Inside Forwards and Wing Backs tactic help

[reggerbob]

Hey everybody, I'm pretty new to fm and just finished my 3rd season with Roma. I've completely scrapped my tactic because I keep underperforming. I would appreciate it if someone could give me a good base to start with. I'd prefer having Florenzi attack down the right flank with Cengiz Under as an inside forward on the right. I have a transfer window to work with and its looking like I'll need a true winger to cross to Schick, but starting El Shaarawy and paling with 2 wingback is also an option. I've mostly been playing a 4123 with a wide variety of roles in the middle and Cristante can't seem to break past a 6.9 rating despite being my highest valued midfielder. A huge inspiration for me is Klopp's Gegenpressing, being a Dortmund fan but I don't think I have the right squad for that. Any help is appreciated!

[Experienced Defender]

I analyzed your players and immediately got the idea how I would play with them. I would also opt for 4123 (or 4141dm wide, as the game calls it). I don't know what is your setup of roles and duties, but mine would be this one:

DLFat

IFsu                                      IFat

MEZat      DLPsu

HB

WBsu     CDco    CDde     WBsu

SKsu/de

Players and player instructions I would use:

GK/SKsu(de) - Rajkovic - no PIs

DL/WBsu - Pellegrini - cross more often

DR/WBsu - Florenzi - no PIs

DCL/CDco - Lascelles - no PIs

DCR/CDde - Bastoni - stay wider

DM/HB - Locatelli - mark tighter, more direct passing

MCL/MEZat - Cristante (Riccardi) - mark tighter, close down more (max)

MCR/DLPsu - Tonali - mark tighter

AML/IFsu - El Shaarawy - sit narrower, close down more (max)

AMR/IFat - Under - roam from position, close down more (max)

ST/DLFat - Schick - close down more (max)

What mentality and team instructions I would use in the primary (basic) tactic:

Positive

- shorter passing, play out of defence, higher tempo, (slightly) narrower width, be more expressive, overlap right

- counter, distribute to CBs and FBs

- higher DL, higher LOE (optionally Use tighter marking)

Now that I presented my favorite primary tactic for a team like yours, you are welcome to ask me whatever question you might have in relation to my choice of roles, duties, instructions or anything that may interest you 

 

[reggerbob]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

I analyzed your players and immediately got the idea how I would play with them. I would also opt for 4123 (or 4141dm wide, as the game calls it). I don't know what is your setup of roles and duties, but mine would be this one:

DLFat

IFsu                                      IFat

MEZat      DLPsu

HB

WBsu     CDco    CDde     WBsu

SKsu/de

Players and player instructions I would use:

GK/SKsu(de) - Rajkovic - no PIs

DL/WBsu - Pellegrini - cross more often

DR/WBsu - Florenzi - no PIs

DCL/CDco - Lascelles - no PIs

DCR/CDde - Bastoni - stay wider

DM/HB - Locatelli - mark tighter, more direct passing

MCL/MEZat - Cristante (Riccardi) - mark tighter, close down more (max)

MCR/DLPsu - Tonali - mark tighter

AML/IFsu - El Shaarawy - sit narrower, close down more (max)

AMR/IFat - Under - roam from position, close down more (max)

ST/DLFat - Schick - close down more (max)

What mentality and team instructions I would use in the primary (basic) tactic:

Positive

- shorter passing, play out of defence, higher tempo, (slightly) narrower width, be more expressive, overlap right

- counter, distribute to CBs and FBs

- higher DL, higher LOE (optionally Use tighter marking)

Now that I presented my favorite primary tactic for a team like yours, you are welcome to ask me whatever question you might have in relation to my choice of roles, duties, instructions or anything that may interest you 

 

I have actually been using a very similar tactic to the one you proposed, with the only real differences being tempo and the use of a half back. I guess I don't really understand when to use slower tempo and when to speed it up. Also with Riccardi not quite suited to scoring like a Mezalla should I be looking to convert him to a DLP or can I play him at AP in that DLP spot, potentially moving the striker up to AF as well?

Also I'm confused to why Bastoni should be set wider, is that because the HB role will cover the center well enough? The HB role isn't available with anything other than shorter passing

With counter should I also counter press? I notice all the close down more PIs 

Also won't the mezalla, inside forward, and wing back all take up a similar space on the left? Would a box to box player do a similar job?

[reggerbob]

Where do I need to sign players the most? Depth is only an issue on the wings, and I'm reluctant to sign CBs or CMs because of all the youth prospects I have in those positions. Should I continue buying for the future or is there a position I need to improve now?

[Experienced Defender]

10 hours ago, reggerbob said:

I guess I don't really understand when to use slower tempo and when to speed it up

There is no fixed rule when you should use lower or higher tempo. It depends on how you want to play. I opted for higher tempo here because I think your players are good enough both technically and mentally to pass the ball and generally move the play forward a bit faster. But you can opt to play more patient and possession-based football, so you can leave tempo to the default (medium) setting. Tempo - like all other settings - is also affected by mentality. When you change mentality, everything else automatically changes to a greater or smaller extent.

 

10 hours ago, reggerbob said:

Also with Riccardi not quite suited to scoring like a Mezalla

Not sure I understood this. Not suited to scoring goals when playing as a mezzala? Or what?

 

10 hours ago, reggerbob said:

Also I'm confused to why Bastoni should be set wider, is that because the HB role will cover the center well enough?

It's just my preference to have the CB on the side of the more attacking fullback staying wider to provide a bit of wide option in the defensive third in the build-up phase, but it's not necessary. So you don't have to tell him to stay wider, that's just an option.

11 hours ago, reggerbob said:

The HB role isn't available with anything other than shorter passing

Okay, then leave him on short passing. It's probably because of the Play out of defence. 

 

11 hours ago, reggerbob said:

With counter should I also counter press? I notice all the close down more PIs

Counter and counter-press are totally different instructions, so you should not confuse them. I opted for the Counter(attack) because you have players who are absolutely capable of executing it when a good opportunity occurs. And sometimes if your team cannot break down a disciplined opposition defense, counters may prove a useful attacking weapon 

Counter-press on the other hand is a defensive instruction in the defensive transition phase. You can use it, but bear in mind that it can be risky and leave your defense exposed. But if you (want to) use counter-press anyway, then do not increase closing down/pressing of individual players. Advice: do not use counter-press against strong teams (like Juve, Napoli...), because they are good enough to pass their way through it and then your defense is in all sorts of trouble.

11 hours ago, reggerbob said:

Also won't the mezalla, inside forward, and wing back all take up a similar space on the left? Would a box to box player do a similar job?

They will - an should - operate close to each other, but that's good. Not only that they can better support each other in the final third (especially when playing against a packed defense), but it can also help you create overloads and thus free up space for others to attack. 

[Experienced Defender]

10 hours ago, reggerbob said:

Where do I need to sign players the most?

I think your central defense could be a bit stronger. It's not bad, but is not on par with your midfield and attack.

 

10 hours ago, reggerbob said:

Depth is only an issue on the wings, and I'm reluctant to sign CBs or CMs because of all the youth prospects I have in those positions. Should I continue buying for the future or is there a position I need to improve now?

I don't have enough info on your squad to give you any more concrete suggestions. 

[reggerbob]

Update on how this tactic is doing. In 10 games I've only been able to score more than 1 goal once. The Mezalla role has routinely underperformed with 6.5 rating being common. I've been able to tie the top sides and even beat Barcelona with minor tweaks, but beating mid table and lower sides has been difficult

[Experienced Defender]

33 minutes ago, reggerbob said:

Update on how this tactic is doing. In 10 games I've only been able to score more than 1 goal once. The Mezalla role has routinely underperformed with 6.5 rating being common. I've been able to tie the top sides and even beat Barcelona with minor tweaks, but beating mid table and lower sides has been difficult

Do you watch matches and make tweaks based on what you see, or just let the game play and wait for the result? Because the problem is that different opposition will play in different way, so you also need to adapt. For example, if I see that my players are making too many adventurous moves (e.g. speculative passes), I'll remove the "Be more expressive" TI. 

There is also a very small tweak that can make a notable difference in how you play - change the striker's duty to support (DLFsu instead of DLFat) and add the "Work ball into box". That will make your attacks more patient and focused, and thus make the tactic a bit more possession-based. These are just a couple of examples of how I tweak my tactics when it does not work as I initially expected.

Against very defensive sides that you find hard to break down, you can use on of the fullbacks as an IWB on attack duty, just take care to ensure he is covered defensively by someone from the central midfield. That would add another dimension to your attacks, making them less predictable and putting additional pressure on opposition defense.