442DM trouble

[Tryllefot]

Hello, I'm having trouble breaking down 442 formations where they use 2 DM as in the attached screenshot. My current tactic is the other one.

Should I have LOE, and or lower DL, or should I try and push them through their own net?

Help is greatly appreciated.

[rockpie]

13 minutes ago, Tryllefot said:

Hello, I'm having trouble breaking down 442 formations where they use 2 DM as in the attached screenshot. My current tactic is the other one.

Should I have LOE, and or lower DL, or should I try and push them through their own net?

Help is greatly appreciated.

Check the opposition manager profile to see what his preferred style is.

Any kind of Direct / Route One / Counter-Attacking style means I would drop the Higher Defensive Line to a Standard One + lose the Offside Trap.

Change your Anchor Man to a Half Back so that you keep a 3 vs 2 situation at the back at all times. Change your FBs to WBs with instructions to Overlap on both flanks so that the RB is a WB (a) and the LB is a WB (s) -- that should keep their wingers pinned back further.

Make Cuisance a DLP instead of AP to try and draw their DMs further away from their own defensive line and can more easily receive the ball from defenders + the DM. Also, change Perisic to an IF (a) for more penetration.

See how that goes.

[Experienced Defender]

7 hours ago, Tryllefot said:

 

7 hours ago, Tryllefot said:

Should I have LOE, and or lower DL, or should I try and push them through their own net?

You should first improve your basic tactic. And while doing that, you also need to bear in mind that you are managing a top team like Bayern.  

Once you strike the right balance between attacking penetration and defensive solidity, you'll have a good primary tactic. Which will make any occasional tweaking far easier. 

In case you are interested, I can give you some more specific ideas on how you could set up a tactic for a team like Bayern and then explain the reasoning behind. 

[Tryllefot]

4 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

You should first improve your basic tactic. And while doing that, you also need to bear in mind that you are managing a top team like Bayern.  

Once you strike the right balance between attacking penetration and defensive solidity, you'll have a good primary tactic. Which will make any occasional tweaking far easier. 

In case you are interested, I can give you some more specific ideas on how you could set up a tactic for a team like Bayern and then explain the reasoning behind. 

Please do.

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, Tryllefot said:

Please do.

Okay, so this is your tactic: 

 

14 hours ago, Tryllefot said:

You are managing the strongest teams in Germany and one of the best in Europe (as well as the world). Logically, most opponents will look to play defensively against you, which means deep, tight and in a compact manner. So you need to find a way to break them down. Which logically means that your tactic/setup needs more penetration in attack, while at the same time making sure you are still enough defensively solid.

Let's now analyze your roles and duties. The left flank looks good - with a FB on attack and IW on support you have a natural overlap there. Which btw means that you should remove the Overlap left instruction (to avoid a tactical overkill as well as needless defensive risk). Alternatively, you can even use a WB on attack instead of FB (again without the overlap left TI). 

Let's now move to the opposite flank. Unlike the left one, your right flank is needlessly conservative in the sense that there is little support in attack from out wide - you use a FB on defend duty behind an AP and winger both on support duties. Which makes even less sense considering the fact that you have a holding DM, who is played in the most defense-minded DM role (anchor). 

Another area where I think you should reconsider your selection/distribution of roles is the central midfield.

But before we move to that particular point, I would like you to tell me if my previous suggestions perhaps gave you some ideas on how you could tweak your setup? Because I think going step by step will help you understand tactical principles better than by doing all at once.

 

[permanentquandary]

Since they only have 4 midfielders , two of which don't come inside much, you can consider experimenting with inverted wingbacks.

The strength of a 442 is on the flanks because they have 2 players covering each one. But you can't put more than 2 on each flank (i guess you could try lol) so it is hard to exploit there.

However you can exploit the middle, which will hopefully draw the wide midfielders centrally thereby exposing space on the flanks.

Food for thought

[Tryllefot]

12 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Okay, so this is your tactic: 

 

You are managing the strongest teams in Germany and one of the best in Europe (as well as the world). Logically, most opponents will look to play defensively against you, which means deep, tight and in a compact manner. So you need to find a way to break them down. Which logically means that your tactic/setup needs more penetration in attack, while at the same time making sure you are still enough defensively solid.

Let's now analyze your roles and duties. The left flank looks good - with a FB on attack and IW on support you have a natural overlap there. Which btw means that you should remove the Overlap left instruction (to avoid a tactical overkill as well as needless defensive risk). Alternatively, you can even use a WB on attack instead of FB (again without the overlap left TI). 

Let's now move to the opposite flank. Unlike the left one, your right flank is needlessly conservative in the sense that there is little support in attack from out wide - you use a FB on defend duty behind an AP and winger both on support duties. Which makes even less sense considering the fact that you have a holding DM, who is played in the most defense-minded DM role (anchor). 

Another area where I think you should reconsider your selection/distribution of roles is the central midfield.

But before we move to that particular point, I would like you to tell me if my previous suggestions perhaps gave you some ideas on how you could tweak your setup? Because I think going step by step will help you understand tactical principles better than by doing all at once.

 

I can see the right side beeing too conservative, and another thing I have been wondering is if the B2B ends up in the space where the IWS is supposed to operate. So maybe set the winger to attack, switch to FBs and swap the B2B with a ballwinning midfielder on supprt, or just a CMS? What I like is to create som space on the left side for Alaba and Cutinho, who will play there for the most part, but I'm not very certain of how, I don't know if TI "focus play down the right side" will make that happen.

Grateful for indepth inputs.

[Experienced Defender]

57 minutes ago, Tryllefot said:

another thing I have been wondering is if the B2B ends up in the space where the IWS is supposed to operate

Yes, that's a potential issue. From my experience, a BBM works better when he has a standard winger (on either duty) or IF on attack in front of him. Of course, you always need to take into account the rest of the setup as well. 

 

1 hour ago, Tryllefot said:

So maybe set the winger to attack, switch to FBs and swap the B2B with a ballwinning midfielder on supprt, or just a CMS

If you switch the IWsu to a winger on attack, then BBM can remain in MCL. The LB can then be played either as a FB on support or IWB on defend if you want more defensive solidity. However, given that you manage a top team, you may opt for a WB on support as a bit more risky option. There are other options as well, which would depend on what exactly you want to achieve and - again - how the rest is set up. 

If you have any additional ideas, we can discuss them of course  

1 hour ago, Tryllefot said:

What I like is to create som space on the left side for Alaba and Cutinho, who will play there for the most part, but I'm not very certain of how, I don't know if TI "focus play down the right side" will make that happen

Focus play down the left will not create space for the players, it will just encourage your team to use the left side a bit more when attacking (and slightly increase the mentality of your LB). But I would generally advise against using any of these "Focus play" instructions, because it can limit your attacking options for no good reason.

If you want to create space for the LB and AML, then I would recommend one of my favorite role combos (which also includes a natural overlap btw):

IWsu

            CAR/BWMsu

FB/WBat

The MCL could also be a DLP on support, but given that you already have a playmaker in MCR, I opted for either a carrilero or BWM instead.