20 shots for me to score 3 goals and 4 for them to score 3 goals too

***FM2013***

Team: TSG 1899 Hoffenheim (5th season) [7th-6th-6th-14th]

League: Budesligua

Country: Germany

Formation/Style/Strategy: 4-1-2-2-1 Rigid/Attacking

Match instructions: Get ball forward/Play narrower/Push higher up/Hassle opponents/Get stuck in

Seasons expectations: Mid-table

It looks like despite the ammendments I've made to my tactics, as discussed here (see link below)

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/444437-Dominating-game-but-loosing-at-the-end

I am still conceding some easy goals, despite my scoring stats having slightly improved.

Before the ammendments, goals For/Ag were 3-6 in 5 matches and after, it is recpectively 8-9 in 4 matches.

So, I am scoring an average of 2 goals/game and concede 1.25 goals/game, compare to the first 5 matches, where I was scoring 0.6 goals/game and conceding 1.2 goals/game.

There is an obvious improvement at the frequency my team scores, but I also started to concede a bit more too.

Now, the way I concede is the "most fun", it's a constant and painful repetition of the same thing, no matter who's the opponent, the weather conditions, pitch size, tactics, formation etc:

1. Opponent winger runs down his side, dribbles my full back and his closest CB and usually reaches the 6 yard box and scores. My defenders look like time has stopped for them.

2. Opponent winger runs down his side, dribbles my full back, crosses the ball to the opposite side and an unmarked winger or striker scores to an unguarded goalpost. Somehow, all my 4 defenders get "stuck together" and chase the running winger all together, simultabeously, leaving the 6 yard box completely empty from defenders, hence easy for attackers to score. I think that was a bug since the time of the very first 3D match engine.

3. Opponent midfielders make successful through passes through the 2 CBs like if they are not there. It seems like I can't find a cue for that one.

Last game (Hoffenheim vs Augsburg 3-3), I made 20 shots to score 3 goals and they scored 3 goals with 4 shots (and the 3 ways I describe above).

Obviously my CB had a bad day at the office and my GK was 18yo and this was his 1st ever match at this level.

What are they doing to score so easily and I need to go through so much sweat and tears to get the same result?

Why do the reach my 6 yard box so easily and I cannot do the same?

Augsburg's and Hoffenheim's shots:

Players average position:

My tactics/formation after the ammendments:

Match overview:

First thought is you had 20 shots of which it looks like 16 were outside the box. They had 4, all from inside the box. 4 good chances trumps 20 poor ones more often than not.

Your full backs are high up the pitch and there is a big gap to your AMLR. That leaves you horribly exposed down the flanks leading to goal description 1 and 2.

If your BBM and AP made forward runs along with your FB on the R then you would be in a world of trouble.

IMHO you are far too aggressive and leaving yourself massively exposed to sucker punches while creating next to nothing of substance yourself.

I mean you've got like 90% of your shots coming from outside of the box, what did you think would happen?

I agree with everything Argente wrote above.

You need to tone down the aggressive play and try to focus on creating quality over quantity in your chances. Defensively you need to figure out what type of team you're going to be because... why on earth are you trying to attack the hell out of the opposition if you're a mid table side in Germany? It's suicidal from a defensive standpoint.

Long shots just mean your team is not making runs or opening up space in the final third, forcing players to shoot from long (no choice). This just mean you are getting outplayed by their defenders.

Long shots just mean your team is not making runs or opening up space in the final third, forcing players to shoot from long (no choice). This just mean you are getting outplayed by their defenders.

I came to post this

Watch the game back and look at the shots the players had. Watch the build up to what happens before the shot and it will tell you the reason why the person is shooting when he is.

First thought is you had 20 shots of which it looks like 16 were outside the box. They had 4, all from inside the box. 4 good chances trumps 20 poor ones more often than not.

Your full backs are high up the pitch and there is a big gap to your AMLR. That leaves you horribly exposed down the flanks leading to goal description 1 and 2.

If your BBM and AP made forward runs along with your FB on the R then you would be in a world of trouble.

IMHO you are far too aggressive and leaving yourself massively exposed to sucker punches while creating next to nothing of substance yourself.

"Your full backs are high up the pitch and there is a big gap to your AMLR. That leaves you horribly exposed down the flanks leading to goal description 1 and 2."

I can see your point and it hasn't gone unoticed by me neither but when I keep my full backs close to CBs, there is no connections between them and the wingers.

"IMHO you are far too aggressive and leaving yourself massively exposed to sucker punches while creating next to nothing of substance yourself."

As you said, I am to aggressive, because whenever I am not, I concede 1-2 goals but score none.

Also, it's the creation of chances that I lack. Last thing I want, is my players shooting from long range. I hate it and I never ask them to shoot on sight.

But they do because, I guess, they can't find anything else!

I will try to go more balanced mentality, as I tried control but it was another disaster.

I mean you've got like 90% of your shots coming from outside of the box, what did you think would happen?

I agree with everything Argente wrote above.

You need to tone down the aggressive play and try to focus on creating quality over quantity in your chances. Defensively you need to figure out what type of team you're going to be because... why on earth are you trying to attack the hell out of the opposition if you're a mid table side in Germany? It's suicidal from a defensive standpoint.

This is what I wanted to point out.

Why opponents of similar or lower strength create chances against my team and I can't?

The reason I play attacking football with an average club in Germany is that this way I won Bayern Munich and Dordmund (once each) and last season, trying to go "control" game, I ended last and I managed to save the day, finishing 14th by playing attacking/fluid footballl!

The problem is that I started playing in Greek Superleague, then got "a job" in Portuguese Superleague, Italy (C1) then Serbian Superleague, Czech Republic Superleague and control football always worked quite well, being always in the first 5 with best attack and defense.

In Germany, it is a different story.

I tried to go more conservative, I only concede.

I tried more balanced strategy, I might not concede much, but I rarely scored.

I will try to put a mix of all the hints I am getting and see what happens next.

Long shots just mean your team is not making runs or opening up space in the final third, forcing players to shoot from long (no choice). This just mean you are getting outplayed by their defenders.

So, would you suggest a play through defense/work ball in the box with a more balanced strategy, as a solution to the lack of creating real chances?

So, would you suggest a play through defense/work ball in the box with a more balanced strategy, as a solution to the lack of creating real chances?

If it's a lack of support then how do any of those help with that? Lack of options is down to bad balance and support from players. No amount of TI's can solve that, it's down to the role and duties.

If it's a lack of support then how do any of those help with that? Lack of options is down to bad balance and support from players. No amount of TI's can solve that, it's down to the role and duties.

Μy style was always to play with DM and MCs, no BBm, BWM or DLPs (for DLPs I never understood how it works).

Simple straight forward for midfield, which worked pretty well.

What would your suggestion be, as a guideline, for a mid-table Team in Germany?

Μy style was always to play with DM and MCs, no BBm, BWM or DLPs (for DLPs I never understood how it works).

Simple straight forward for midfield, which worked pretty well.

What would your suggestion be, as a guideline, for a mid-table Team in Germany?

Every thread ends up with the same thing, you and others missing the point. You need to discover why the players currently shooting lack support. This requires you to watch the games back like stated previously. There is no set guideline. And if you don't try and solve this issue by actually watching games and the clips back then it will follow you from save to save. Unless you pin point the exact issue and reason why, you can't fix it. Only you have access to all of that I'm afraid.

Every thread ends up with the same thing, you and others missing the point. You need to discover why the players currently shooting lack support. This requires you to watch the games back like stated previously. There is no set guideline. And if you don't try and solve this issue by actually watching games and the clips back then it will follow you from save to save. Unless you pin point the exact issue and reason why, you can't fix it. Only you have access to all of that I'm afraid.

I am doing that, this is how I improved my scoring sequence.

I will watch more, to see if I come up with something, thanks.

Have you considered that the AP-A is a bad fit for such an attacking system? He will often get bypassed in midfield because you're telling the team to be attacking, which means quick transitions / get the ball from back to front ASAP. The AP-A is a role that would slow play down, and force play through the middle. Do you really want that?

In a 4-1-2-2-1 / 4-3-3 shape you need to be really careful about who is scoring the goals. The IF-A on the AML spot is your only serious goal threat. The CF-S will have to act as the #10 and drop deep to receive the ball (think of Wayne Rooney of today... everything comes to feet, it's dreadful) otherwise he gets isolated. So the winger on the right stays wide (and somewhat deep on support) so who is going to help the IF-A with the goal scoring?

IF's are notorious for taking tons of long shots in FM. I don't think you should avoid using one, I've used them to great success, but you need the right support around them. And you need more options in attack.

For example...

What if you changed AP-A to CM-A? Now you'll have someone making driving runs into the box, who can score goals. The BBM is great partner to link the CM-A and DM-D, in my opinion.

These are small changes that would make a huge difference. Right now if I was playing against your team, I'd love it. You have 1 true goal threat, and if I can use an offsides trap properly, you'll never get a shot in my box, you know what I mean? There's nobody that needs picking up running through the middle. The AP-A will dribble a bit but... He's not an "attacking" midfielder, you know? He's a playmaker first and foremost.

Have you considered that the AP-A is a bad fit for such an attacking system? He will often get bypassed in midfield because you're telling the team to be attacking, which means quick transitions / get the ball from back to front ASAP. The AP-A is a role that would slow play down, and force play through the middle. Do you really want that?

In a 4-1-2-2-1 / 4-3-3 shape you need to be really careful about who is scoring the goals. The IF-A on the AML spot is your only serious goal threat. The CF-S will have to act as the #10 and drop deep to receive the ball (think of Wayne Rooney of today... everything comes to feet, it's dreadful) otherwise he gets isolated. So the winger on the right stays wide (and somewhat deep on support) so who is going to help the IF-A with the goal scoring?

IF's are notorious for taking tons of long shots in FM. I don't think you should avoid using one, I've used them to great success, but you need the right support around them. And you need more options in attack.

For example...

What if you changed AP-A to CM-A? Now you'll have someone making driving runs into the box, who can score goals. The BBM is great partner to link the CM-A and DM-D, in my opinion.

These are small changes that would make a huge difference. Right now if I was playing against your team, I'd love it. You have 1 true goal threat, and if I can use an offsides trap properly, you'll never get a shot in my box, you know what I mean? There's nobody that needs picking up running through the middle. The AP-A will dribble a bit but... He's not an "attacking" midfielder, you know? He's a playmaker first and foremost.

I totally agree with you.

I've already changed AP/att to CM/att, after watching clips from previous matches.

You are also right for the CF/sup, I want him to be No 10, as in my tactics, there's nobody else to do that.

I also put both my full-backs to support, although the opposite side from my IF has attacking mentality. The one behind the IF has normal.

I'm hoping that this way, the massive gaps on my flanks might narrow down a bit.