Mental Attributes

How much do they matter, or impact on a players performance?

When I see a players profile, I naturally look at his technical, and then his physical, atts. Scouts are pretty ambiguous on the matter, they might say he's not very determined or a bit lazy, but they don't tell me if this is something that should prevent me signing him. So, does anyone have any ideas?

Mental attributes are even with physical and technical attributes in terms of importance, except for in the lower leagues physical attributes are most important. Mental attributes are basically the player's approach to the game, and how his brain works in terms of attitude, introvert/extrovert and others. A player may be technically strong: he knows he to do the moves, but he might not know when to do them: based on his mental skills.

As a basis, a determined player will try and get the win even when losing and won't just give up. He'll also apply himself harder in training and be a fine role model to tutor young players. A lazy player is basically the opposite: the extreme version being missing training to watch TV and eat pizza.

The scouts will include mental attributes in their overall review, i.e. when they tell you that he is a "decent player" or you must sign him, etc. It isn't strictly neccesary to reject players with a determination below x, but then a more determined team generally makes for a better team.

There are a vast range of mental attributes so if you explain any other particular ones you are having trouble understanding, just say so and I or one of the other forum-members can elaborate as to how that attribute transfers onto the training field and onto the pitch.

Thanks a lot!

Originally posted by canvey!!:

except for in the lower leagues physical attributes are most important.

This is incorrect. Don't have time to explain why right now, but will do later when I get home. Had to post in the topic so it stays black on the list

Originally posted by NepentheZ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by canvey!!:

except for in the lower leagues physical attributes are most important.

This is incorrect. Don't have time to explain why right now, but will do later when I get home. Had to post in the topic so it stays black on the list </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This might have been fair comment for FM05 or before, but SI have developed the balance of attributes a lot - mental attributes a crucial at all levels; hopefully NepentheZ will go into details since I'm too lazy!

Canvey!! - Thanks for bringing my attention back to this, it completely slipped my mind but is something I felt quite strongly on.

Heres how it is. I play as Real London (Formerly AFC Wimbledon) - and was stuck in the Blue Square Premier for no less than 5 seasons. For me, in previous versions of FM, was stupid. I never really spent more than 2-3 seasons in a particular division lower than the Championship. I spend a lot of time in the tactics forum, learning techniques and formalities of tactics, and I execute tactics quite well. So the fact that my team, (which was much, much better than my other competitors in the league in terms of attributes) spent 5 years in the league, Struggling to string runs of results together, I noticed something very odd.

The top players in all of the categories in the lower leagues, were all in the advancing years. (ranging from 28 - 35). This includes Goals, Assists, Average Rating, Tackles per game and all the rest.

Now the reason I found this as odd, is because the players didn't have spectacular technical attributes. And due to the advancing years of the players, Physical attributes were low, but Mental attributes were very, very profitable.

I looked at this closely in the year 2013/2014 - In which I finished 18th in the BSP.

I signed a bunch of "older players" who were signed based purely on Mental attributes, and largely played the same, or a similar tactic, with minor changes due to player differences. The results were astounding.

Blue Square Premier

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

Pre "Old Age"

2013/14 | Blue Square Premier | 18th | 53 points

Post "old age"

2014/15 | Blue Square Premier | 7th | 75 points</pre>

So the difference is 18 points. Its possible its not solely down to the OAP's, but they had a clear and massive influence.

Heres why.

Key Attributes in Mental Sector -

Striker | Composure, Concentration, Off The Ball, Positioning.

5 attributes there, that could be considered "key" in a strikers goals to games ratio. When I have a young player with 16 Finishing, but 5 Composure, 8 Concentration, 20 pace, 20 acceleration, I honestly expect him to score due to the fact that, lots of shots = goals. But my young guns with, GREAT technical attributes, were really falling by the wayside. I then signed the following...

Barry Corr (31 years) ST

Season 1 - 4 Goals in 6 Games.

Season 2 - 8 goals in 10 games.

Hameur Bouazza (31 years) AM L

Season 1 - 7 Goals, 2 Assists in 14(1) Games.

Season 2 - 11 Goals, 5 Assists in 9(13) Games.

And there were a few other older forwards that I rotated a LOT to keep fit. That, for me was a great return from those kind of players.

When in the same season, my "young" forwards were doing....

John Campbell (21 years) ST (Now trained to AML)

Season 1 - 9 Goals, 6 Assists in 38(2) Games

Season 2 - 28 Goals, 14 Assists in 37(4) Games (But amazingly, from the AML Position )

And a few random young players, who played around 10-15 games each, getting between 3 and 8 goals.

Again, I know its not concrete evidence, but I can clearly notice a masssssssive change in the way my team plays with the extra mental attributes. I signed 2 30 something Centerbacks, and 1 24 year old who had amazing stats, and they're still in my squad. (although mostly for back up now).

Ever since, I've focused highly on mental attributes when signing players, and any young player I find (as in 18 and under) - with relatively good mental attributes, I snap up instantly. Most notable was John Shakespeare. A 16 year old Regen, with Mental attributes as follows.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

Agg - 4

Ant - 10

Bra - 5

Com - 10

Con - 4

Cre - 18

Dec - 12

Det - 10

Fla - 14

Inf - 4

Off - 7

Pos - 7

Tea - 12

Wrk - 13</pre>

Now, for a 16 year old kid, those attributes, in my opinion were phenominal. A kid who also had quite good technical attributes, but quite poor physical attributes. I put him on a special training program to try and make him fitter, and quicker, and now at 18 his 3 seasons at the club have looked as follows...

John Shakespeare - AMC / F (Originally AMC, Trained as ST)

App Gls Ass MoM Av. R

Season 1 - 14 6 4 1 6.71 (16 years old)

Season 2 - 3 2 0 0 6.67 (17 years old - 6 months out injured)

Season 3 - (8) 5 4 2 7.54 (18 years old)

He's had a fair bit of football, and has impressed me. His pass % is around 78% each season, (give or take 5% per season) and he fits in well in the AMC Role. He scored 2 goals and 1 assist on his debut, bagging MotM - and he has real, real potential.

So to sum up, I see a very clear distinction in playing older players, over the younger ones, and have seen massive rewards for it. I've not been able to test this in the higher divisions, but certainly in Div 2. and lower in the English tiers, it has paid dividends.

Just a little note, I only spent 2 seasons in Div. 2 after 5 in the BSP, largely due to the older players influence in my squad.

Originally posted by NepentheZ:

Canvey!! - Thanks for bringing my attention back to this, it completely slipped my mind but is something I felt quite strongly on.

Heres how it is. I play as Real London (Formerly AFC Wimbledon) - and was stuck in the Blue Square Premier for no less than 5 seasons. For me, in previous versions of FM, was stupid. I never really spent more than 2-3 seasons in a particular division lower than the Championship. I spend a lot of time in the tactics forum, learning techniques and formalities of tactics, and I execute tactics quite well. So the fact that my team, (which was much, much better than my other competitors in the league in terms of attributes) spent 5 years in the league, Struggling to string runs of results together, I noticed something very odd.

The top players in all of the categories in the lower leagues, were all in the advancing years. (ranging from 28 - 35). This includes Goals, Assists, Average Rating, Tackles per game and all the rest.

Now the reason I found this as odd, is because the players didn't have spectacular technical attributes. And due to the advancing years of the players, Physical attributes were low, but Mental attributes were very, very profitable.

I looked at this closely in the year 2013/2014 - In which I finished 18th in the BSP.

I signed a bunch of "older players" who were signed based purely on Mental attributes, and largely played the same, or a similar tactic, with minor changes due to player differences. The results were astounding.

Blue Square Premier

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

Pre "Old Age"

2013/14 | Blue Square Premier | 18th | 53 points

Post "old age"

2014/15 | Blue Square Premier | 7th | 75 points</pre>

So the difference is 18 points. Its possible its not solely down to the OAP's, but they had a clear and massive influence.

Heres why.

Key Attributes in Mental Sector -

Striker | Composure, Concentration, Off The Ball, Positioning.

5 attributes there, that could be considered "key" in a strikers goals to games ratio.

Positioning is nothing to do with strikers. At all. It's purely defensive. Off the ball is "positioning for strikers/wingers/attacking midfielders".

Originally posted by SCIAG:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

Canvey!! - Thanks for bringing my attention back to this, it completely slipped my mind but is something I felt quite strongly on.

Heres how it is. I play as Real London (Formerly AFC Wimbledon) - and was stuck in the Blue Square Premier for no less than 5 seasons. For me, in previous versions of FM, was stupid. I never really spent more than 2-3 seasons in a particular division lower than the Championship. I spend a lot of time in the tactics forum, learning techniques and formalities of tactics, and I execute tactics quite well. So the fact that my team, (which was much, much better than my other competitors in the league in terms of attributes) spent 5 years in the league, Struggling to string runs of results together, I noticed something very odd.

The top players in all of the categories in the lower leagues, were all in the advancing years. (ranging from 28 - 35). This includes Goals, Assists, Average Rating, Tackles per game and all the rest.

Now the reason I found this as odd, is because the players didn't have spectacular technical attributes. And due to the advancing years of the players, Physical attributes were low, but Mental attributes were very, very profitable.

I looked at this closely in the year 2013/2014 - In which I finished 18th in the BSP.

I signed a bunch of "older players" who were signed based purely on Mental attributes, and largely played the same, or a similar tactic, with minor changes due to player differences. The results were astounding.

Blue Square Premier

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

Pre "Old Age"

2013/14 | Blue Square Premier | 18th | 53 points

Post "old age"

2014/15 | Blue Square Premier | 7th | 75 points</pre>

So the difference is 18 points. Its possible its not solely down to the OAP's, but they had a clear and massive influence.

Heres why.

Key Attributes in Mental Sector -

Striker | Composure, Concentration, Off The Ball, Positioning.

5 attributes there, that could be considered "key" in a strikers goals to games ratio.

Positioning is nothing to do with strikers. At all. It's purely defensive. Off the ball is "positioning for strikers/wingers/attacking midfielders". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And where exactly is this stated?

The Norwich data issues thread, which seems to have been deleted.

Sheer Class (the Pompey researcher) said it was.

Originally posted by SCIAG:

The Norwich data issues thread, which seems to have been deleted.

Sheer Class (the Pompey researcher) said it was.

Regardless, I would find it very difficult to believe it has nothing to do with Strikers.

It's useful for strikers if you want them to drop back into good defensive positions to win the ball. I'd think Work Rate, Anticipation and Decisions were more useful mental stats for strikers though.

It's useful for defending corners etc. but not for scoring or improving goals to games ratio.

Originally posted by NepentheZ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SCIAG:

The Norwich data issues thread, which seems to have been deleted.

Sheer Class (the Pompey researcher) said it was.

Regardless, I would find it very difficult to believe it has nothing to do with Strikers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is an attribute that is for in the main defenders and goal keepers, off the ball is the attacking version of this in a way.