Virtual Memory Clarification

I'm hoping that someone reading this forum will be able to clarify comething for me.

I've just re-built my machine, Q9540 overclocked and wtaercooled to 3.6ghz. Nice and fast with 4x1gig pc8500 ram.

After the re-bulild I re-installed Windows XP (32bit). I normally create a dual boot system with Vista 64bit and install FM08 on the Vista drive.

As I hadn't had my fix of FM08 for a few days (and haven't yet installed Vista) I installed it on the XP drive; knowing I could install the game on Vista later and carry on my saved game.

Now, I selected every single league possible, everyone of them on full detail and all playable. I also selected the number of recent folders in file dailogs to 10 and the database to large.

I wanted to give my system a good work out.

I set this up (took about 5-10mins to process this), started unemployed and went on holiday until the 1st of September.

Around the 27th of July I received a message telling me I was running out of vitual memory. A short while after it said it had run out of virtual memory and quit.

Ok, I know how to increase my paging files, this isn't my question.

My question (finally) is this. Why did it run out of virtual memory when my actual ram usage was only 38%? More to the point, why is it using virtual memory when I have so much actual memory available?

All 4 of the cpu cores were at constant usage of 100% but the ram usage never shifted above 38%.

As I said, I know how to increase the paging files (I have a 500gig Spinpoint F1 drive for each operating system and 1 more for file storage, so space and write speed isn't an issue)

I also realise that 32bit XP can't utilise all 4gig of ram (XP on my machine shows me as only having 3gig), but this doesn't explain the low 38% usage.

I'm going to install Vista 64 and try it on that tonight.

Anyway, as I said, I just wanted to know why, with so much ram available, does the game use up all of my virtual ram instead and quit?

I fear you will need to ask Microsoft that question.

I would assume that FM (or any other well-programmed software) requests memory which is then allocated to it by the operating system (Windows).

Im not sure of the answer but you should have no problems at all. 64 Bit should do better as preformance is much better so just get it on that.

sometimes letting xp handle its own vm just doesn't work. What i normally do is set the page file to be twice the size of the ram installed, min and max so its a constant size. eg i you have 2gb installed set the page file to 4gb. setting it to a static size reduces a lot of the overheads involved.

I'm guessing you don't have an old copy of MS word installed either? its a long short but in older editions of word the spellchecker could cause these prblems even when word wasn't being used!!

use it on vista instead. Vista has much better VM handling. Everyone slags it off, but once you turn off all the bells and whistles, it's much, much better.

Also running with more than 3GB of ram plugged in will make XP generally unstable under certain conditions. This usually seems to involve games of some sort.

Thanks for the replies.

I've installed it on vista now and it's working fine. It still doesn't use more than 51% of the available ram.

I've increased all the page files and it's running just fine (granted, it does take almost 45mins to process a month)

There's nothing wrong with my ram, Prime95 runs perfectly for hours using both the cpu and ram at 100%.

What I was really wanting to know is why the game doesn't tap in to all the available ram? If I have 4gig of ram, why does it only utilise half of that and take the rest from virtual ram?

You often see a lot of advice on here saying buy lots of ram to help speed up your game. This will be true up to a point, but it appears that for some reason this game doesn't use it all.

That being the case, it is just as important with this game, to have a very fast hard drive and very large page files.

BTW, I'm still running all the eye candy on Vista, I just set the page files to a min of 7500 and a max of 15,000.

Originally posted by Chris Waddle:

BTW, I'm still running all the eye candy on Vista, I just set the page files to a min of 7500 and a max of 15,000.

I don't have so much ram, so I generally leave all of the eye candy (and networking crap) disabled. Ends up as a stable, smooth, fast, effective operating system. All they need to do now is to fix explorer, can't understand why they took some of the buttons away.

I also find that Vista is very good at managing VM on its own without messing around witht he pagefile.

I'm not sure what affects whether FM chooses to use RAM or VM, but if you're running all the leagues i suppose the bottleneck will be in the CPU anyway.

Oh, and a fast hard drive is one of the best investments i've ever made.

If you want to use XP with 4gb get the 64bit, as the other one only uses 3GB as the maximum. Also I wouldn't play ALL the leagues.

I only have 2gb, but FM generally only uses 700mb of actual memory with up to 10 nations running, the rest usually comes from VM. I'm guessing vista likes to keep a percentage of RAM free at all times rather than using it all.

Originally posted by Insomniac Ronnie:

If you want to use XP with 4gb get the 64bit, as the other one only uses 3GB as the maximum. Also I wouldn't play ALL the leagues.

I realise about the 3gig issue, I mentioned that in my first post. I have 64bit XP, I'm not a fan as I have driver issues with it, hence my purchase of 64bit Vista.

I normally run all nations, but not all leagues and not everyone on full. I just ran this set up to make sure my overclock was stable. This game is a great stress test on the cpu.

I also thought it would have been a great test of my ram. Obviously it isn't, which has suprised me and prompted me to start thsi thread.

I was just intreagued as to why when 'more ram' is thrown around as a solution to FM gaming issues, it really isn't. If anyone was to ever ask me now how to speed up the game I'd tell them to get a large fast hard drive and set up large page files. This game clearly uses the vram as much if not more than actual ram.

I was also hoping that someone from SI would be able to shed light on why this game doesn't utilse all available ram (or if there was a way to tell the game to access more of it).

As to all the Vista is rubbish 'posters' who may read this (I have been one) it really isn't. From testing the game in this way, Vista 64bit is far quicker to process a month than XP. Granted though, you need a better machine to run it than you do for XP.

Originally posted by Chris Waddle:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Insomniac Ronnie:

If you want to use XP with 4gb get the 64bit, as the other one only uses 3GB as the maximum. Also I wouldn't play ALL the leagues.

I realise about the 3gig issue, I mentioned that in my first post. I have 64bit XP, I'm not a fan as I have driver issues with it, hence my purchase of 64bit Vista.

I normally run all nations, but not all leagues and not everyone on full. I just ran this set up to make sure my overclock was stable. This game is a great stress test on the cpu.

I also thought it would have been a great test of my ram. Obviously it isn't, which has suprised me and prompted me to start thsi thread.

I was just intreagued as to why when 'more ram' is thrown around as a solution to FM gaming issues, it really isn't. If anyone was to ever ask me now how to speed up the game I'd tell them to get a large fast hard drive and set up large page files. This game clearly uses the vram as much if not more than actual ram.

I was also hoping that someone from SI would be able to shed light on why this game doesn't utilse all available ram (or if there was a way to tell the game to access more of it).

As to all the Vista is rubbish 'posters' who may read this (I have been one) it really isn't. From testing the game in this way, Vista 64bit is far quicker to process a month than XP. Granted though, you need a better machine to run it than you do for XP. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like I said, if you have all leagues running, I'm convinced the CPU will be the bottleneck rather than ram. It's the fixture processing.

Originally posted by pelicanstuff:

Also running with more than 3GB of ram plugged in will make XP generally unstable under certain conditions. This usually seems to involve games of some sort.

thats not true, i have 4gb of ram in my xp machine, it only reads 2.7 ive had it like this for well over a year and have not had any problems with anything let alone games

Originally posted by lee50_10:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pelicanstuff:

Also running with more than 3GB of ram plugged in will make XP generally unstable under certain conditions. This usually seems to involve games of some sort.

thats not true, i have 4gb of ram in my xp machine, it only reads 2.7 ive had it like this for well over a year and have not had any problems with anything let alone games </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not something that always happens, but several people have mentioned it to me. Maybe you've got lucky or maybe they've got unlucky, but in all cases, pulling out one of the sticks of ram solved their problem.