fixed at some point (nobody knows when) in the future”. 
this is not acceptable anymore. I think your customers deserve a somehow exact timeline on when will these issues will be fixed. We paid upfront for your product based on what was presented as a “headline feature”. Now you’re telling me like it’s nothing that you have no clue when will the fact that this headline feature does not exist in the actual game be fixed. If you cannot/don’t care that much about fixing this side of the game, just say it.

cmon man. Cmon

Edited November 6, 2023 by abcdf

40 minutos atrás, Michael Sant disse:

We don't post a change list on the release date of the game. It's the release version of the game and so ongoing changes have been made as part of the development process. 

While we fully understand people can be unhappy when a situation persists, we do look to fix it. There have been a lot of changes in this area for FM24, and so there are a lot of aspects to consider and monitor for potential further changes in future updates. 

Im sorry Michael but this isnt about being unhappy when a situation persits. Its about being unhappy about an headline feature that was highligted before the beta release by you guys and its not present in the game. Take a look at my last comment made today on this thread and tell me if the AI did anything even a litle bit realistic.... Did you read t and saw those images? Good. (Im being naive, you are not going to but ill try to continue this)

Now take a look at what you guys published before the beta release:

Is that kind of AI inteligence and better decisions that you guys were talking about???? To have 5 center backs in the banch and not even a single winger?? not surprising that AI just did 2 subs at the minute 91, it didnt have much options in the banch to make something diferent and try to change some things in the field and try new aprouches to win that game... If that team was loosing what could they do? well maybe sub a winger by one of the 5 center backs...... Also how can an attacking player evolve if he isnt even called for a match? This realy explains some parts of the problem with AI players development.

Im really disapointed guys, its like you said something would be better and somehow it isnt and you cant even say something like "we are sorry, this shouldnt be like it is, we will fix this as soon as we can because this feature is important and thats why we higlited this feature before, it was no just becuse we want to fool you and make you intersted to buy the game". You are just basically saying "Oh are you not happy?? Too bad, if we bother one day we will fix this for you".

Edited November 6, 2023 by FASP

Zachary made a very detailed post on what changes have taken place on this front to underlying systems, while also highlighting some areas we're looking into moving forward. Of course we understand that people are looking to play FM for some enjoyment and relaxation among a player-base typically of adults who will have more limited time and want to just have it work. 

It's currently not hitting the mark, and we are looking to sort that moving forward. Putting a specific time line on it isn't something we'd look to do because we could not categorically guarantee that. If it's a case of knowing exactly how to solve it and getting it working as everyone wants, then that would be done. I'm not, and collectively at SI, we're not looking to insult anyone's intelligence or downplay the issue. There is going to be a lot of testing required for changes in this area to try and ensure they hit the correct mark moving forward. 

I'm just very curious at what stage in the development of FM24 SI decided to highlight AI squad building and player development as a headline feature, while they must have realized somewhere down the road that it is completely not working as intended. Surely the early access was not the first time this was documented right?

11 minutos atrás, Michael Sant disse:

Zachary made a very detailed post on what changes have taken place on this front to underlying systems, while also highlighting some areas we're looking into moving forward. Of course we understand that people are looking to play FM for some enjoyment and relaxation among a player-base typically of adults who will have more limited time and want to just have it work. 

It's currently not hitting the mark, and we are looking to sort that moving forward. Putting a specific time line on it isn't something we'd look to do because we could not categorically guarantee that. If it's a case of knowing exactly how to solve it and getting it working as everyone wants, then that would be done. I'm not, and collectively at SI, we're not looking to insult anyone's intelligence or downplay the issue. There is going to be a lot of testing required for changes in this area to try and ensure they hit the correct mark moving forward. 

I didnt ask a timeline, I know what it is when we are talking about fix something that i bet its not easy to. I requested a different answer, more like "We know this is wrong and its something we will try to fix", more or less what you did now.

I understand what you said about the player base, but i must say that I have limited time too. Im a software developer of 31yo, I know what it is to code and how hard it can be to fix something thats hidden behinf so many lines of code, I play this game since I was 7 and the game was called Championship Manager. Do you think I cared more about realism when I was younger? I bet anyone who is pointing this issues related with player development and realism are the old players, not the young kids or the content creators that try to exploit any kind of bug to take advantage of it.

As you can see, this is my favorite game, the limited time doesnt stop me for playing FM, I play this almost every day and that doesnt mean im someone that dont have a life, This is my favorite game for years and it really makes me sad to see that we are trying to help you,, in a tool that you give us to point possible issues in a pre release game, and the answers we get are not on a direction that i think it shoul be, sometimes almost offend us, even if it wasnt on purpose. We are trying to help you, thats just what we want, and speaking by myself, all i do in this forum is just to help you on deliever something flawless, to deliver the best football game that exists in the market.

It's been 2.5 weeks since this was reported. The game is now in full release (with seemingly 0 bug fixes but we don't know cause you don't want to tell us). Providing some sort of timeline to your paying customers seems quite a reasonable thing to ask for a game released annually at full price with basic features that used to work but are now somehow broken. Example - why is the team talk still resetting once the game starts after it was reported weeks ago?

Edited November 6, 2023 by StephenG

Squad building has indeed improved as far as I can see (specially in the building of U21 and U18 squads, which is FAR more balanced and realistic now, with every major team actually having enough players there), but it's not nearly perfect yet. For me the deepest concern is teams sending so few players on loan. The numbers are ridiculously low. Also, teams tend to have overbloated squads, specially at sub-top level. As far as I can see, they don't get rid of enough free agents at the end of the season, instead keeping players that they will never use. This affects player development because it makes the young prospects less desirable.

Edited November 6, 2023 by tonidopa

17 minutes ago, tonidopa said:

Squad building has indeed improved as far as I can see (specially in the building of U21 and U18 squads, which is FAR more balanced and realistic now, with every major team actually having enough players there), but it's not nearly perfect yet. For me the deepest concern is teams sending so few players on loan. The numbers are ridiculously low. Also, teams tend to have overbloated squads, specially at sub-top level. As far as I can see, they don't get rid of enough free agents at the end of the season, instead keeping players that they will never use. This affects player development because it makes the young prospects less desirable.

if it is so great, can u explain to me why  17 players from a squad of 30 are with red match sharpness?

this is the u21 schedule 

 

 

with this i should expect only 13 players correctly developed with actual gametime from a squad of 30 ? is this working fine?

Edited November 6, 2023 by kertiek

hace 8 minutos, kertiek dijo:

if it is so great, can u explain to me why  17 players from a squad of 30 are with red match sharpness?

this is the u21 schedule 

 

 

with this i should expect only 13 players correctly developed with actual gametime from a squad of 30 ? is this working fine?

That's not necessarily poor squad building but unrealistic squad management. That's a known problem along with AI manager substitutions and yeah, I agree it ruins the game in its current form. Just another case of SI actually going backwards from last year's version.

It's funny the headline feature isn't implemented in the game. Poor AI squad management, poor transfers, aging squad. Other people like dave is fixing this for free and FM can't fix this for 2 years.

Looking at the amount of views and disappointed comments on this thread I really hope that SI are going to prioritize this issue over anything else and release a timely update to at least improve these issues. But maybe I am just delusional

SI making many false advertisement to their game. Headliner such as AI building and Japanese league fully loaded are full of false claim.

I've just started playing the full game after holding off from playing the beta. Just finished pre season and not one AI team made a substitution. This despite very tired players in the first eleven. What's worse pre season is the time managers make many changes. I'm afraid this is a game breaking bug. There's no incentive for me to continue playing. 

I cannot understand how you can release a game in this state. Also why was this area a headline feature? Think you should refund everyone who wants one and release the game when it's actually ready.

hace 2 horas, SPE3D dijo:

I've just started playing the full game after holding off from playing the beta. Just finished pre season and not one AI team made a substitution. This despite very tired players in the first eleven. What's worse pre season is the time managers make many changes. I'm afraid this is a game breaking bug. There's no incentive for me to continue playing. 

I cannot understand how you can release a game in this state. Also why was this area a headline feature? Think you should refund everyone who wants one and release the game when it's actually ready.

Yes, this is a game-breaking bug. Also the tendency of the AI to substitute the substitutes borders on ridiculous and kills all the immersion.

 

Moreover, I've noticed that the game has gone from never giving a chance to youth players to throwing away cup competitions puting five or six random younsters in there while descarding first-team members that actually need game time. Is it so hard for the AI to pick one or two top talents and give them some minutes without throwing away competitions? It's the same in the Community Shield, by the way.

6 ore fa, SPE3D ha scritto:

I've just started playing the full game after holding off from playing the beta. Just finished pre season and not one AI team made a substitution. This despite very tired players in the first eleven. What's worse pre season is the time managers make many changes. I'm afraid this is a game breaking bug. There's no incentive for me to continue playing. 

I cannot understand how you can release a game in this state. Also why was this area a headline feature? Think you should refund everyone who wants one and release the game when it's actually ready.

Honestly the situation is just embarassing. And I mean embarassing for them, to release a game with such evident game-breaking bugs. The substitutions one is just ridiculous, how can a brand as big as FM release a game in this state? This is indie game level stuff, come on. And on top of anything else, how can your marketing team think it’s a good idea to promote this side of the game a HIGHLIGHT for this edition? I just cannot understand the reasoning behind it.

I don't think the QE even realize these player development/ai squad management bugs since it existed since FM 22. Everyone needs to play couple of matches to find these issues or simply go to holiday. Either that or they purposefully build this game this way to give new/casual players a chance to be good at this game by making AI managers very bad. I don't know which one yet and I don't think SI will confirm it.

Edited November 9, 2023 by TheAwesomeGem

Has the AI not rotating their squad bug been addressed in the update? I cannot see specific references to it

Hi, we had 'Improve AI team selection logic' in the change list.

Has anyone even notice that team are even rotating their players? I did a simulation 2 days before the patch and looking at the the data there seem to be no change.
First screenshot is from before 24.1 and 2nd screenshot is from 24.2.  I didn't look much into like injuries or other factors, but to me it look the same.  Looking at Guler even before the patch he got 2 games in and after patch 2 subs :/.
If SI want I can even upload my save but what is the point.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Fwiedwice

I do not know what do you mean by improved AI team selection logic, after the update the situation is still terrible, way worse then in was after the last update of FM23 that kinda improved the situation.

I lost all hope and I am tired of posting on this forum.

Borussia dortmund second team making their entire team unavailable for loan, when at least this issue was fixed in FM 23 last update and they did offer almost every single player for loan.

Explain to me what a Bundesliga level player like Duranville is doing playing in the 3rd tier of German football, what development is he going to get? zero. 

Same thing for Real Madrid B, 3rd tier of spanish football. Entire team unavailble for loan. Rafa Marin played a whole season as a key player for Alaves in La Liga. Now he is left to rot in the 2nd team, not made available for sale and UNAVAILABLE for loan. 

I am just getting tired. The problem is not fixed a bit. You once again delivered false hope to your users. As of now, the AI is worse than it was in FM23, and back then it was terrible. 

I do not even know what to say at this point. I have been posting about this bug FOR 2 YEARS, 2 YEARS for god's sake. Now you just took it back to FM23 pre-last update level. Why? Just explain to me the logic because I just cannot understand. It does not seem so difficult to fix that 2nd team should aim at loaning their players when they are too good to play in lower leagues. Please provide an explanation to me, because I cannot understand

Edited December 2, 2023 by abcdf

7 ore fa, Fwiedwice ha scritto:

Has anyone even notice that team are even rotating their players? I did a simulation 2 days before the patch and looking at the the data there seem to be no change.
First screenshot is from before 24.1 and 2nd screenshot is from 24.2.  I didn't look much into like injuries or other factors, but to me it look the same.  Looking at Guler even before the patch he got 2 games in and after patch 2 subs :/.
If SI want I can even upload my save but what is the point.

There is little to no change, the bug is still there. Rotation is still terrible. AI teams still never use all 5 substitutions during games. They use 2-3 on average and just do nosensical stuff like subbing in and off central defenders when they are losing the game. I am just tired

Edited December 2, 2023 by abcdf