Advanced playmaker (support) in the attacking midfield spot

[ryandormer]

Before the release of FM20, I am trying to experiment with a few different tactics in what will be my last FM19 save. My 4-1-2-3 tactic was incredibly successful, despite the fact that I think my players are better suited to 4-2-3-1. 

Given the isolation of the lone striker, I always had him on support, despite the fact that he was clearly more suited to an out-and-out number nine role:

He performed pretty well, but I think that's probably because was such a good player in general.

I also have an unbelievably good number ten type player, who I retrained to central midfield, and I tend to play him as a mezzala:

I cannot seem to get the combination of advanced playmaker (support) and advanced forward (or any other attacking forward) working very well. The advanced playmaker seems to come way too deep.

Has anybody gotten the advanced playmaker on support to operate more like a number ten, to link with the number nine properly?

[saware]

All dependent on other roles etc. From reading around, as well as trial & error, I’ve found AF works much better in a more direct, counter type tactic. Some advice I’ve seen on here seems to put Treq with a P, or PF/A, forward as a good alternative.

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, ryandormer said:

In a (possession-based) 4123, I would (probably) play this guy as a DLF on attack (although he can be a very good CF, but my experience is that CF as a role works better in systems such as 442, 4411 or flat 4141, where there is no more than 1 player in the attacking midfield strata). 

 

2 hours ago, ryandormer said:

I cannot seem to get the combination of advanced playmaker (support) and advanced forward (or any other attacking forward) working very well. The advanced playmaker seems to come way too deep.

First, a playmaker (role) naturally tends to drop deeper in order to be as involved in the build-up of play as possible, simply because it's the role of playmakers to organize their team's attacks. And on top of that, this particular player has the trait "Comes deep to get ball", which makes him even more inclined to drop deep.

In relation to you struggling to make an AP on support working well with an attack-duty lone striker, it's possible of course, but you need to look at your tactic as a whole, not just these two players (roles) in isolation. The guy from the screenshot can absolutely play as an AP on support, though he can also be a very good AP on attack or TQ. Which of these roles would suit him in an optimal way entirely depends on your overall tactical setup and style of play you are looking to implement.

[ryandormer]

Thanks for the responses. Do you think inside forwards on support may help, as they could move into the number ten zone when the playmaker drops deep?

[Experienced Defender]

1 minute ago, ryandormer said:

Do you think inside forwards on support may help, as they could move into the number ten zone when the playmaker drops deep?

In a 4231, I would prefer an IF on support on one flank - not on both sides, because I want a variety up front - if I have a PM in the AMC spot and an attack-duty striker. But again, a couple of roles do not make the whole picture. 

Also, when I use an AP in AMC, I always allow him to roam from position (PI) in order to give him as much freedom of movement as possible (in addition to the creative freedom he is already given by the very PM role) and thus make it more difficult for the opposition to mark him out of the game. Of course, besides passing, vision and good technical ability in general, an AP also need to be intelligent (decisions, off the ball, reasonable anticipation, composure and some flair as well). Thankfully, your man has all these in abundance 

[Armistice]

Yeah the AP comes deep to get the ball, way too deep for my liking, but what's worse is that he doesn't get in the hole when there's an attacking phase going on. He keeps staying deep basically on level with the CMs.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Armistice

[ryandormer]

Thanks for the responses, guys. I've just won the league with Arsenal again (fifth time in a row) with the 4-1-2-3, I think I'll do one last season  and try the 4-2-3-1. If I go with an attacking striker, playmaker number ten and one supporting inside forward, what would you suggest for the other flank? Winger? I have loads of right footed inside forward for the left flank, so it shouldn't be difficult to use a winger. Also, given how deep the playmaker tends to drop, would you suggest a more adventurous role for one of the 'holding' midfielders? 

Edited October 12, 2019 by ryandormer

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, ryandormer said:

I think I'll do one last season  and try the 4-2-3-1. If I go with an attacking striker, playmaker number ten and one supporting inside forward, what would you suggest for the other flank? Winger?

My personal preference in such type of 4231 setup is a winger on attack, but it does not mean that there aren't other possible options. It's just the one that's been working for me in an optimal way (generally speaking). To avoid any confusion, this is what I'm talking about (regarding the front 4 only):

PO/PFat

IFsu            APsu          Wat

[ryandormer]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

PO/PFat

IFsu            APsu          Wat

That looks pretty good. Does your right sided central midfielder get forward a little more? I imagine with the AP dropping quite deep, and the winger getting forward and wide, there could be some space in the right channel to exploit. Perhaps something like:

PO/PF(a)

IF(s)         AP(s)         W(a)

CM(d)     BBM(s)

WB(a)     CD(c)     CD(s)     FB(s)

[Experienced Defender]

4 minutes ago, ryandormer said:

PO/PF(a)

IF(s)         AP(s)         W(a)

CM(d)     BBM(s)

WB(a)     CD(c)     CD(s)     FB(s)

This setup looks pretty good IMHO, except for the LB. I would be a bit more cautious in a top-heavy (bottom-easy) system like 4231. WB on attack might be overly attack-minded, so my preference would be FB on attack - it's still the same duty (attack) but a more conservative role. Btw, that's why I prefer 4123 to 4231 - it offers more options and room for maneuver. 

 

8 minutes ago, ryandormer said:

Does your right sided central midfielder get forward a little more?

You mean in terms of the player trait or PI or role/duty?

Btw, in this particular case, I would also prefer BBM as the RCM. If I were to be a bit more adventurous - provided I have good enough players including defense-wise - I may even consider a mezzala on support duty with an IWB behind him (on defend or support duty, depending on how confident I am in both his and my team's general abilities). But the mezzala can come into the equation only if I manage a really strong team.