How is wage demand calculated?

The situation is as follows:

I have a team in the second division with a total wage budget of €9,000/wk. To get promoted I used the bulk of my transfer budget to sign a top forward (AMC/ST - Uche), apart from that I signed frees. Now the guy was on €1000/wk, plus match highest earner, plus 50% increase on promotion.

2 years later I get promoted, I have some cash to spend. So I buy some good players who are willing to now join my side. However with the 'highest earner clause' the guy is now earning €2,600/wk (plus I guess the wage rise and all) and is my highest earner. /My budget is now €19,000/wk though/ I would like to decrease his wage as he is no longer the star he used to be in this level.

When I go to the negotiation screen, it says we wants €4,000/wk. I'm like ok, I know what to do: Interaction -> private talk -> decrease wage: he says fine! I go back to the negotiation screen, he now only want €3,000/wk. Okay, still too much, his contract is out in a year, better sell him now.

Obviously no offers! The message says noone wants him due to his high wage demand. I just can't sell the bloody guy! Anyway, I fine him, tell him to leave, put him on transfer and basically force him out until he accepts 'mutual termination'.

2 months in, I'm curious as to what's up with him. Well he signed for one of the rivals for €545/wk!!!! Why? He wouldn't accept €1,500/wk from me. He rejected offers from bigger clubs because of his wage! It doesn't make sense to me.

So, the question as per the topiv. How is wage demand calculated?

Maybe your rival has a better reputation that you. Some players are willing to take a wage cut in order to join a better team. So if he feels that he is better than your club he will want more money to play for you as he feels its a step down from where he is at.

Basically you massively overpaid for a player to get you promoted, no one else would have paid him that money, as shown he has signed a new contract much less elsewhere which will be more tied into his rep/ca ability. He wouldnt sign that contract with you because he would have felt he deserves a contract on the level he is currently at, you gave him a top earner clause and a 50% a year wage increase, yet when he does the job for you, you push him out the door fining him and everything else??!!! Would you accept your boss taking you into his office and say "you've done everything i asked of you, done the job i brought you here to do, BUT i am asking you to take a £1,100 wage decrease a week despite us being in a better financial situation." You would leave that job right away, then sit unemployed for a while and take whatever comes your way so you can start to re-build again.

@ljwjones: No, the other club doesn't have a higher reputation.

@milnerpoint: Putting it that way does sound horrid. However the fact is that he was unwilling to sign a new contract where he would still have double (!) the wage which he finally accepted (btw, I'm not better off financially as the money from the extra wages and signings will only materialise at the end of the season. If I stay up that is). Also the fact that he knows he is overpaid as noone else is willing to pay that much. Also when he signed that wasn't his wage... But I agree with your arguement more or less, however I'm still curious as to how the wage is calculated. (Even if it's a spoiler).

How did his wage go that high up? Noone gets that much! Or is the 'highest earner' clause taken into account before the promotion wage rise clause? That's the only situation were I can imagine such an increase!

Edit: BTW his wage is not unreasonable for some of the clubs I offered him to. Meaning he obviously wanted MUCH higher than the €3,000 he was demanding from me.

His wage request will come from a combination of his rep, his ability (which is tied into his rep), wages of your current squad, ie top wage for a 1st teamer ect, rep of your club and league and the contract he is already on. In this case yes he has signed a lesser contract, but only after going unemployed and having to accept what has come his way, he asked for a big contract at you because A he was already on one and B he had done well for you, you gave him all the indications he was your top player, you dont hand out the clauses to any player, only the ones you value the most but know you could struggle to hold onto, so he has looked at it from the point that he is your top player, he wants paid as such, after you fine him and release him he is no longer anyones top player, and as such his demands will reduce to the level that he can get himself back employed.

In regards to the last part, it would depend when he signed for you in the 1st place, and when his contract is due to renew, so if the next year of his contract starts before the new season starts he will have recieved his 50% wage increase before he also got his promotion increase. Also if you signed a player on a bigger contract than him before the season ended he would have got an increase before both the other clauses came into play.

Basically you massively overpaid for a player to get you promoted, no one else would have paid him that money

Which is why it is a bug, because the player should not demand that much if he is indeed overpaid.

If someone is getting paid ten times as much as they really should, when the next round of contract renewals come up, they would just ask for the same amount (perhaps even slightly less!).

This player's decisions are not rational. The objective is to get as much money as possible, and it is obvious that if you are getting overpaid in the first instance, you should try to keep this overpaying club as happy as possible.

as shown he has signed a new contract much less elsewhere which will be more tied into his rep/ca ability. He wouldnt sign that contract with you because he would have felt he deserves a contract on the level he is currently at, you gave him a top earner clause and a 50% a year wage increase, yet when he does the job for you, you push him out the door fining him and everything else??!!! Would you accept your boss taking you into his office and say "you've done everything i asked of you, done the job i brought you here to do, BUT i am asking you to take a £1,100 wage decrease a week despite us being in a better financial situation." You would leave that job right away, then sit unemployed for a while and take whatever comes your way so you can start to re-build again.

But would you leave a £4,000/week job for £500/week?

Sure, maybe the club hasn't treated him as well as they would have liked... But when the alternative (leaving) has a salary drop of around 75%, leaving really is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Let's not forget that a professional player's career is short and Uche has not had many opportunities to amass money compared with the top players... A difference of £3,500 per week is a lot of money to give up.

So the bug is simple - players ask for too much money.

add the mutual termination fee you paid him, he could see this as a top-up to his £500/week.

But would you leave a £4,000/week job for £500/week?

So the bug is simple - players ask for too much money.

But that is not what has happened, he has left his £2.4k a week job, thinking he deserves to be paid between £3-4k because he is so overpaid, he then obviously has not been able to secure a contract he thought he could and as such has had to take the next available job for whatever pay is being offered. In this case to get back employed he has had to dramatically reduce his demands.

Players ask for too much money full stop, its not a bug, although im sure you will muti quote me and pull ridiculous analogies to prove otherwise. How does this situation compare to buying a car??

add the mutual termination fee you paid him, he could see this as a top-up to his £500/week.

It depends on how large the mutual termination fee is.

If the contract is a long one, it may be better for him to stay. He's 29 in reality so this will be his last big payday, after all.

But after doing everything asked of him, then being treated like dirt and forced out. Take the lump some and go finish career somewhere where they are wanted. Makes sense to me.

But that is not what has happened, he has left his £2.4k a week job, thinking he deserves to be paid between £3-4k because he is so overpaid, he then obviously has not been able to secure a contract he thought he could and as such has had to take the next available job for whatever pay is being offered. In this case to get back employed he has had to dramatically reduce his demands.

He shouldn't have had those demands in the first place. That's the bug.

If you are overpaid, you should suck up to your boss to keep your job. He was lucky enough to land a contract like that in the first place - he should be trying to stay there at all costs.

It's easy to identify he's being overpaid - similar players elsewhere are not getting paid as much as him. The average amount appears to be around £545/week.

In reality, because the player is unlikely to get a wage deduction, the player should really be asking for £1,000/week, the same as he is on right now, which maximises his chance of staying, but reduces his chance of getting £545/week.

The moment the manager said he wanted him to lower his wage demands, a red light should have gone up in the player's mind, realising that the manager is calling his bluff, and reduced his demands substantially. He'd still be overpaid on £1,000/week - maybe he should go for £1,000/week?

Players ask for too much money full stop, its not a bug, although im sure you will muti quote me and pull ridiculous analogies to prove otherwise. How does this situation compare to buying a car??

To be fair, he's not the only one: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/290212-Players-signing-for-AI-club-for-6-times-less-than-they-would-take-from-me!?highlight=wages

If I know I'm overpaid, I don't go demanding a 4 times wage increase - I stick quietly with what I have now. Especially if I were at the peak of my career.

But after doing everything asked of him, then being treated like dirt and forced out. Take the lump some and go finish career somewhere where they are wanted. Makes sense to me.

Kalu Uche has never really been able to play in the top tier leagues as a professional and will therefore be lucky if he even has half a million pounds worth of savings, which he will have to live on for the rest of his life. This is the dilemma faced by professional footballers everywhere, except for the top-tier ones who will have no issues living in luxury for the rest of their lives.

He will never be able to get paid so much for the rest of his career - he shouldn't be leaving in a huff. The reality is that he, like many footballers of his age, are simply looking for their final big payday.

A, say, two-year contract at £1,000/week is £104,000 in total - that's a lot of money for a player like Uche, and it's guaranteed money.

It doesn't really matter that he's being "treated badly" - he was treated really well initially, anyway - and he would still be rewarded rather handsomely if he had taken a wage cut.

Have you even read the OP or are you just arguing for the sake of it?

The op admits he signed him because at that level he was a star, which suggest the player was able to hold down a spot at a higher level, but the OP convinced him to drop a level by over paying him, he also gave the player a huge yearly wage increase (50%) and a promotion wage increase, so by the time he has tried to offer this player a new deal his wages have already more than doubled. A few weeks after this player gets his new bumper contract the manager then asks him to more than half his wages, put yourself in that position, you a premier league player, dropped down to help a smaller team get promoted with the promise of a bumper pay day if you manage it, you manage and the team goes up, you get your new bumper pay deal and a week later the manager pulls you in and tells you he can only keep you if you half your wages that you have just received, are you going to just accept that and walk away??

What is wrong with a player trying to get the most amount of money possible from his current employer?

As milnerpoint has eluded to the game has simulated a scenario where the player has screwed himself by over-estimating his managers valuation & has now backed himself into a corner where he has to accept his true value & take whatever contract comes along.

@ the OP, how long after leaving your club did he join his new team? Did he have an agent when contracted to your club? Has that agent since been fired?

Okay, still too much, his contract is out in a year, better sell him now.

Obviously no offers! The message says noone wants him due to his high wage demand. I just can't sell the bloody guy! Anyway, I fine him, tell him to leave, put him on transfer and basically force him out until he accepts 'mutual termination'.

2 months in, I'm curious as to what's up with him. Well he signed for one of the rivals for €545/wk!!!! Why? He wouldn't accept €1,500/wk from me. He rejected offers from bigger clubs because of his wage! It doesn't make sense to me.

It's hard to get rid of players full stop on FM12.

I've had players on £300 a week, offered them out to clubs, then I get an inbox message saying no offers received but teams like Wrexham/Bradford/Chesterfield/Yeovil are interested, but they are not willing to make an offer for the player, because his wage demands would be too high.

I click on those clubs, most have an average wage of £800-£1500 a week... okaaay then.

Have you even read the OP or are you just arguing for the sake of it?

The op admits he signed him because at that level he was a star, which suggest the player was able to hold down a spot at a higher level, but the OP convinced him to drop a level by over paying him, he also gave the player a huge yearly wage increase (50%) and a promotion wage increase, so by the time he has tried to offer this player a new deal his wages have already more than doubled. A few weeks after this player gets his new bumper contract the manager then asks him to more than half his wages, put yourself in that position, you a premier league player, dropped down to help a smaller team get promoted with the promise of a bumper pay day if you manage it, you manage and the team goes up, you get your new bumper pay deal and a week later the manager pulls you in and tells you he can only keep you if you half your wages that you have just received, are you going to just accept that and walk away??

It depends on the length of the original contract (which determines the termination fee).

I have three choices:

- Cutting my salary by 75% (only viable with a substantial termination fee)

- Say no and stick to my guns with the stupid contract (viable if it's a long-term contract, possibly viable even if it's short-term if I can get £545/week after the contract expires)

- Accept €1,500/week (viable if it's a decent wage and long-term, as it's guaranteed money)

They are worth, over a 3 year period:

- Assuming a 3-year contract: €545 * 52 * 3 = €85,020 + termination fee

- Assuming 2 years remaining: €2,600 * 52 * 2 = €270,400 + 1 year's worth of future salary

- Assuming a new 3-year contract: €1,500 * 52 * 3 = €234,000 + signing bonus

It looks like there are two choices - and to cut my salary by 75% looks unviable. Unless, of course, the termination fee is high.

In order for me to jump ship and cut my salary by 75%, I would need €2,055 * 52 = €106,860 per year of my original contract length as compensation (this is the difference in salary between the two clubs). If this is offered, then I would take it (money today is worth more than money tomorrow) then jump ship.

Given I could potentially get a 3-year (or maybe longer) deal for, say, €1,500/week, this works out to €234,000 - this is still potentially the better financial decision.

Sure, it's a broken promise by the manager, but what can Uche do about that? He knows the manager holds all the cards - he shouldn't be stupid to try and fight it.

You are working on the unproven premise that the player concerned knew he would only get £545 pw if he left.

There should be a 4th choice; player knows in his mind that he is worth €3000 pw & is sure he can get this elsewhere so he declines the €1500 pw on offer, takes his compensation for contract termination (the amount is irrelevant as he will get a decent contract very soon) & starts to look for a new club.

oh dear........

Hahaha i dont know what disillusions you have of footballers, but there is no chance of ANY player more than halving his wages only weeks after getting a huge bumper pay increase. In a perfect world what your describing would happen, but it doesnt, the reality is the player would rather keep his big contract in the hope someone else will match it, but the OP has fined him for nothing, and treated him badly, would you be happy in a job that has A gone back on their promises to the point they are demanding you more than half your wages, B then fine you when you refuse, and C very forcefully push you out the door, would you then go crawling back in and say "your right boss, here let me bend over for you"??

Your sums are all nice and fancy but when you break it down to see the reality of the situation there really isnt much wrong here, just your instance to prove me wrong and highlight bugs in a game you dont play. I'm sure we will argue semantics soon, just to round this conversation off.

You are working on the unproven premise that the player concerned knew he would only get £545 pw if he left.

Which his agent should know fairly easily. The agent should know roughly how much he should really be expecting to get if he leaves.

There should be a 4th choice; player knows in his mind that he is worth €3000 pw & is sure he can get this elsewhere so he declines the €1500 pw on offer, takes his compensation for contract termination (the amount is irrelevant as he will get a decent contract very soon) & starts to look for a new club.

In all honesty, I don't think the player thinks that way - the user pulled out all the stops to get the player signed, so it is obvious that he has been treated very specially by the user, hence he is likely on a silly contract.

There is no indication that an agent has been involved in this contract negotiations, if there has then the problem may well be in the manager-agent-player relationship link, even then agents can lead players along a blind alley so it is not certain that there is a problem.

Thinking ahead to any counter point on this issue;

I've seen examples of players agreeing to reduced terms for a longer deal, players getting better deals after leaving, players going to other clubs for less money or joining my side for what appears to be a low wage considering the other clubs who offered terms.

One contract negotiation in one save game does not suggest that there is a problem with the entire system, I agree with many people that the contract/transfer system does need some fine tuning but before anyone says it the system is not broken, what is needed is for a balanced lists of a single players entire transfer/contract dealings over a couple of seasons any single instance to offer a fair assessment of how good or bad the current system is.

Single instances from multiple unconnected save games does not prove anything.

Hahaha i dont know what disillusions you have of footballers, but there is no chance of ANY player more than halving his wages only weeks after getting a huge bumper pay increase.

Why? Because it certainly doesn't make financial sense...

What's in the past is in the past - the player can do nothing about that.

In a perfect world what your describing would happen, but it doesnt, the reality is the player would rather keep his big contract in the hope someone else will match it, but the OP has fined him for nothing, and treated him badly, would you be happy in a job that has A gone back on their promises to the point they are demanding you more than half your wages, B then fine you when you refuse, and C very forcefully push you out the door, would you then go crawling back in and say "your right boss, here let me bend over for you"??

If a manager treats me that badly, I would definitely aim to milk the current club for all they have got and keep my original contract. Do the absolute minimum to get paid.

If the manager continues to treat me badly, it will rub off on the squad - in reality, this would upset other teammates too.

Your sums are all nice and fancy but when you break it down to see the reality of the situation there really isnt much wrong here, just your instance to prove me wrong and highlight bugs in a game you dont play.

The reality is that financially, Uche is not filthy rich - no professional in the lower tiers is. This is the peak of his career - he will never earn as much as he does right now.

It doesn't matter if someone has treated me badly - I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face. I would be giving up hundreds of thousands of euros just to be with a nicer boss.

Uche was stuck in Espanyol B for a year - he knows what "football hardship" is like. To be badly-treated like this is absolutely nothing.

There is no indication that an agent has been involved in this contract negotiations, if there has then the problem may well be in the manager-agent-player relationship link, even then agents can lead players along a blind alley so it is not certain that there is a problem.

An agent likely is involved - a professional player who is a foreigner would definitely benefit from one. If not, he still has friends who will be able to shed some light on the wage situation (there are a number of players in the Nigeria team that are at similar levels, for example).

Im pretty sure the real career path of the player is not coded into the game to the extend your making out the player in FM will have no concept of the hardships his real life version has gone through and anyway, as you say the past is in the past, what has happened to him before doesnt matter to what is happening to him now. The player isnt really been giving the chance to see out his contract, even if he did the OP is proabaly going to keep fining him until he has no other choice, have you taken the fines into account with your fancy number play above? Keeping in mind in the game the OP could fine him every other week and not play him. So in effect ending his career whilst barely paying him.

I do not believe for one second you would sit there happily whilst getting fined, hammered and mistreated on a daily basis, just to try and milk the club, not in the pinnacle of your career.

@ x42bn6 Stop attributing quotes to me when I had nothing to do with them.

Im pretty sure the real career path of the player is not coded into the game to the extend your making out the player in FM will have no concept of the hardships his real life version has gone through and anyway, as you say the past is in the past, what has happened to him before doesnt matter to what is happening to him now.

Including past promises.

The player isnt really been giving the chance to see out his contract, even if he did the OP is proabaly going to keep fining him until he has no other choice, have you taken the fines into account with your fancy number play above? Keeping in mind in the game the OP could fine him every other week and not play him. So in effect ending his career whilst barely paying him.

Can you fine players for no reason? I thought this was taken out in FM09/FM10 as it was too easy to unsettle a player.

If I were Uche, I wouldn't allow them to fine me - I'd turn up to training and continue playing as I do.

I do not believe for one second you would sit there happily whilst getting fined, hammered and mistreated on a daily basis, just to try and milk the club, not in the pinnacle of your career.

He's past the pinnacle of his career - he's going for his final pay day.

I would milk the club for they have if they treat me badly.

The promises have already come into play he has the improved contract they promised him, he has the huge wage increase already,!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is not due anything more from them, except the next 50% wage increase that is in his contract due to come into play at the start of the next year of his contract. Why is this hard to understand? They are asking him to more than half his wages days after more than doubling what he was on. No promises of anything.

He could put the player on for 1 minute and fine him for poor performance if he wanted, nothing in the game stops you doing that. So again, has your fancy number play taking this into consideration, how well does the player stand to do if he only gets paid every second week?

He's past the pinnacle of his career - he's going for his final pay day.

I would milk the club for they have if they treat me badly.

The promises have already come into play he has the improved contract they promised him, he has the huge wage increase already,!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is not due anything more from them, except the next 50% wage increase that is in his contract due to come into play at the start of the next year of his contract. Why is this hard to understand? They are asking him to more than half his wages days after more than doubling what he was on. No promises of anything.

Even better then - they are just asking him to cut his wages, from "astronomically stupid" to just "stupid". If I were Uche, whether I accept or not simply comes down to how long my current contract lasts. Leaving is only an option if they are going to compensate me substantially for it.

He could put the player on for 1 minute and fine him for poor performance if he wanted, nothing in the game stops you doing that. So again, has your fancy number play taking this into consideration, how well does the player stand to do if he only gets paid every second week?

Then that's a bug.

A club that tries this in reality will get taken to court by the player, and I suspect they will win.

Now you're bringing your personality into the game & transposing it to the player, as I've said a sample of 1 is next to worthless as there could be any number of reasons behind the decision to push for a vastly improved deal when the manager started to discuss new terms, this is a key point as the player did not initiate the contract talks.

Surely it's the other way round? If Uche initiates contract talks, it is because he is unhappy with his current contract... Clearly, Uche is happy earning stupid amounts of money, so he will never initiate talks...

And milnerpoint asked me for my opinion.

Yes your right its perfectly acceptable to expect someone to more than half their wages weeks after you have doubled them because of their performance. I mean anyone who would expect to get paid what you have offered is clearly crazy, and should be happy with the saucer of milk you offer instead, after all a saucer of milk is better than nothing at all.

Surely it's the other way round? If Uche initiates contract talks, it is because he is unhappy with his current contract... Clearly, Uche is happy earning stupid amounts of money, so he will never initiate talks...

And milnerpoint asked me for my opinion.

What happened after the contract was rejected is a separate issues as we do not know how long it took the OP to get Uche to agree to a contract termination, how much of his contract had to be paid in compensation or how long it took him to find a new club.

Its sort of a similar problem I had, I have old players on the verge of retirement (32-36 aged) Zlatan Imbromovich (spelling) for AC Milan, he is 33 and on 250k a week (last 6 months of his contract), he had played mainly as a backup/sub, his status reflected this and I tried to offer him a new contract to:

1 - Keep him at the club till he retired. He was good to have around and a club legend.

2 - He was still quite prolific in terms of goals per game.

3 - Was the best I had as backup and did still play a role when Neymar got injured/suspended

We entered negotiations and guess what? He wanted 275k a week! I offered him 100k a week for 2 years (maximum I could offer as a first team player, even though he is squad rotation/backup material) and he refused. He then signed for Fulham for 22k a week for 1 year!!

So from 250k to 100k for 2 years is not enough for him, but 22k for 1 year is???

Yes your right its perfectly acceptable to expect someone to more than half their wages weeks after you have doubled them because of their performance. I mean anyone who would expect to get paid what you have offered is clearly crazy, and should be happy with the saucer of milk you offer instead, after all a saucer of milk is better than nothing at all.

That's not the right comparison. The player doesn't have "nothing". The player has a whole tanker of milk and is being asked to take a bottle instead. The alternative is a saucer of milk (with another club).

The player is getting paid a stupid amount of money, and is being asked to either take a less stupid amount of money or find a job that pays a sensible amount of money.

I would be slightly upset if they tried to halve my wages the day after they double, but then again it would simply boil down to whether it's financially worth it to accept. For example, if they are offering €1,500 for 4 years, I might accept because there is no way I will be earning €1,500 elsewhere in 4 years time - trading money today for more money tomorrow. If it's just a straight downgrade, I'll stick with my €2,600 and do a Bogarde, or take a substantial mutual termination and bugger off elsewhere. Leaving for another club for rubbish wages is arguably outclassed by both other options depending on contract length.

We'll agree that Uche is happy with his current terms, why should he now accept the less favourable terms being offered to him? Remember the OP does not mention contract length but if the offer of €1500 pw included an one year extension to the expiry date the contract it has less value because it will take him twice as long to earn the same amount.

I never said he should simply accept. It would depend on the financial terms. Uche has the option of doing a Bogarde, after all, if he doesn't like the terms.

What happened after the contract was rejected is a separate issues as we do not know how long it took the OP to get Uche to agree to a contract termination, how much of his contract had to be paid in compensation or how long it took him to find a new club.

This is true, but that's a risk that should be factored into Uche's thinking and therefore into his contract terms.

Its sort of a similar problem I had, I have old players on the verge of retirement (32-36 aged) Zlatan Imbromovich (spelling) for AC Milan, he is 33 and on 250k a week (last 6 months of his contract), he had played mainly as a backup/sub, his status reflected this and I tried to offer him a new contract to:

1 - Keep him at the club till he retired. He was good to have around and a club legend.

2 - He was still quite prolific in terms of goals per game.

3 - Was the best I had as backup and did still play a role when Neymar got injured/suspended

We entered negotiations and guess what? He wanted 275k a week! I offered him 100k a week for 2 years (maximum I could offer as a first team player, even though he is squad rotation/backup material) and he refused. He then signed for Fulham for 22k a week for 1 year!!

So from 250k to 100k for 2 years is not enough for him, but 22k for 1 year is???

This is the sort of scenario that needs to be posted in the bugs forum, unless of course he's been offered star billing at Fulham which for someone with an ego the size of Manhatten is probably worth more than the money, which he already has plenty off.

Not sure if teh game works like that though, if you have before & after save files let the SI team have copies to look at.

This is the sort of scenario that needs to be posted in the bugs forum, unless of course he's been offered star billing at Fulham which for someone with an ego the size of Manhatten is probably worth more than the money, which he already has plenty off.

Not sure if teh game works like that though, if you have before & after save files let the SI team have copies to look at.

All the bugs ive experienced have been reported already or I have raised them with the team. Usually someone gets there before me anyways lol

I usually just get the default/scripted response from SI of "I see no problem"

The above is annoying and frustrating and maybe not a bug as such, but something within the game coded to state to increase wages (ignoring terms of age) but if some is unemployed, its resets and hence why they go for lower wages. I dunno, not a huge game changer, just having to rework and rejiggle things around.

Im not sure every player in FM is coded to work out his long term financial plan so he can calculate exactly what he has made, is likely to make, and what he will need to retire on. Maybe in a few years time when they have created Skylab this will happen, but right now sadly i dont think its quite made it to the top of the priorities list.

I'm sure you would be delighted to get a double your money pay increase, only for your boss to try and take it away a few days later, and demand you get take less than what you were on before. I take it im correct with that yes?

Getting your science fact & fiction mixed up there.

Skylab - NASA space station

Skynet - Fictional super computer

hahahahaha pwnd!!!!

Im not sure every player in FM is coded to work out his long term financial plan so he can calculate exactly what he has made, is likely to make, and what he will need to retire on. Maybe in a few years time when they have created Skylab this will happen, but right now sadly i dont think its quite made it to the top of the priorities list.

As per usual, more hyperbole. You just need Excel. Or a pen, paper and calculator. Or if you have an agent, they just need a brain.

If players (and their agents) are unable to make sensible financial decisions, that's a bug too.

I'm sure you would be delighted to get a double your money pay increase, only for your boss to try and take it away a few days later, and demand you get take less than what you were on before. I take it im correct with that yes?

I wouldn't be delighted. I don't know where you got that idea from.

Because you haven't read my above posts: I might accept depending on how the contract is structured. If my current contract doesn't have long to go, but this new one is a long-term contract, and financially it makes sense, then I will accept. If the new contract doesn't make financial sense, I will do a Bogarde. If I feel I can get a decent termination fee and find a decent contract elsewhere to make up for it, I will consider that, but since I am old (Uche will be 30 in the second season), I am unlikely to find myself in that position since I have no sell-on value - hence it would take a huge compensation fee.

It's not clear-cut, but it is clear that moving on is the last resort given the fact that I can always do a Bogarde and keep my €2,600/week salary until my contract expires. That is always going to be tempting, given I was overpaid on €1,500/week.

What the game really needs is for players to be able to spend their wages on things like cars and houses, then they will have to programme each player to be a financial expert, or even better, they can hire accountants that would also be coded into the game, each on having his own attributes like "willingness to shaft players/clubs" "ability to see into the future", you know the important things. Forget about this football nonsense lets focus on the important things.

What the game really needs is for players to be able to spend their wages on things like cars and houses, then they will have to programme each player to be a financial expert, or even better, they can hire accountants that would also be coded into the game, each on having his own attributes like "willingness to shaft players/clubs" "ability to see into the future", you know the important things. Forget about this football nonsense lets focus on the important things.

Ah yes, let's flood the thread with strawmen arguments and slippery slopes...

You don't need an accountant to add and multiply numbers.

As OP I had some questions raised, which I'd answer.

The % wage increase is promotional not yearly.

He signed approximately 1-2 months after I fired him.

I didn't fine him for 2 weeks continously (although if he didn't accept I would have).

He had 1 year left of his contract, but accepted a termination fee of €2,000k, so wasn't that much.

He negotiated through an agent, however I don't know if he still has him or negotiated without him to the new club.

I guess I answered them all!

Good arguements pro and con. However 'milnerpoint' you are suggesting that the player is not accepted due to 'ego'. Which implies that emotions of this nature are coded in the game.

The fact is that he has a contract running out and I need to extend his contract. I'd be willing to give him €2,000/wk even, but he wants more than he already has and he is the highest earner. Also players of his calibre (and younger) can be signed for much less. If there is infact 'rational thinking' in the game then he would know he is dispensable and will be sent away. Which for fear of loosing his cash cow, he would accept (above the bottom league average and he knows it). Thats also an emotion that he needs to 'think' about if there is in fact an emotion. If there isn't then he should rationaly accept his new wage as it is still above his level.

Did you explicitly offer him a new €1,500/week contract? What were the other terms (length of contract, signing bonus, etc.)?

He was on €2,6k requesting €4k (€3k after speaking to him), I would have gone down to ~€2k (absolute maximum).

Lenght of contract was 2 years deal (I tried 3 but he decreased it and I said fine in an attempt to appease). The signing bonus was what he requested, I didn't up it (can't recall the amount but I didn't decrease it). I'm in a poor financial situation as I'm not sure I can stay up, so finances are crucial at this stage.

One thing none of you have picked up on yet is the OP saying he was constantly fining the player for no reason to force him out. x42 mentioned it being removed from the game, but IRL there is a small matter of the PFA that wouldnt allow a club to fine a player constantly for absolutely no reason at all. Not to mention all the legal implications of an Employer unfairly tergetting an Employee. Being forced out/constructive dismissal, call it what you will, it would never happen. You could even cite the recent Carlos Tevez case where the PFA stepped in because Man City wanted to fine the player over the odds.

Thanks. I think there is a bug here, not least the low mutual termination fee. €2,000/week over 2 years makes more sense than €2,600/week for one year. I would expect mutual termination to be closer to €100,000 ((€2,600 - €545) * 52 = €106,860) than €0. I agree Uche should have seen the writing on the wall and should have been happy with something like €1,500 for 3 years with a moderate signing bonus (it's interesting that he rejected 3 years - any old player who can tie himself down to a long-term deal should take it, because wages only get lower as time goes on - another bug perhaps).

One thing none of you have picked up on yet is the OP saying he was constantly fining the player for no reason to force him out. x42 mentioned it being removed from the game, but IRL there is a small matter of the PFA that wouldnt allow a club to fine a player constantly for absolutely no reason at all. Not to mention all the legal implications of an Employer unfairly tergetting an Employee. Being forced out/constructive dismissal, call it what you will, it would never happen. You could even cite the recent Carlos Tevez case where the PFA stepped in because Man City wanted to fine the player over the odds.

The PFA act as an advocate... They would side with a player accused of committing a crime, for example: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/nov/01/marlon-king-pfa-gordon-taylor

He did mention there were no constant fines, but in reality, if that happened, it would go to court and the club would have a lot of explaining to do.

@BobDBuilder: Fined him once, albeit your points stands as I would have fined him further if he wouldn't have accepted mutual termination.

@x42bn6: That amount would be termination of contract, no? Mutual termination is basically 'free'. The bottom option when you click on it, I was even surprised to see a fee.