Help tweaking a tactic

[tigerking]

I've got a tactic that's been working splendidly in the league and the champions league. About 75% of my games use this.

 

However, my other tactic, the one that's been nice for me in the past, is a 4-3-3. In the last season-and-a-half, it's not worked well. This is the one I'd like help with. Against good teams, it produces a lot of 0-0 or 1-1 ties, or narrow wins off the counter. Against bad teams, it produces a lot of 0-0 or 1-1 ties. My biggest problem is that I really struggle to create chances and score with this tactic. There's games where I dominate possession and shots, but don't create a ton of chances. I'm playing as RB Leipzig and one of the better teams in the Bundesliga (generally top 2), so most of my games I'm favored in, though Bundesliga teams play pretty aggressively in general.

Things I've experimented with a lot:

• Mentality. For the 4-2-4, I've found Balanced by far the best. In this one, Cautious seems good against the good teams, though I haven't found a pattern that works well vs the bad teams. Cranking to the mentality sometimes helps and sometimes makes it worse.
• Pass Into Space. I've found it better to turn this on against better teams, but I can't tell if it's good against worse teams.
• The DM role. It's always DM-D, BWM-D, or DLP-D; BWM-D seems to look the best, but Tyler Adams has grown in my game to be not only an amazing ball winner but also have pretty good passing and vision. Feels wrong to tell him not to use that, so I switched him to DM-D. DLP-D in same games I'm dominating seems okay especially if I turn down the tempo, but it seems like the tactic is less cohesive even though the DLP gets good ratings.
• The MCL role. I've tried CM-A, MEZ, and AP. AP feels awful in this (it's the one constant, every year), and I've got great players for that role; I think AP just works horribly with very high tempo? Mez sometimes creates some nice overloads, but then it feels like we're missing a guy centrally, so I've found just a simple CM-A (often with more aggressive passing) works best.
• Work ball into box. This tactic always looks worse when I turn it off. (Unlike my 1st tactic, which usually looks better with it off).

Things I've experimented with a bit:

• The FB roles. WB-S seems better than the FB roles I've tried. WB-A seems to help, but not on both sides. CWB seems sort of suicidal without a back 3.
• Tempo. I like setting this to max, 1) because Leipzig play like this in real life and I like sticking to IRL tactics when I can, and 2) because a lot of players on the team have the Plays 1-2s trait. But I've found sometimes the 4-3-3 works better on one tick lower than max tempo.
• Team Width and passing. Slightly better performance with shorter passing and narrower. Narrower definitely seems more helpful on wider fields. When I'm winning but struggling to score, wider seems slightly better, though sometimes we just give away the ball a ton.
• The formation. People meme 4-2-3-1 (2CM, 1AM) but I haven't got it to work at all. I have great players for a 4-2-3-1 (2DM, 1 AM) but I could not get it to work at all (I was mostly trying BWM-SV and an AM-S). I've also tried a 3-4-3 (drop the DM to CB and move the FBs to WB strata), but the pressing felt awkward.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions how I can make the 4-3-3 a little more aggressive to stop dropping points vs lower teams?

Edited September 27, 2020 by tigerking

[summatsupeer]

1 hour ago, tigerking said:

Does anyone have any suggestions how I can make the 4-3-3 a little more aggressive to stop dropping points vs lower teams?

I'd say its too aggressive.  The 424 is top heavy, lots of players in position to press but then you have varied movement up front from the Support+Attack combination.  You've then tried to keep that high pressing approach, but dropped a ST all the way down to DM and relying more on vertical movement with no one really making space.  If teams give you space by trying to attack you then those vertical runs can have success, if they're more defensive your not really doing anything to create space.

In a high tempo system i'd want playing making runs more often from deep and/or more varied movement from the front 5.  For example rather than losing the F9 from your 424 and keeping the high runner, what if you keep a support duty forward and add that CM-At deep runner to MCR?  The DR could also overlap to help create space inside.  The DM could be a support duty, just consider the role so doesn't go wandering too far. He can then also step up to help the press rather than sitting and covering an area that likely isn't exploited that much by defensive sides.  Depending what you do with the roles+duties would affect what TI changes i'd make.

[tigerking]

Quote

For example rather than losing the F9 from your 424 and keeping the high runner, what if you keep a support duty forward and add that CM-At deep runner to MCR? 

Hmm, this is a good idea, though my RWs and CM-As are more creators than goal scorers. My best finishers are my LW and my ST. Still, I might play around with switching it to F9 or PF-S. What do you mean add the CM-A runner to MCR? Do you mean make both my CMs CM-A, or just swap the two CMs?

 

8 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

The DM could be a support duty,

Good point, I'll give it a go. BWM-S seems to roam more than I'd like, but DM-S seems like it could help here.

[summatsupeer]

56 minutes ago, tigerking said:

Hmm, this is a good idea, though my RWs and CM-As are more creators than goal scorers. My best finishers are my LW and my ST. Still, I might play around with switching it to F9 or PF-S. What do you mean add the CM-A runner to MCR? Do you mean make both my CMs CM-A, or just swap the two CMs?

Good point, I'll give it a go. BWM-S seems to roam more than I'd like, but DM-S seems like it could help here.

The best finishers don't have to be attack duties, duties really affect how the chances are created.  Attack duties mean being more focused on forward runs which requires earlier through balls and space to run into.  Support duties can still be a main scorer, but they'll tend to arrive later into scoring positions or make runs from deep, it depends whats going on around him though.

I would try that creative player in MCR, could start with CM-At but might be worth trying some other roles and/or duties.  He can combine with the other creative player in AMR and if playing a fast style, i'd look to make an overload and/or switch of play rather than just having supportive DL/R which is more possession based.

[tigerking]

Would a Mezzala fit in better on the same side as an IF or an IW?

[Experienced Defender]

13 hours ago, tigerking said:

I've got a tactic that's been working splendidly in the league and the champions league

 

13 hours ago, tigerking said:

However, my other tactic, the one that's been nice for me in the past, is a 4-3-3. In the last season-and-a-half, it's not worked well.

If so, why don't you simply discard the non-working 433 and stick solely to the one that's "been working splendidly"? Can't be simpler than that, can it?

[tigerking]

Good question. That's mostly what I'm doing, but 3 reasons why I don't want to completely give up on the other one:

1. The tactic that's been working well has had some success against top teams (Dortmund/Bayern), but is better against the weaker teams. As I'm getting deeper into a Champions League run, there's more good teams coming up on the schedule.
2. The main tactic is working well but it's obviously not perfect. Sometimes it's nice to have another tactical option to fall back on.
3. I have more midfield depth right now than striker depth, and have a pretty congested fixture list for the rest of the season.

[summatsupeer]

1 hour ago, tigerking said:

Would a Mezzala fit in better on the same side as an IF or an IW?

Not that simple, you need to look at all the combinations that player will have and why you have him doing that.  In a 433 (4141 DM Wide) there's very few times I like a MEZ since he typically moves into the areas those wide forwards use, with a FB also on the flank that can be very wing heavy.  If I have a W-Su then a MEZ-At can overload that flank but the rest of the players needs to be setup to exploit that.