Disaster!

Help me figure this out.

My team who've been playing excellent football are on the wrong side of a 5-0 scoreline away from home against opposition I should really beat. My worst ever defeat on the FM series. I didn't even get thumped that bad playing against Villa as a league 2 side!

Morale was a mix between Superb and Very Good ahead of the match.

Player conditions 99% lowest all match fit.

Weather perfect.

Pitch size is nothing I'm not accustomed to.

Tactically perfect I assure you. I managed to bring this team up from League 2 to CCC in 2 years using nothing but free transfers. I'm sitting pretty in top spot in the CCC right now. Only succumbing to defeats after I had a small striker injury crisis and post cup matches.

My entire team ratings dropped to 5.5 at 2-0 17 minutes in!

Everyone was getting everything wrong. Passes were off, movement was moronic, wingers couldn't take on a single defender, and when we did get a half chance the finishing was dire.

I can't explain this. Just a total shock result against all odds (realistic ones at least not in game) against a team occupying 7th place.

Hold on looking at team talk feedback my assistant says that 4 of my players seemed demotivated, looked delighted (I'm assuming that means happy that they can win without putting in the effort?) to my "you can win tonight" (I thought this meant you can win if you give it your all). Odds and pre-match said we'd lose but they weren't against us by much (hence the you can win). I used this against the newly demoted sides (2nd and 3rd in the league) and I still managed to beat them away from home.

Help me figure this out.

My team who've been playing excellent football are on the wrong side of a 5-0 scoreline away from home against opposition I should really beat. My worst ever defeat on the FM series. I didn't even get thumped that bad playing against Villa as a league 2 side!

Morale was a mix between Superb and Very Good ahead of the match.

Player conditions 99% lowest all match fit.

Weather perfect.

Pitch size is nothing I'm not accustomed to.

Tactically perfect I assure you. I managed to bring this team up from League 2 to CCC in 2 years using nothing but free transfers. I'm sitting pretty in top spot in the CCC right now. Only succumbing to defeats after I had a small striker injury crisis and post cup matches.

My entire team ratings dropped to 5.5 at 2-0 17 minutes in!

Everyone was getting everything wrong. Passes were off, movement was moronic, wingers couldn't take on a single defender, and when we did get a half chance the finishing was dire.

I can't explain this. Just a total shock result against all odds (realistic ones at least not in game) against a team occupying 7th place.

Hold on looking at team talk feedback my assistant says that 4 of my players seemed demotivated, looked delighted (I'm assuming that means happy that they can win without putting in the effort?) to my "you can win tonight" (I thought this meant you can win if you give it your all). Odds and pre-match said we'd lose but they weren't against us by much (hence the you can win). I used this against the newly demoted sides (2nd and 3rd in the league) and I still managed to beat them away from home.

Just like real life : Middlesbrough got hammered 5-0 at home to WBA yesterday.

Just like real life : Middlesbrough got hammered 5-0 at home to WBA yesterday.

Yeah thank you for clearing that up, but this wasn't a criticism.

I was hoping someone can help me figure out why this happened.

Difficult without seeing the game and understanding your team.

Some things to consider though:

Pre-match team talk.

Half time team talk.

Unlucky to go two down so quickly?

Team didn't react well to going behind.

Where the match stats heavily against you?

You didn't change tactic when it wasn't working.

Pre-match team talk.

My Ass Man says that 4 players seemed demotivated, looks delighted. I can't really tell what that means, mainly because it seems a bit contradictory to the team talk I chose.

I'm pretty sure "you can win" means you can win if you give it your all, but it seems that the players thought they would coast through. Particularly my defenders.

Half time team talk.

I probably should've went for angry but I said disappointed because the odds were slightly against us.

Unlucky to go two down so quickly?

Team didn't react well to going behind.

Where the match stats heavily against you?

They've had a lot of shots from distance 5 goals (5 on target). 5 CCC. Depressing.

Possession was 60% in my favour I had 3 CCC. More shots on target (all right at the GK).

Passing was 70% while they had 61%

Their tackling is at 97% which is pretty amazing.

You didn't change tactic when it wasn't working.

I'm 100% certain it wasn't the tactics. I'm good with this aspect of the game and the one I used is the best for the type of opposition and pitch. I'm comparing them to the other teams in my division of course. My team simply weren't playing like they usually do. I'm thinking it could've either been a very bad day for most of my players or team talks.

Could the "seemed demotivated, looks delighted" to a couple of my defenders lead to this heavy thrashing?

If yes (most likely is), I was slight under dogs despite being top of the league, so I chose you can win. I am under the impression that team talks should be based on the odds because of what I keep on reading on this forum. Should I have said I expect to win?

Team Talks are the only part of this game I don't get 100%.

Yeah thank you for clearing that up, but this wasn't a criticism.

I was hoping someone can help me figure out why this happened.

My comment wasn't a criticism of your post, either.

My point was : it's football : smelly stufff happens every now and again, if it didn't then there woulldn't be any point following it.

My comment wasn't a criticism of your post, either.

My point was : it's football : smelly stufff happens every now and again, if it didn't then there woulldn't be any point following it.

Fair enough.

See I totally agree if it was RL but I don't think things like that happen in game. Maybe it would with 1-2 nil win but not a 5-0 thrashing. There has to be an underlying reason and I'm hoping to learn from this experience.

My Ass Man says that 4 players seemed demotivated, looks delighted. I can't really tell what that means, mainly because it seems a bit contradictory to the team talk I chose.

Not at all contradictory. Looks like they think the game is in the bag already and are happily thinking about next match/something else. It means they were complacent.

And this might be the problem ...

Not at all contradictory. Looks like they think the game is in the bag already and are happily thinking about next match/something else. It means they were complacent.

And this might be the problem ...

So you can win doesn't mean that you can win if you give it your all?

Help me figure this out.

Hold on looking at team talk feedback my assistant says that 4 of my players seemed demotivated, looked delighted (I'm assuming that means happy that they can win without putting in the effort?) to my "you can win tonight" (I thought this meant you can win if you give it your all). Odds and pre-match said we'd lose but they weren't against us by much (hence the you can win). I used this against the newly demoted sides (2nd and 3rd in the league) and I still managed to beat them away from home.

This is probably it. That feedback from the AM means they will likely be "playing complacently" during the match which if you were a slight underdog, can turn into a disaster, particularly if one was the keeper or other key defender, and even moreso if the other side is "looking motivated" or "fired up."

Also, if you keep using the same talks in the same pattern, they can have less of an effect or no effect, so you should mix it up a little bit.

So you can win doesn't mean that you can win if you give it your all?

You would think that, right, but I believe it's rather: "you can win this without a big performance".

Team talks are sometimes difficult and you need to mix them up to have a constant effect, saying the same thing all the time doesn't work as Grug has pointed out.

Taking a step back though did you have a press conference? what was the reaction to that?

Team talks - Good luck may have been the better option, especially if odds are against you and you have a determined side. Have the four players that were demotivated similar personalities?

Onto this comment:

I'm 100% certain it wasn't the tactics.

No tactics are 100% effective and you gave up 5 cccs!

You have to gauge was this because:

Players weren't motivated enough, individuals made errors, specific opposition players were just better or were the opposition tactics better. Maybe a mix of several things.

Personally from 2-0 to 5-0 there isn't a whole lot of difference.

The first goal is important but its not the end of the game, if you go 2-0 down its very unlikely you'll win but you could still get a point. At 3-0 its virtually game over and other goals don't really make much difference.

To get back from 2-0/3-0 you need to have extremely determined, professional players who don't give up.

My Ass Man says that 4 players seemed demotivated, looks delighted. I can't really tell what that means, mainly because it seems a bit contradictory to the team talk I chose.

There is your reason, right there.

Having this for just one player can cause major problems. Having it for four normally results in a very difficult half from which it is almost impossible to return. Often by telling the side you're disappointed or angry, you can just make it worse. With the very top sides who are very determined or resolute, you may have a chance.

I've very rarely come back from a 'seemed demotivated' situation and I don't think I have ever actually managed to win a game after it.

'You can win' can actually be a very difficult team talk on FM09. I've no idea what the true meaning of it is and I have found team talks very frustrating on this version because very few of them seem to do what they actually say they do!

Check WWFan's excellent 'translation' of the team talks on the tactics forum is my only real advice.

Regards,

C.

First of all thanks for all the reply guys.

Now Cougar, the tactics I chose are the perfect set. I used it against similar teams (similar STs, Wingers, CMs.) My two centre backs were all over the place.

They kept on splitting my defence because my two centre backs were practically sitting in my full backs laps. They kept being dragged out of position for whatever reason (no OI). It's weird their movement was horrible not like it was for the past 34 matches. I thought of subbing one of them after the second goal but thought my team have crawled back on several occasions they'll do it again, but then everything fell apart. The whole team just went missing.

I agree with you C., the team talks are a bit vague. I actually use you can win on a regular basis (mostly when I'm away from home), and it's worked fine up until this point. I think my team, who were the league leaders, needed to hear that I expected them to win. Then again they might have felt demotivated because I place too much pressure on them.

The new coach section should help us deal with team talks (in theory) so it's something to look forward to.