[SI, nice job!] Condition and fatigue in FM.

Two years ago I have already studied out this topic but since that time there are too much changes in FM so let’s take a look what SI developers were able to rebuild and change. The same guide for FM 2007 you can find at our site fmfan.ru.

1. Theory. What the Condition is.

Watching the player’s profile in FM you can easily find Condition parameter. I m sure that everybody interprets this skill as player’s preparation rate for match. If somebody suggests that it is a physical readiness they will make a mistake. The Condition parameter is a sum of two parameters which you can find in special editors only. One of them called Fitness and the second is Match expertise.

Have I said sum? Yes, it really is but the special one of 86% of Fitness and 14% of Match expertise equal to Condition. These parameters are ranged from 1 to 10000.

2. Theory. What the Fitness is.

This is clear physical conditions. It decreases at the match time. By the way we can see fitness itself for players at the match time. It also decreases in case of injury. Everything else increases in any case and you thing that up to skills – nope, up to Match expertise for sure. So as higher the match experience is as faster fitness restores in general. But, for example more old players restore fitness faster. Let’s see Match experience equals to 10000 for instance^

Player 1 – fitness 8000 in a day- fitness 8925 т.е. the deference is +925

Player 2 – fitness 8500 in a day- fitness 9085 т.е. the deference is +585

Player 3 – fitness 9000 in a day- fitness 9185 т.е. the deference is +185

Player 4 – fitness 9500 in a day- fitness 9700 т.е. the deference is +200

I say that everything is clear here except fitness 9000 variant. Why the deference is +185 but not more? Let it stay the mystery moreover this occasion is clear.

Players with same position loose almost the same fitness quantity. Side midfielders run more so loose more and more fatigued.

Also different matches decrease fitness in different ways. Stamina influence Fitness as well I guess this is more than clear.

3. The theory. What Match expertise is.

Experience, form, team-work this is it. In brief I m going to call this match experience. It increases just in case of player is on the field with +12 per minute velocity (injury time doesn’t count). If players doesn’t take part in the match the experience will decrease up to the Natural Fitness skill. The more this skill is the less Match Expertise decreases.

Skill = 8, decrasing for 88 per day

Skill = 9, decrasing for 87 per day

Skill = 17, decrasing for 77 per day

And the down limit is not 0 but it is predicated by Natural Fitness skill.

Skill = 1, down limit = 5100

Skill = 10, down limit = 6000

Skill = 15, down limit = 6500

Skill = 20, down limit = 7000

Thus the better Natural Fitness skill player has the slower he loses the match experience and the faster it restores.

4. The theory. What the Jadedness is.

The fatigue is rather easy to get. The only one question I have why this parameter is hidden?

Players get tired for 40-50 points of Jadedness per match. Everything depends on position and instructions for game. At the other days Jadedness restores for -6 points per day. You can see “Player needs a rest” in profiles sometimes which appears when player gets 500 Jadedness. In brief it can be either with + or with -. You shouldn’t bring up to that huge figure because the fall of playing starts fro 350-500 points.

5. Question for SI staff.

Why trainings hasn’t any influence with player’s physical condition? Is it fair that after either light or hard trainings player gains 6 Jadedness?

And what for we can find Rest button if it doesn’t influence with Jadedness as well?

© Maks, Alidance (FMFan.ru)

Very interesting, I guess. Not sure I understand everything though.

What I did get is this:

1. Player condition is not an actual representation of the player's physical readiness. Its a combo of two hidden parameters = fitness and match experience?

2. A player with high match experience will restore fitness faster than players with less match experience.

3. A player needs 12 or more minutes of game time to increase his match experience (not counting injury time).

4. A player with high natural fitness will lose match experience at a slower rate than a player with less natural fitness.

5. A player with high natural fitness will restore match experience faster than a player with less natural fitness.

6. Giving a player a period of rest will not reduce his jadedness (?).

1. Yes

Yes, it really is but the special one of 86% of Fitness and 14% of Match expertise equal to Condition. These parameters are ranged from 1 to 10000.

2. Yes

So as higher the match experience is as faster fitness restores in general. But, for example more old players restore fitness faster.

3. No

Every minute on the field = +12 Match Expierence

4. Absolutely YES

5. Not so absolutely, but YES, depends on point 4)

6. Absolutely YES

Shevelevee, this is excellent ! . Just as great as your training experiment last year.

3. No

Every minute on the field = +12 Match Expierence

Ah. That makes more sense. Thanks.

Joor, thx, but this test was done by Maks, my friend from our website, not by me)

Great analysis! So what can we actually DO with this information?

This is very interesting. Waiting for a reply from SI...

To do pre-seson trainings and to send players on rest it is not necessary?

You're absolutely right, m8

Such situation completely not similar on a IRL!

SI...reply!? Ha-ha-ha

I guess mostly the staff is interested in answering question which official guides cannot help with. This is not kinda code mysteries publishing but just telling ppl how exactly the things are.

Nice! Good work!

It is big problem! I`m not happy, but ... shevelevee and Maks, you are really the best.

I find the original post too hard to read in the broken English it's written in, but the figures are interesting although not really suprising to me. I don't have any problems with condition or fatigue in my games.

May be we need some explanation from SI? Or it is not so critical as unrealistic arrows?)

May be we need some explanation from SI? Or it is not so critical as unrealistic arrows?)

Obviously I'm missing a critical point of this whole thread - so what exactly are you wanting SI to answer and explain? What faults have your 'findings' shown up?

As an earlier poster asked - what exactly is this information useful for?

Critical...

1. The player does not get tired of heavy trainings more or easy

2. There is no effect of that I send the player to have a rest

Why it does not work?

Critical...

1. The player does not get tired of heavy trainings more or easy

2. There is no effect of that I send the player to have a rest

Why it does not work?

This is not proven or backed up with stats though. Yes, there's some explanations about what the figures mean, but no actual data that's collected from all sorts of different situations. In order to make such claims, we will need to see extensive tests and their results, accompanied by screens etc. There's none of that in here, just the 2 sentences in bold. It falls short of being a decent analysis.

I did this test as you speak 2 years ago. Since then has changed nothing. The same guide for FM 2007 you can find at our site fmfan.ru.

Btw look here for example

http://www.fm-britain.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=7134

or here

http://www.fm-britain.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=4854

Conditions in FM2007 (Maks, shevelevee, fmfan.ru). Translated from Russian. sorry for mistakes, sorry for bad English, bit this arcticle is very interesting

For last week at our forum has arisen not one theme with questions of stability of performances of skills, unexpected recessions in game and questions of rotation in a team. In this article I shall not concern tactics and a moral condition of a team which too can lead to recession in game of a command. I shall consider training process and a physical condition of players.

I shall begin with that I shall tell from what the physics of the player consists. The first, as we see in the game, refers to it Condition, disorder from 1 % up to 100 %. Also, there are latent characteristics which we shall look by FMM. Fitness (further fitness), changes from 1 up to 10 000, Jadedness (further the weariness), is limited by numbers-1000 - +1000, the more, the worse and Match exercise (further match experience), can change from 1 up to 10 000, are hidden from our look

Condition

As I already spoke, it is a unique visible numerical parameter of readiness of the player to a match. It is measured in percentage. It is not complex to assume, that conditions develop from hidden skills. As it has appeared not from all three, but only from fitness and match experience. In a proportion 86 to 14. For example, at the maximal fitness in 10 000 and match experience only 6 000, conditions will be 94 %. By the way I likely have deceived you, conditions not unique visible skill when we play a match at the player not conditions constantly decrease, and figures close to fitness. You I think noticed that when the match comes to an end, the final whistle is distributed and at all players only won back match figures of conditions of that were visible during a match increase. There is a recalculation fitness + match experience.

Match exercise

One of making conditions. Very interesting skill. Changes depending on lead time for a field, namely +12 for every minute, and for a match of 1070 units. To tell the truth, there were no matches with additional time, whether that it will check up to increase in extra times, but I can precisely tell, that time added by the arbitrator to times is not considered. If the player has played a match in current of 7-8 days match experience does not decrease (if after that the player does not play), then it starts to decrease for a day losing 74-82 items. The size lost match experience causes skills player Natural Fitness. The more skill, the fewer players lose. Here so.

2 - 94

4 - 92

6 - 88

8 - 86

10 - 84

12 - 82

14 - 80

16 - 78

18 - 76

20 - 74

The first are skills, the second are points of falling.

Will fall match experience not infinitely and at all up to unit, and up to the minimal value established besides Natural Fitness.

1 - 5100

10 - 6000

15 - 6500

20 - 7000

The first skill, second minimally possible value match experience at such skill. I shall remind, that at the best readiness on skill fitness, but not having game practice, the player cannot act on 100 %.

Fitness

Second constituent of conditions. If we look at correlations of fitness and match experience (86 by 14), it is possible to draw a conclusion, that this skill far more important, than experience. He changes from 1 to 10 000. Diminishes during matches and at traumas, in other time increased. Thus increased always on the defined value, set programmers beforehand, unconnected not with one player skills. Approximately it takes a place whew.

9900 - 56

9800 - 73

9700 - 112

9100 - 112

8750 - 290

8500 - 520

8000 - 520

7000 - 750

2000 - 995

1000 - 1300

The first is the size of the fitness, the second increase a day.

The truth it is necessary to tell, that playing players, instead of sitting on a bench, increase fitness absolutely under other formula. To trace it was not possible, and if fairly that it simply very long and tiresomely. But these figures approximately in 1, 5 - 2 times more resulted in the table. As an example, the player of the basic structure who only has won back the next match increases the fitness so

9875 - 100

9700 - 175

9500 - 200

9300 - 200

From this table it is visible, that with quite good stamina (namely it defines fitness in a match) for full restoration 5-6 days is necessary for the player. If games go in 3 days fitness falls.

In the experiment, I did 4 identical players who played on different positions (МС-2 and MRL). Players similar on positions lose about identical quantity of fitness. Extreme halfbacks run more and accordingly lose more, and get tired it is more. Different matches on heat and complexities reduce fitness on a miscellaneous.

Jadedness

And here this skill defines weariness of the player. For a match the player gets approximately 45-50 units, the quantity is defined by a position of the player on a floor and probably tactical installations. Defenders lose less, attacking it is more. Goalkeepers so in general lose only 15 points. The player can receive more points if has been traumatized or even simply painful impact. Increases and if to be exact decreases since positive value is angrily, and than it is better than themes less. And so, for a day it changes on-6 at any player. That you would not do with trainings or skill players-6 is a constant. This skill in the answer for recession of a command in the middle of a season, well or the end. It based on the lead research imho. Leaders of a command who play without replacements quickly enough reach value in 250 point () and start to play not stably, and after 300-from recession begins. To a word, 351 weariness and in a structure of the player appears an inscription «Rest is necessary."

Trainings

Well, and that trainings are asked by you. Yes anything, they do not influence in any way a physical condition of players. They answer only for skills. Therefore do pre-season, do not do, all is uniform. By the way and rest can leave for something another, but only not for conditions, it too in any way will not change them.

Conclusions.

As always will make and all of us with pleasure we shall discuss them with you directly in this theme.

Personally I have very much surprised, that restoration of fitness and conditions does not depend from player's skills. That there is no communication with trainings. Well also that rotation vital and only it can help to avoid recessions in game of a command. Theoretically, it is possible to calculate approximately when this or that player need a rest and approximately to develop as well as whom to replace.

Btw, all these tests you can done by yourself using any real time editors. But we will try to describe and translate if you need. Strange, that without any tests somebody decide that arrows are unrealitic)

This look so much like a scientific study! lol. Good job!

Unfortunately there is no answer from SI yet. But the question is really important. I'm also a member of the fmfan site, the article from 2007 was smth like sensation and shevelevee is right that no changes were made. And can we expect them?

Two years ago I have already studied out this topic but since that time there are too much changes in FM so let’s take a look what SI developers were able to rebuild and change. The same guide for FM 2007 you can find at our site fmfan.ru.

1. Theory. What the Condition is.

Watching the player’s profile in FM you can easily find Condition parameter. I m sure that everybody interprets this skill as player’s preparation rate for match. If somebody suggests that it is a physical readiness they will make a mistake. The Condition parameter is a sum of two parameters which you can find in special editors only. One of them called Fitness and the second is Match expertise.

Have I said sum? Yes, it really is but the special one of 86% of Fitness and 14% of Match expertise equal to Condition. These parameters are ranged from 1 to 10000.

2. Theory. What the Fitness is.

This is clear physical conditions. It decreases at the match time. By the way we can see fitness itself for players at the match time. It also decreases in case of injury. Everything else increases in any case and you thing that up to skills – nope, up to Match expertise for sure. So as higher the match experience is as faster fitness restores in general. But, for example more old players restore fitness faster. Let’s see Match experience equals to 10000 for instance^

Player 1 – fitness 8000 in a day- fitness 8925 т.е. the deference is +925

Player 2 – fitness 8500 in a day- fitness 9085 т.е. the deference is +585

Player 3 – fitness 9000 in a day- fitness 9185 т.е. the deference is +185

Player 4 – fitness 9500 in a day- fitness 9700 т.е. the deference is +200

I say that everything is clear here except fitness 9000 variant. Why the deference is +185 but not more? Let it stay the mystery moreover this occasion is clear.

Players with same position loose almost the same fitness quantity. Side midfielders run more so loose more and more fatigued.

Also different matches decrease fitness in different ways. Stamina influence Fitness as well I guess this is more than clear.

3. The theory. What Match expertise is.

Experience, form, team-work this is it. In brief I m going to call this match experience. It increases just in case of player is on the field with +12 per minute velocity (injury time doesn’t count). If players doesn’t take part in the match the experience will decrease up to the Natural Fitness skill. The more this skill is the less Match Expertise decreases.

Skill = 8, decrasing for 88 per day

Skill = 9, decrasing for 87 per day

Skill = 17, decrasing for 77 per day

And the down limit is not 0 but it is predicated by Natural Fitness skill.

Skill = 1, down limit = 5100

Skill = 10, down limit = 6000

Skill = 15, down limit = 6500

Skill = 20, down limit = 7000

Thus the better Natural Fitness skill player has the slower he loses the match experience and the faster it restores.

4. The theory. What the Jadedness is.

The fatigue is rather easy to get. The only one question I have why this parameter is hidden?

Players get tired for 40-50 points of Jadedness per match. Everything depends on position and instructions for game. At the other days Jadedness restores for -6 points per day. You can see “Player needs a rest” in profiles sometimes which appears when player gets 500 Jadedness. In brief it can be either with + or with -. You shouldn’t bring up to that huge figure because the fall of playing starts fro 350-500 points.

5. Question for SI staff.

Why trainings hasn’t any influence with player’s physical condition? Is it fair that after either light or hard trainings player gains 6 Jadedness?

And what for we can find Rest button if it doesn’t influence with Jadedness as well?

© Maks, Alidance (FMFan.ru)

Um, how do you know all of this?

Rupert - did you see post #21?

Very interesting to note that rest does not speed up recovery. I shall use rest only when I want to guarantee no training injury (as I do when I'm in the process of negotiating a player sale).

Sorry for bumping a 3+ year old thread but I didn't know about the "86% of Fitness and 14% of Match expertise equal to Condition".

Was curious if this is still current with FM12?