Roaming Playmaker vs. Advanced PLaymaker in 4141

[beverage1982]

Hey all. I'm working on a recreation of Steve Bruce's current Villa 4141. 

I'm having a lot of problems getting it right. Most notably in the midfield. My main issue is Jack Grealish's role. This video seems to suggest Roaming Playmaker, which I think suits the idea of creating overloads down the right, it also would free me up to try and give Hourihane an attack duty to try and get him scoring more goals like in real life. But inherently it feels imbalanced.

Below are my two set ups, any feedback greatly appreciated. I'm also finding the mentality / structure a nightmare of course Bruce is on the surface a Structured kind of a guy but I see far more fluidity than that in this current villa team so leaning more towards Standard FLuid. 

 

 

 

 

 

[z464]

Here you go . 

 

 

How does it differ to other central midfield roles?

Despite the name, Roaming Playmaker is far different and more complex to the other Playmaker roles, deep-lying and advanced.

A deep-lying playmaker virtually concentrates solely on setting up attacking moves from deep while advanced playmakers are given license to affect matters in the final third while liberating them defensively.

Essentially, the Roaming Playmaker is an amalgamation of different roles, with attributes required for a Box-to-Box midfielder, Deep-Lying Playmaker and Advanced Playmaker, all required.

One final point to consider is how best to utilise a Roaming Playmaker in your team. Given the all-action nature of the role, it is perhaps best for a central midfield three as opposed to a two.

Read more at http://www.squawka.com/news/football-manager-2017s-roaming-playmaker-role-explained-and-the-seven-best-examples-of-it/905229#GChXBZ1Fr25dTBAr.99

[Guest]

http://www.squawka.com/news/football-manager-2016-player-roles-explained-the-roaming-playmaker/566433#E52eaTu1v1jRleC5.97

 

There's an article on RPM, it's Cleon's stuff so it's 100% factual.

 

There's an AVFC 4141 thread from another experienced FM player.

There's a lot of interesting issues discussed here, with a special focus on getting the CM(a) further up the field. That may interest you since it explains the importance of (fluid) team shape (however, it's second to mentality in this regard).

 

 

Personally, when using a lone striker formations such as this, when you only have 1 player in opposition area, I'd go for a RPM instead of AP bcs AP will try "more risky passes" too often. The RPM does not have this PI hard coded and he's more of a runner. This means he'll take his time to run with the ball up the field. Him doing this will provide time for the rest of your team to go up the field too to support your striker and catch up with the play. The AP will most likely just make a through pass to the striker too early while the rest of the team will be unable to catch up with the play.

 

[z464]

15 hours ago, D_LO_ said:

I would argue for that reason and the ground the role covers that it's just, if not more suited to a two man midfield with the right player and support role/duty next to him. Two is easier to cover than three so there needs to be an element of flexibility in the positioning of at least one of the CMs I feel. 

 

The article is a decentish read but a couple more important attributes to the roaming play-maker role not mentioned imo are balance, for manoeuverability and off the ball, being available for the pass is key.

 

 

I take it the article is stating the listed players as possible roaming playmakers in-game as opposed to it being roles they take up in real life. Unsurprisingly really Emre Can's attributes aren't really appropriate, seen it's not a role you'd associate him with as his decisions, balance and off the ball are average. His technicals aren't particularly great either. So he's not a great example tbh. 

 

NB: this relates to the FM17 screens

IMO roaming playmaker is next level of box to box .

When roaming get the ball they will try to run the ball from deep to the front first and create risky pass when they needed. 

Pogba is one of the best example .

 

When advanced get the ball they will try to look for the teammates first and less defensive . 

[beverage1982]

3 hours ago, charisma_charisma said:

http://www.squawka.com/news/football-manager-2016-player-roles-explained-the-roaming-playmaker/566433#E52eaTu1v1jRleC5.97

 

There's an article on RPM, it's Cleon's stuff so it's 100% factual.

 

There's an AVFC 4141 thread from another experienced FM player.

There's a lot of interesting issues discussed here, with a special focus on getting the CM(a) further up the field. That may interest you since it explains the importance of (fluid) team shape (however, it's second to mentality in this regard).

 

 

Personally, when using a lone striker formations such as this, when you only have 1 player in opposition area, I'd go for a RPM instead of AP bcs AP will try "more risky passes" too often. The RPM does not have this PI hard coded and he's more of a runner. This means he'll take his time to run with the ball up the field. Him doing this will provide time for the rest of your team to go up the field too to support your striker and catch up with the play. The AP will most likely just make a through pass to the striker too early while the rest of the team will be unable to catch up with the play.

 

Thanks I'd completely forgotten about this thread.

 

I think stepping up the mentality ladder is the way forward but as a naturally conservative player I'm nervous. Especially with John Terry at the back. He has zero pace so I suspect I'll have to drop the D-line to deeper, however I worry about inviting too much pressure that way. Perhaps I could combine it with pressing PI's in my midfield to provide an effective screen. 

The Whoscored breakdown suggests more direct passing and tackle harder could be good fits too.  I think the width talked about is naturally present in Control, and I'll choose to ignore the through balls for the moment. 

So I'm thinking.

Control / Flexible

Drop deeper, direct, tackle harder. 

 

[Park]

I've only watched the 2nd leg v Boro, of Villa's games this season, but in that game Grealish was the left central midfielder with Hourihane to his right. This would also give him more space to roam into, with width maintained on the left rather than bumping into Snodgrass on the right. (Although you say you'd like to create overloads on the right, which might work.) I think Roaming Playmaker is right for him and if you find he's getting tired in games you could change him to a more static role.

[felley]

16 hours ago, D_LO_ said:

In RL Pogba has been very poor so I'd argue he isn't nor should he be entrusted with such a prominent, flexible role. If talking about FM I suspect he's good in-game at the role but he shouldn't be, his decisions aren't great and arguably should be lower. I've personally hit it even harder in my edited database. Tbh a lot of his problems in FM terms would or should concern some of the hidden mentals (actually might look into that and edit that myself also). Technically and physically he speaks for himself.

I don't want to derail the thread but 6 goals and 11 assists from defensive midfield isn't too shabby. Don't let the media form your opinion of him for you.

[beverage1982]

ANYWAY.... back on topic

I'm struggling still with this. Control feels too open at the back - especially with JT's pace. Standard feels too blunt in attack. 

[FlairRA]

11 hours ago, beverage1982 said:

ANYWAY.... back on topic

I'm struggling still with this. Control feels too open at the back - especially with JT's pace. Standard feels too blunt in attack. 

Have you tried playing JT in a stopper role, then using a cover player to work with him? It's his natural role as well, with his high Aggression and Bravery he can definitely play that role and start counter-attacks through intercepting the ball. Plus using a fast covering player will compensate for his lack of pace. 

[beverage1982]

So I've had some progress with this. After much trial and error I fell back on 'Counter' my old reliable. It worked. A few TI and PI tweaks and I had the tactic purring. 

The season ended in style. We played how I wanted and had some great achievements. Now the Premier League beckons....

Thanks for all of the help!